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Has the game changed? What's going on between Miscavige and his lawyers and PIs?

Veda

Sponsor
Believe me, in the United States, people who are into guns do this kind of stuff all the time. These are toys to them. Just google "make your own suppressor" and you will find an entire community of people who do this for sh*ts & giggles. In fact it's legal to own a suppressor in WI, just not an unregistered homemade one.

I guess, to your credit, the fact that it was homemade suggests he intended to use it. Easier to get rid of some pcv shit that a registered suppressor...

Still though, these guys are steeped in gun culture.

I'm undecided.

Having dealt with PIs hired by Scientology Inc., personally, I've not found them to be nice people.

How do we know they're steeped in the gun culture for "giggles"?

Maybe they use the guns for something not nice, or like to imagine doing so.

A silencer, especially a non registered silencer, stinks of bad intentions.

I don't see the point in jumping to these guys' defense.

Do you know who they're working for now?
 

MrNobody

Who needs merits?
<snip>
I'd like to know who it is that makes silencers "for fun."
<snip>

Well, Germany might be a bit different with the more restrictive gun laws and all that, but I could list quite a few gun-nuts who own quite a few illegal weapons. Machine guns, DIY-silencers, DIY 1-shot guns that look like regular ball-pens, boomerangs sharper than a razor knife, the whole program.

Many (if not most) of 'em are just slightly deluded weirdos, not a real risk for anybody.
 

mawena

Patron with Honors
Having dealt with PIs hired by Scientology Inc., personally, I've not found them to be nice people.

How do we know they're steeped in the gun culture for "giggles"?

Maybe they use the guns for something not nice, or like to imagine doing so.

A silencer, especially a non registered silencer, stinks of bad intentions.

I don't see the point in jumping to these guys' defense.

Do you know who they're working for now?

I'm not defending them these guys suck, I just know a lot of people who do the same dumb stuff and never intend to use it.

OK so I looked up the lawyer who represented the younger PI. This guy also rep'd some big time white collar criminals. I don't really know lawyers well enough but he does look like a high-powered criminal attorney. And he was able to get that guy a sweet sweet deal with no fine or jail time.

All evidence points to the fact that yes, these guys are nasty little PIs. Their change of heart or moral hesitation or whatever is a bit well timed considering he was under arrest and facing 6 years...

So ya I think it's reasonable to assume that they had the guns for more than just show. I mean, they could have left them at home, they didn't.

Do you know who the work for now? Have they been heard of since. It's clear that they're being protected from up on high.
 

Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
Believe me, in the United States, people who are into guns do this kind of stuff all the time. These are toys to them. Just google "make your own suppressor" and you will find an entire community of people who do this for sh*ts & giggles. In fact it's legal to own a suppressor in WI, just not an unregistered homemade one.

I guess, to your credit, the fact that it was homemade suggests he intended to use it. Easier to get rid of some pcv shit that a registered suppressor...

Still though, these guys are steeped in gun culture.

I'm undecided.
I've known people who would have legally target practiced more often on their own property but they didn't want the noise to bother their neighbors. It's not difficult for me to imagine someone like that trying a silencer. This father & son team on the other hand, were they just being dumb to bring a silencer and all those guns & ammo on a case? That's the most likely explanation in my opinion.
 

secretiveoldfag

Silver Meritorious Patron
This is a very interesting commentary on the Affirmations, but tl:dr so it might be useful to have the summary.
From http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/hubbard...s-examined.htm

UB: SUMMARY

There is little question about LRH suffering from paranoic schizophrenia at the time he wrote the above. Predominant symtoms are auditive and likely visual hallucinations together with numbed emotions , suicidal thoughts , extremely low selfworth, impotence , thought disturbances and problems with articulation and memory. His fatigue and indolence together with the anhedonia is the typical low energy , low vigilance and numbed emotions found in the domaine of so called negative symtoms in this disease . He is fighting a hard battle with inner psychological conflicts, balancing between the depressed state with suicidal thoughts and the Godlike, allmighty powerful "chosen" one with special gifts and blessed with an inner "Guardian". The Church of Scientology and its methods is merely the reflection of this seriously sick mans inner world. Constantly on guard against perceived critique and attacks from the hostile surrounding environments. Obsessed with money , not only as a mean of survival but as an instrument of power and evidence of success.

