Yesterday, Today and ?????

[phenomanon]

I have had teenager drama all week. I'll trade you.

ogod, I know how you feel, I've raised 2 of 'em.
I never found a way to break thru their dramatizations, but I wholeheartedly wish you the best of luck and good judgement with them.

 

[DeeAnna]

Quite so.

You're a never-in DeeAnna. I don't mean that in any derogatory sense, but you have absolutely no subjective reality on the insidious nature of scientology thought control. Yes, you've read thousands of posts here, but it's just not the same I assure you.

Trying to 'talk sense' to a scientologist is like banging your head against a wall. They have a fixed notion of where you are coming from and a predetermined set of thought-processes to deal with it that ensures they will cling on to their mind set no matter what you say.

Phenomanon knows this all too well. There's absolutely no point in ARGUING about it. Maybe one day he will come to his senses like most of us here on ESMB eventually do, and maybe he won't. It's a road you travel on your own.

Oh, no problem, stratty. I agree with you. There is no one who has not lived it who could ever possibly understand it.

I would have to say that I can't understand or relate to how any couple can maintain a good, supportive and open relationship with each other when one of them is "off the rails" about something. Be it $cientology or whatever.

When one of the partner's core belief system is diametrically opposite the other's, there is bound to be some tension involved. And when it comes to the mindfuck of $cientology, with its "you're either with us or you're an SP" - well, where is there for that kind of a relationship to go? At best you have one person walking on eggshells, never being able to express their true feelings to the other about something that is having a huge impact on their life together. Not a very good situation.

I feel bad for anyone in this situation. That's all.

 

[phenomanon]

Wearing my old OTIII-sup hat for a moment, and remembering some discussions on a FZ board ten years ago, I would guess that he's going to run into trouble and not find many, if any. The OTIII C/S (they don't bother with sups, unless that's changed) may do a correction list, then when that doesn't do much, will tell him he can attest as "obviously his NOTS case need handling" or some such out-tech (per Hubbard's tech) bullshit.

Did he "do" OTII? Did he get very far?

Send me the OTII/OTIII worksheets that the "C/S" has C/S'd and I'll (privately!) critique it, if you like, and point out all the (per Hubbard's tech) gross errors. Heh.

Paul

You're a wonderful man, Paul.
His "C/S won't let him bring checksheets etc home with him. He goes to Wiki for materials.
He is safe because I have audited maybe a hunnerd PCs on the "End of Endless OT111". I know the stuff cold, so if he gets into any trubble that they can't or don't handle, I will step into their shit.
If he needs another OT111 specialist, I will contact you. I trust you without reservation to know your stuff. I already told him about "Paul's Robot Auditor". He thinks it is a suppressive squirrel site.
I have already told him that his C/S is a Cl 6, Ethics Specialist, with no CS training and that his Course Sup afaik has never done anything in Scn. Spouse thinks that i am 'DAing' them.
He's going to do what he wants to do, and that's that.
We spent 6 hours yesterday afternoon explaining our positions.
It's hopefully a matter of time until he looks around there and sees them and their environment, and cognites that he is already in much better shape than either of them.
Or not.

 

[phenomanon]

The point is to show him that his wonderful tech terminals don't know their ass from their elbow in delivering this stuff "by the book." Now, in reality, it's (mostly) all bullshit, and you can get the promised reads even if you hardly follow the procedure at all, which is how come they can get away with it. You can't tell a freezoner that it's all bullshit and expect to be listened to, but you can impinge with "see here, per this issue Hubbard says to do XXX, and yet per what they wrote here your trusted tech people did YYY." Do that 20 times with different bits of tech and they might get the point that their trusted tech people are clueless about the nitty-gritty of what they are selling for hundreds/thousands of dollars.

Paul.

They don't allow him to bring anything home with him. That gives me a clue right there. And neither of them are trained to deliver OT levels.
I'm gonna let every one of the Wankers impale themselves on their own sword.
This is a goal ( auditing OT111) that Spouse has had since we left the cos(spit) 30 years ago. Now that he has retired he has the time and money to do it, and he is sorta "out of a game to play".
I am trying to be 'reasonable' about this, make excuses, and all that stuff.
You, and others here, have helped me bunches in getting myself under control. LOL.

