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ESMB and The Freezone - let's have it out!

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Terril park

Sponsor
How true. I guess admittingly part of my exit therapy has been posting against these FZ cult members.

I have no problems with that. Keep at it. :)

But then again, I feel worse sometimes knowing that not only do we have to dismantle the C of S but now there IS another group out there doing people harm with false promises of cultist technilogy....

There has been no data on the internet that I know of where
abuse has been done by FZers. You know some?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
As to "word clearing", top students at any school have used dictionaries for centuries! Hubbard did not invent dictionaries, he just found a way to use them to further his own purposes of confusing the shit out of people so they wouldn't notice his hand in their pocket.

Quite so.

However Hubbard stole the authorship of study tech from the Berners.
So says Alan. Is he lying?

Here's a question:-

Why would a " conman" be so interested in peoples literacy??
 

Escalus

Patron Meritorious
Quite so.

However Hubbard stole the authorship of study tech from the Berners.
So says Alan. Is he lying?

Here's a question:-

Why would a " conman" be so interested in peoples literacy??

Word clearing isn't the problem. The problem is the idea that the only reason someone disagrees with the tech is because they don't get all the words.

Where in the cult is there a place for someone who DOES get the words, but disagrees?

What do they call that person?
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Here's a question:-

Why would a "conman" be so interested in peoples literacy??
Hubturd had ensured that they didn't really become literate. That was done by all the 'authority' and 'ethics'. Persuation, or conditioning, to absolute loyalty. The 'wartime' group mentality... Even with 'treason' right there in the 'regulations', smack dab in the middle of peacetime!

:yes:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Hubturd had ensured that they didn't really become literate. That was done by all the 'authority' and 'ethics'. Persuation, or conditioning, to absolute loyalty. The 'wartime' group mentality... Even with 'treason' right there in the 'regulations', smack dab in the middle of peacetime!

:yes:

There is no 'peacetime' without the Clear Planet. Nor sanity or freedom for 'men of good will' (the Scientologists) to run things they way the 'should' be run. (by Scientology)

Zinj
 

Boldgirl

Patron Meritorious
well whoops... my apologies to you!



No no no, the phrase that springs to mind is "gullible twits" or naifs.



some people think they have made gains with rastafarianism, does that mean you will be dreadlocking and smoking the ganja?



How do you account for the fact that over 80% of the people who try scientology think that it is total rubbish?

But to answer your question - because they are gullible twits who have no idea how to think critically. In a nutshell.

I notice that everything you refer to revolves around the mysterious "making gains" - so what, exactly do you mean with the phrase "making gains"?

People believe in Scientology for the same reasons they believe in quack "cures". They do not realize that they are going to change - with or without the "cure". People do not stay the same, they adapt, they learn most people improve in their capability to handle their life. Not all, of course, but most.

You see CS - let's take our little back and forth - you have dismissed the concept of the "Clear" as outlined by Hubbard. Now Hubbard said that not only had he cleared people but that he had trained others to do it and had seen and noted the results. According to Hubbard this was observed fact it was supposedly as thoroughly researched as any engineering.

But you, apparently, think Hubbard was either nuts or a liar. Wanna pick a runway and set yourself down?

So - if the work that started this whole thing is wrong - why would you think that anything else this charlatan laid his pudgy fingers on was any better? He produced not one shred of proof, Scientologists as a group are only as effective as any other fanatical group of brainwashed devotees, in fact the Moonies and the Hare Krishnas appear to be doing much better than Scientology.

Now, I do not want to stop you from enjoying the "gains" you get from whatever it is that you do - Pilotism?? Oggology? OC sufferers get "gains "from washing their hands multiple times for example or high functioning autistics can get "gains" from counting and I do not wish to stop them either at least not until there is some sort of cure. I don't want to stop you getting those "gains" , in fact , more power to your elbow but if you start posting on a public forum about them then I assume that you are up for debating them otherwise why talk about them - unless you are trying to suck other people in?

And that's where I draw the line - Scientologists and those who support the various parts of it are dangerous because they are total amateurs, but they think they know something.

Most scientologists know absolutely nothing about therapy, mental illness, psychiatry and psychology beyond what they have read from Hubbard or in Freedumb Magazine. They read 4 articles by HUbbard and suddenly think they know more than any "psych" who ever lived.

This makes them dangerous. In the same way that I would not want to see a child playing with razor blades I do not wish to see Scientologists doing anything in the field of therapy to someone else - they can do whatever they like to themselves.

But if you just want to sit around in dark rooms "blanketing" others - well hey, be my guest.

You articulated so well what I really think as well. thanks
 

asagai

Patron Meritorious
Quite so.

However Hubbard stole the authorship of study tech from the Berners.
So says Alan. Is he lying?

Here's a question:-

Why would a " conman" be so interested in peoples literacy??

The fact that you need to ask the question shows how little you understand what Ron did! Read 1984 with reference to "newspeak" and "doublethink" and that might give you a clue as to why a conman might be interested in "literacy"
 

Boldgirl

Patron Meritorious
Let me take a swing at this one.

First of all - what does "all foggy" mean? When I went to Newcastle University there were many words I did not understand but I never felt foggy, except in the student union bars. Before Scientology I never, not once, experienced any of the "phenomena" so lovingly described by Hubbard to do with study problems.

So - first of all - the student would have to be trained into having those reactions. Much like scientologists are trained into all sorts of responses that they wouldn't normally have.

Secondly if they were studying a Hubbardic work then, according to KSW, they are merely supposed to be duplicating it - not arguing about it. And there, in a nutshell, is why Study Tech does not work. It was originally conceived of as a way to force scientologists to not argue, not debate but instead, passively acquiesce to whatever they are being told. After all, if you did not understand what Hubbard had written it could not possibly be because it was un - understandable rubbish - oh no it had to be because

a) You did not understand the full definition of the word "the" "an" or "or" even though you had been using them your whole life.
then
b) Failing that, you are full of false data
then
c) failing that you are a heavy drug case
then
d) failing that - you have many overts
then
e) failing that - - you have many MWH which is why you are now trying to run away from this insanity called study tech
then
f) You are an SP.

Not once in that admittedly OTT sequence is there room for

"Hubbard did not know his arse from his elbow"

The whole concepts of a) supervisor and b) study tech are false.

Students need teachers. People who understand the material and, if necessary can engage in Socratic discourse to lead the student out of ignorance (from ex- duco - to lead out of, educate) and into the light of education.

A- FREAKIN- MEN......AMEN....WHOOHOO!!! In english, yes -I agree and love the way you worded the argument...better than me!
 
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