Ulf Brettstam Senior psychiatrist

The organization clearly is schizophrenic and paranoid, and this bizarre combination seems to be a reflection of its founder [L. Ron Hubbard]. The evidence portrays a man who has been virtually a pathological liar when it comes to his history, background and achievements. The writings and documents in evidence additionally reflect his egoism, greed, avarice, lust for power, and vindictiveness and aggressiveness against persons perceived by him to be disloyal or hostile."

-- Judge Paul G. Breckenridge, Jr., 6/20/84 (Scientology v. Armstrong, affirmed on appeal 232 Cal.App.3rd 1060, 283 Cal.Rptr. 917.)
 
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Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
I work with the tools I have. You want me to have better tools? Fine, buy me some! Want me to PM you my mailing address? :biggrin:



:lol: No, 36 pages are not brainstorming. Brainstorming is the listing of different ideas and concepts, each one of 'em nicely boiled down to an easily digestable 3-liner.

Apart from the time it'd take to write, I'd have no problem with writing a 2 million pages concept paper about how to properly dissolve Scientology, save world hunger and make dolphins speak, but who would ever want to read it?

Right, that's exactly the reason why, so far, nobody has ever had a meaningful conversation with a dolphin. :coolwink:

Why not just skip it then instead of complaining about it?
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
I think the guy was being honest about the guns and the silencer. For one thing he doesn't seem to know the difference between a silencer and a flash suppressor. I think his story that they were staying in cheap motels to keep costs down and he had stuff stolen in the past. Those guns are worth several $1,000s and he's correct in saying that if those guns were stolen and used in a crime he would be in hot water. Nothing odd about that.

I hope no one assumes that those guys were there to shoot DM's dad, that sounds a little far-fetched. If DM's dad were to wind up dead tomorrow that would be a lot of heat on the church. I don't think those guys are crazy or stupid enough to try that.

I listened to two hours plus of the tapes. I think they are who they say they are or were until they got arrested and questioned. Hope they saved some of that money. But yeah it makes no sense whatsoever that they were armed like that to take out an 80 year old man.
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Miscavige has multiple lawyers. One was visible. Are these guys still working for Scientology? If not, who replaced them?



I can see the son was playing innocent before the police.

I'd like to know who it is that makes silencers "for fun."

Having a silencer makes a statement all by itself.

As for why they were hired, I never said they were hired to kill any one.
Who makes silencers for fun?
Gun nutters..I know a few..just because they can make one, they do.

I have not listened to the recording yet but I will be a snob and say this: the PI was a "correctional officer", basically a prison hall monitor with a highschool diploma.. Not even a cop, let alone a detective! It doesn't take much to be a prison officer..and it takes even less to be a PI.
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hello MissWog. As you recall, I touched on this myself just recently. You have made a very thoughtful assessment. I have no idea if official church Trolls are posting here. My point was that it would make sense if that strategy was adopted. Sowing dissent and mistrust and deflecting rhetoric was very prominent in the writings of Sun Tzu going back to 300 BC. They would insert agents to join the rebellion and stir them up to the point where they made a catastrophic mistake or started to persecute their own people and lost support. Now it is as easy as clicking a mouse. I read somewhere that DM has a copy of the book, The Art of War, and I have read it myself. But my greater point is that people doing this out of spite for anything Scientology related inadvertently serves the goals of management to deny and disrupt unauthorized venues for discourse. There are injustices being committed by the hierarchy and most people regardless of their status do not have the resources to do anything about it except to peel the layer off of the onion slowly and a little at a time in front of the entire world to the point where the church understands that everything they do can and will ultimately be scrutinized in the arena of public opinion. This can even include the experiences of someone whose job was to be an official Lurker or Troll. The floodgates are open.