 

[Dulloldfart]

I already told him about "Paul's Robot Auditor". He thinks it is a suppressive squirrel site.

I feel so invalidated.

Paul

 

[phenomanon]

I agree trubs. Just let him get on with it. As long as he wasn't throwing MY money away on a fruitless wild-goose-chase for non-existent 'hitherto undreamed of powers', I'd look after my garden, (a bit cold for that now maybe) chill out on my recliner, stroke my Kona Kat and not get stressed. (Probably easier said than done.) The insults are inexcusable, but just try and smile and don't rise to the bait.

Just my £0.02.

That's my plan.
I just got this 'thank you note' in my email from the ppl at the FZ, and that's the straw that broke the camel's back.
Prior to the revelation that he was taking stuff down there without my knowledge just pissed me off. I went 'over the rainbow' and lost my temper and that's when I posted this thread.
I am settled in my own mind again, and feel OK to do all the sweet good roads fair weather crap.

 

[phenomanon]

I agree trubs. Just let him get on with it. As long as he wasn't throwing MY money away on a fruitless wild-goose-chase for non-existent 'hitherto undreamed of powers', I'd look after my garden, (a bit cold for that now maybe) chill out on my recliner, stroke my Kona Kat and not get stressed. (Probably easier said than done.) The insults are inexcusable, but just try and smile and don't rise to the bait.

Just my £0.02.

That's my plan.
I just got this 'thank you note' in my email from the ppl at the FZ, and that's the straw that broke the camel's back.
The revelation that he was taking stuff down there without my knowledge just pissed me off. I went 'over the rainbow' and lost my temper and that's when I posted this thread.
I am settled in my own mind again, and feel OK to do all the sweet good roads fair weather crap.

 

[phenomanon]

Wise!

Yes. Some sanity has been restored. Thanks to my sweet friends here who truly want to help.
I am new in the 'hood here, and had no one to talk to and came here in despair.
I am OK now. I can deal with it, just as I would deal with any "PC".
We have been together for @35 years, so he can read my thoughts. It is crystal clear how I feel about it, but he will do it anyway.
So. OK.

 

[Hypatia]

That's my plan.
I just got this 'thank you note' in my email from the ppl at the FZ, and that's the straw that broke the camel's back.
The revelation that he was taking stuff down there without my knowledge just pissed me off. I went 'over the rainbow' and lost my temper and that's when I posted this thread.
I am settled in my own mind again, and feel OK to do all the sweet good roads fair weather crap.

I'm confused. Why email the spouse instead of the actual koolaid drinker?

 

[phenomanon]

Yeah, well sometimes partners who "seem to be begging to get thrown out on their ass" get thrown.

I had a husband #1 who met this criterion. It took that silly man - father of my children - 20 years to be able to say to me "I didn't know a good thing when I had it". My answer to him was "You're right, you didn't." And that was the truth. (Let's just say that some karma had entered the picture by then.)

I know a lot of people here probably don't agree with me, but in my opinion, all this tip-toeing around and keeping a smile on your face while a partner is doing something so eminently stupid as to get involved or re-involved in what is well known to be one of the biggest scams on the face of the earth - well, I just do not agree with that.

Where do you draw the line in a relationship? Is standing by with a smile on your face the best thing to do?
Would you stand by and watch the person walk in front of a speeding train?

Sometimes in life, despite the length of the relationship or what happiness there has been between a couple in the past, one of the partners goes off the rails. The partner who is not off the rails (forgive the train analogies) has the right to a peaceful life, not filled with somebody else's garbage.

I suppose I speak coming from a place where I was one of those who "tried everything" to "rescue" the relationship. All I ended up getting was depressed. And then divorced. But, thankfully, the divorce pretty much cured the depression.

None of this stuff is any fun at any age. But particularly not fun when we get to an older age.

Hang in there, phenom. And don't beat yourself up about an anger outburst. Any normal person would be way angry under these circumstances. You've just recently moved into your "dream house", right? Things were going well, and now THIS!

I'm so awful, I guess. Knowing me, I'd "Suppressive Person" his ass out the door so fast his head would spin! Perhaps a quick and harsh dose of what life is like for him alone in the Free Zone is what he needs?

