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Is Scientology really that bad?

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
I'd like to read it. Especially given that it is written from a Christian point of view.
Do you still have the digital version? Maybe we could set up a blog or something with a Paypal payment button and the digital book to download thereafter? Or any other payment alternative that you may have.
Let me know, I'd like to help.

Wasn't aware of the Amazon account issue, though. Shared the link on Facebook ... sorry. :confused:
But maybe something can still be done! :flowers2:

Wham! Bam! Thank you MaMS!

You must be psychic! You've confused the book on Amazon with the book I am composing.

"The Amendment, Revised, Corrected and Refined" (Amazon, $6.00) is about the Amendment to The Constitution which I am proposing and you can easily introduce yourself to it as The Conway Daily Sun published the first draft in January 2016 and has it on their website.

Just google "Birdwood/Amendment" and it will be the top item

But an examination of Hubbard's work from a Judeochristian Universalist perspective in a COAS Manifesto which I MUST write should be readable
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
I found out about scientology in 1963. I left the sea org in 1973/4. So that's around ten years. I spent about two years in total on and off on staff (as an active scieno), so where you are getting your figures from I have no idea.

Yes, you are absolutely right, I learned precious little that was of any real value whatsoever - oh, except that old newspaper is great for cleaning windows - oh, and how to recycle toilet paper, but I won't go into that here.

And in the two years while I was on staff I went from grade zero to OTI, became a Class IV and Standard Dianetics Graduate auditor and C/S and was Tech Sec of London Org. And this was when scientology was booming.

And you ...?

I knew you were in for years and thought you had once said 20 but that was another poster.

I did HAS Course, Student Hat and HSDC in SAN Francisco '71-'72, Went back east and hung aroung the great Bobby Ford's Cambridge Mission until late August when that intense wild wailin' Texas boho Gordon Bell known on ESMB as "Mystic" blew through on Tours from FCDC and caught me up in his slipstream and I was on staff both orgs in Washington until June 4th 1974 when some whacked out Third party Apollo mission pulled me off post and put me on GO lines which combined with some other outrageous horsecrap was enough for me...

Then after that...
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
And what the fuck is a 'responsible for condition case'? More of Hubbard's pseudo psychological claptrap! You set so much store on this charlatan's 'work' and the truth is even if it did work - which it doesn't, he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire in the condition you're in anyway. In my opinion you need to get real mate and see where your adherence to this man's philosophy has got you - fucking nowhere!

Too late now to get a real mate, don't exactly know why but when the divorce from Hell came down in 1980 and I was a handsome kind gentle but strong young buck I knew then...

???? Why should this have been ????

Perhaps because a great passion is always chaste...

But I knew then there would be no second mate. I've always had to keep the dream of it alive in spite of the certainty repeatedly reinforced in space maintained by the several enamorata it would never come again...

Now primarily a "responsible for condition case" is someone who is all fucked up and says Scientology fucked them up. In more general terms it is anyone who will not take personal responsibility for their condition regardless of how it came to be.
 

Me and My Self

Self-born, Autogamous Unicorn
You've confused the book on Amazon with the book I am composing.

"The Amendment, Revised, Corrected and Refined" (Amazon, $6.00) is about the Amendment to The Constitution which I am proposing and you can easily introduce yourself to it as The Conway Daily Sun published the first draft in January 2016 and has it on their website.

Just google "Birdwood/Amendment" and it will be the top item

But an examination of Hubbard's work from a Judeochristian Universalist perspective in a COAS Manifesto which I MUST write should be readable
Thank you.
In fact I was indeed referring to the "Amendment" book on Amazon ... (checked TCDS website but no draft there?)
So, I'd like to read BOTH then.
Anyway should you need help with setting up a blog or sorts to promote your books, just let me know.;)
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
But an examination of Hubbard's work from a Judeochristian Universalist perspective in a COAS Manifesto which I MUST write should be readable
No "examination of Hubbard's work from a Judaeochristian Universalist perspective" would be complete without mentioning the fact that Hubbard said Christ and Heaven were implants. So I hope you'll include that.

Scientology and Christianity are not compatible. If you believe otherwise you're deluded.

"For a long time, people have been cross with me for my lack of co-operation in believing in a Christian Heaven, God and Christ. I have never said I didn’t disbelieve in a Big Thetan but there was certainly something very corny about Heaven et al. Now I have to apologize. There was a Heaven. Not too unlike, in cruel betrayal, the heaven of the Assassins in the 12th Century who, like everyone else, dramatized the whole track implants – if a bit more so."
-- HCO BULLETIN OF MAY 11, AD13, "ROUTINE 3 HEAVEN"

Here's the whole bulletin, posted a few years back by HelluvaHoax (thanks, HH)
http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/i-am-a-christian-scientologist.23919/page-5#post-592597
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Too late now to get a real mate, don't exactly know why but when the divorce from Hell came down in 1980 and I was a handsome kind gentle but strong young buck I knew then...