I know for a fact that Scientology staff went directly into the legal firms that provided service to the church going back as far as the breakup of the Guardian's Office. Church legal representatives are not just good at learning Scientology policy and how to spin it - they can teach it. They have been integral to the highest managerial strata for decades and for practical purposes they are private legal firms only on paper. This should surprise no one. Even the so called private PI firms that are used to keep the church field operations at arms length are most likely manned by former staff. There is a 50 year history of overlapping staff and field activity. It is multi-generational. The Roman Catholic Church can be expected to use their most devout laity legal and investigative firms and this is no different. It also means that their legal council's strategic thinking may be unable to operate outside of the same cloistered church view to the extent that they cannot help the church reassess their self destructive trajectory. In other words, its baked into the cake.

However, all this does call for a certain diligence on the Ex Scientology community to recognize and handle Troll like behavior in their forums if they want sensible people to participate. For example, non-Scientologists may want to come here to express their animosity towards the church and Ex Scientologists may go to non-Scientology sites to do the same but both parties should be respectful of the primary purposes of each other's forums.
I promise to read this later..I'm too tipsy at the moment..but thank you for writing to me!!
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Having dealt with PIs hired by Scientology Inc., personally, I've not found them to be nice people.

How do we know they're steeped in the gun culture for "giggles"?

Maybe they use the guns for something not nice, or like to imagine doing so.

A silencer, especially a non registered silencer, stinks of bad intentions.

I don't see the point in jumping to these guys' defense.

Do you know who they're working for now?
They just do..and yes, for giggles..for macho man giggles..to show their buddies back at the trailor park while their children are playing with firecrackers and they proudly hang a confederate flag from their pickup truck.

Just because they can.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
..

I'm too tipsy at the moment...




drunk.jpg
areyoudrunk.jpg
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
No, when I'm drunk I'll be in bed with the room spinning.. But it is early to be feeling this high!
Just being honest, my reading comprehension is about as good as my driving skills at the moment..so I'm not even going to try doing either.

Keeping it light..but..I can talk redneck gun nuts, I have plenty of experience with those!
 

Veda

Sponsor
They just do..and yes, for giggles..for macho man giggles..to show their buddies back at the trailor park while their children are playing with firecrackers and they proudly hang a confederate flag from their pickup truck.

Just because they can.


Thanks. I feel much better now. They're just a pair of good ol' boys

tucker-dale-vs-evil-image-2.jpg

who work for this guy.
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:)
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Concerning the likely psychiatric ilnesses of LRH,

Here is what professor Kent (sociology) had to say about LRH mental\personnality disorders.

http://npspartners.nl/pics_act/malignantnarcisme.pdf

My understanding is now that LRH was probably struggling with both

-mental illness ( likely a bi-polar disorder that worsen into psychotics peaks)
-personnality disorder (malignant narcissist)

A mental ilness would not explain his pervert\ cruel behavior pattern , lacking any empathy toward others, (evident in his policies)
a narcissism evolving into malignancy could better explain!

There was also a psychiatrist (woman) who also gave an interview about her take on LRH - I can't find it! (she passed away years ago)

* I caught a radio broadcast with people suffering from severe mental ilnesses like schizophrenia and they were talking about sociopath murderers..they said that a mental ilness would not explain either the lack of compassion or cruelty (unless a severe psychotic crisis)
The majority of them said they would either never hurt anyone even into a psychosis or only defend themselve from a perceived danger when encountering a peak of a psychotic episode. ...:confused2:

The many deep depressions he encountered and space opera\time track hallucinations may be symptoms (also there was a heavy drug component to trigger it) of such mental ilnesses going into psychosis.

Drugs will worsen any mental issue, and narcissism often worsen when people age.
 
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MrNobody

Who needs merits?
Why not just skip it then instead of complaining about it?

Oh no, not another one of the "close your eyes, stick fingers in your ears and sing LALALA" crowd. :omg:

Look, if I could only see how that would help to change/improve anything, I'd do exactly that. In fact I DO do that often enough.

I kinda like EC and she does definitely have some good points, but what does it help when these valuable points are buried in an ocean of words? That's the reason why I just skip many of her posts - her points are most certainly there and valid, but buried under too many words.

I could have said nothing and continue skipping her posts, making sure that nothing ever changes, but I decided to say something potentially helpful, so sue me.

Oh, and before someone else mentions it: No, I'm not a skilled writer and often enough it's a damn struggle to get my own points across. Sometimes I even fail in that endeavor, but I keep trying.

You don't like that? Well, then feel free to take your own advice. :p
 
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