This is not my first marriage. I know those ropes.
Yesterday I told him to move on down there until he gets over it. That shocked him good. He realized that I was teetering on the edge of divorcing his selfish ass. We spent the rest of the day hashing out compromises.
He still will do what he wants to do.
And so, my dear, will I.
I am old, but I am not helpless nor without resources.

 

[strativarius]

That's my plan.
I just got this 'thank you note' in my email from the ppl at the FZ, and that's the straw that broke the camel's back.
The revelation that he was taking stuff down there without my knowledge just pissed me off. I went 'over the rainbow' and lost my temper and that's when I posted this thread.
I am settled in my own mind again, and feel OK to do all the sweet good roads fair weather crap.

You told me about your cat. I didn't know you had a camel as well.

It's really none of my goddam business how you treat your partner, I don't have to live with him 24/7, so you will have to find your own way of making it work. All I can say is, if I were you, he'd be finding the atmosphere a little chilly to say the least (and having to find out where the kitchen was in his house).

One thing is for sure and that is you have got plenty of real friends here anytime you need one.

 

[phenomanon]

I'm confused. Why email the spouse instead of the actual koolaid drinker?

I was curious about that, too. They have his email, and he gave em the stuff, so why would I get the thank you note?
Esp since they know that I am an
'anti' of the first order.
I asked him about it and he said that maybe he had 'misspoke' about who sent it.
However that may be, they know full well that he did not 'own' some of the stuff. He would not have had access to it.
Whatev.
I no longer give a rat's ass.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Wearing my old OTIII-sup hat for a moment, and remembering some discussions on a FZ board ten years ago, I would guess that he's going to run into trouble and not find many, if any. The OTIII C/S (they don't bother with sups, unless that's changed) may do a correction list, then when that doesn't do much, will tell him he can attest as "obviously his NOTS case need handling" or some such out-tech (per Hubbard's tech) bullshit.

Did he "do" OTII? Did he get very far?

Send me the OTII/OTIII worksheets that the "C/S" has C/S'd and I'll (privately!) critique it, if you like, and point out all the (per Hubbard's tech) gross errors. Heh.

I have recently acquired the advanced ability to do C/Sing by remote.

Right this moment, I am "pervading" those OT III worksheets and can state with certainty that every single page, from top to bottom, is filled with Gross Auditing Errors (GAEs).

In fact there is nothing in those worksheets that is not a GAE!

REASON: Amongst many others, one of the primary GAEs is breaking the AUDITOR'S CODE--in which there is definitive scripture which prohibits INVALIDATION and EVALUATION.

Since the ludicrous children's fairy tale known as "Xenu and the Volcanos" is all simply a revenue generating Ghost Story to scare adults into yet another one of Hubbard's "Make More Money" ruses, the entire level is nothing but invalidation & evaluation:

INVALIDATION: Hubbard's "r-factor" (as Founder, researcher, originator of the tech and "senior C/S") to every Pre-OT is that they are a degraded being, because they are packed with other degraded beings. And because they are loaded up with DBs, they (themselves) have been "degraded" not just recently, but for 75 million years. Furthermore, Hubbard "briefs" every OT III student/pc with the "scientific data" that they should have many supernatural abilities (e.g. exteriorization, levitation, postulates...) but that they are so degraded (by reason of body thetans) that they are no longer able to function as an omniscient, omnipotent "Operating Thetan". Thus, on top of directly telling the Scientologists (that are paying Hubbard hundreds of thousands of dollars) that they are degraded beings, he hammers out of existence any slightest self-confidence, self-esteem or self-worth they might have--turning them into helplessly pathetic "humans" who cannot survive without paying for Scientology's advanced levels.

EVALUATION: Hubbard evaluates for every single PC on the earth and instructs them (under threat & penalty of increased tech estimates, ethics or declare) that their past lives were all the same. That they all had the identical "engram" at the hands of Xenu. And that they all are in their present Homo Sapiens condition (an eternally perilous & horrific state, according to mankind's greatest friend) due to Xenu's "implants", consisting of "false ideas" (i.e. any idea that is not sold by Hubbard) and the assassination of the world's major religions (e.g. implanted pictures of Christ, and other chief competitors to Hubbard's Scientology religion brand).​

SCIENTOLOGY GLOSSARY:

OT 3: -noun: 1. The third Advanced Level after a being attains the state of Clear. 2. OT 3 ("Old Trick Number 3") The 3rd trick Hubbard employed after Old Trick #1 failed to Clear people in 1950 and 1951 by running their "engrams"; and, after Old Trick #2 similarly failed to create an Operating Thetan with all the materials developed and tried from 1952 to 1967.

 

[strativarius]

I was curious about that, too. They have his email, and he gave em the stuff, so why would I get the thank you note?
[highlight]Esp since they know that I am an
'anti' of the first order.[/highlight]
I asked him about it and he said that maybe he had 'misspoke' about who sent it.
However that may be, they know full well that he did not 'own' some of the stuff. He would not have had access to it.
Whatev.
I no longer give a rat's ass.

So what's the deal here then phenom? They know you are an 'SP' and that their pre OT lives with you and therefore MUST be PTS, but they don't seem to be doing anything about it. That's not SOP for a start is it? Do you think anything will arise from these circumstances?

 

[lotus]

This is not my first marriage. I know those ropes.
Yesterday I told him to move on down there until he gets over it. That shocked him good. He realized that I was teetering on the edge of divorcing his selfish ass. We spent the rest of the day hashing out compromises.
He still will do what he wants to do.
And so, my dear, will I.
I am old, but I am not helpless nor without resources.

You did good -
keeping control over the territory, setting the borders rules and retaliate to the first sp attack with no tolerance shall make it for a moment till you see what's happening.
Keep your soul at a safe distance of the lenght of the leash to avoid any harmfull $cientologist bite.

The entities will be terrorized at your furious eyes and back off into the volcano - very hot there...

Keep being cause over MEST
(Marriage Enturbulation Safety Tactics)

and faithful and strong Jana!
It may be the tough time before the air will be cleaned for good.

 

[Hypatia]

I was curious about that, too. They have his email, and he gave em the stuff, so why would I get the thank you note?
Esp since they know that I am an
'anti' of the first order.
I asked him about it and he said that maybe he had 'misspoke' about who sent it.
However that may be, they know full well that he did not 'own' some of the stuff. He would not have had access to it.
Whatev.
I no longer give a rat's ass.

You may have some admirers amongst the Feezone. You have accomplished a lot.

 

[phenomanon]

So what's the deal here then phenom? They know you are an SP and that their pre OT lives with you and therefore MUST be PTS, but they don't seem to be doing anything about it. That's not SOP for a start is it? Do you think anything will arise from these circumstances?

I think it is the FZ, and they will "service" anyone who asks for it.
They even have Ray Robles mentally challenged son down there. " Birds of a feather" etc,
I am in a place right now where it is his problem and he will have to live with it.
I do not intend to become involved with it
.This is a great big house. We each have private space. He has agreed to keep the scn SHIT in his own space.
Maybe this will work out, maybe it won't.
I feel that he is not showing any love, respect, or consideration for my feelings.
That's who he is. If auditing OT111 makes him happy and brings him "up tone" then more power to him.
I don't happen to know anyone who has had any life changing betterment from running BTs, so I will censor myself as far as down-doing him is concerned.

 

[uncover]

.....
We spent 6 hours yesterday afternoon explaining our positions.
.....

Now this must be true love....

......
That's who he is. If auditing OT111 makes him happy and brings him "up tone" then more power to him.
I don't happen to know anyone who has had any life changing betterment from running BTs, so I will censor myself as far as down-doing him is concerned.

But you had a chance to try it .... which is his desire now.... I mean, since 30 years.

These are essential questions of life:
How does a junk-food hamburger taste ?
How does it feel to evict poor space-cuties ?

You will never now, when you didn´t try it.

Look the worst thing that could happen in his age is that he will share his fate with El Con Hubbard:

All he could do was say the same thing, over and over:

"There are more BTs! Many more than people realize!"
​

.....

Under this circumstances you have to ask yourself: "What is better ? That he in-wastes his time with BT's or with other young females ?"

 

[Anonycat]

Hmmm.