???? Why should this have been ????

Perhaps because a great passion is always chaste...

But I knew then there would be no second mate. I've always had to keep the dream of it alive in spite of the certainty repeatedly reinforced in space maintained by the several enamorata it would never come again...

Now primarily a "responsible for condition case" is someone who is all fucked up and says Scientology fucked them up. In more general terms it is anyone who will not take personal responsibility for their condition regardless of how it came to be.
You seem to have misread my post William, I didn't say 'get a real mate', I said you need to GET REAL (face up to reality) mate. Of course, some people would rather just simply patronise you than be calculatedly mean-spirited like me, but I'd rather see you take personal responsibility for your condition and get your shit together than just wallow in self-pity the way you seem to enjoy doing.

We've all seen hard times; my beautiful wife dumped me because she couldn't take the beans 'n' rice austerity that I'd brought her to. Then I lost my job and ended up living in a dilapidated and abandoned caravan in the middle of a farmer's muddy field in midwinter with no heating - are you reaching for the Kleenex yet? No? OK, there's more. I've slept on beaches, I've slept in cars and I've been penniless and found myself having to sleep in open-all-night bars on the Reeperbahn in Hamburg where I relied on the kind hearts of the local prostitutes, who bought me enough sausage and potato salad to keep me alive. Don't tell me about hard times William, I've got the fucking T-shirt. When the German owners of the attic that I eventually found to sleep in discovered me (because it was wintertime, the attic was freezing, and despite being warned not to do so by the girl whose parents owned the attic I turned on an electric heater and they noticed the extra usage) instead of throwing me out onto the street, they bought me a ticket back to London and even packed me some food to eat on the journey. When I got there I had to fight to gain entrance to a hovel that stank of cat's piss, where the cooking facility was an upturned electric fire and where you'd be prosecuted for allowing your dog to live. I lied my ass off on job applications to get out of the deep shit I was in because my self-respect simply wouldn't allow me to stay in those conditions. I just think it's time that you found some of your own self-respect that's all, and if it takes my goading and insulting you to do it, well, the end justifies the means as far as I'm concerned.
 
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I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I relied on the kind hearts of the local prostitutes, who bought me enough sausage and potato salad to keep me alive. Don't tell me about hard times William, I've got the fucking T-shirt. When the German owners of the attic that I eventually found to sleep in discovered me (because it was wintertime, the attic was freezing, and despite being warned not to do so by the girl whose parents owned the attic I turned on an electric heater and they noticed the extra usage) instead of throwing me out onto the street, they bought me a ticket back to London and even packed me some food to eat on the journey.
They were simply patronising you.

;)

In all seriousness, had you met Birdie 40 or so years ago (presumably around the time all of this happened to you) you may have helped him by using 'tough love' but he is now close to 70 and I doubt your goading and insulting is doing him any good whatsoever.

YMMV.
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
They were simply patronising you.

;)


In all seriousness, had you met Birdie 40 or so years ago (presumably around the time all of this happened to you) you may have helped him by using 'tough love' but he is now close to 70 and I doubt your goading and insulting is doing him any good whatsoever.

YMMV.
Nor any harm...

Live communication even low on the tone scale is still live communication
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
No "examination of Hubbard's work from a Judaeochristian Universalist perspective" would be complete without mentioning the fact that Hubbard said Christ and Heaven were implants. So I hope you'll include that.

Scientology and Christianity are not compatible. If you believe otherwise you're deluded.

"For a long time, people have been cross with me for my lack of co-operation in believing in a Christian Heaven, God and Christ. I have never said I didn’t disbelieve in a Big Thetan but there was certainly something very corny about Heaven et al. Now I have to apologize. There was a Heaven. Not too unlike, in cruel betrayal, the heaven of the Assassins in the 12th Century who, like everyone else, dramatized the whole track implants – if a bit more so."
-- HCO BULLETIN OF MAY 11, AD13, "ROUTINE 3 HEAVEN"

Here's the whole bulletin, posted a few years back by HelluvaHoax (thanks, HH)
http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/i-am-a-christian-scientologist.23919/page-5#post-592597

Ahhh...

Piney!

Yeah, I'm well familiar with Hubbard's writing and if you want to call Scientology incompatible with Christianity go ahead.

Dianetics most certainly is not incompatible with Christianity nor any of the lower grades all of which may be regarded as dianetic processes.

We are directed by Our Saviour to love our neighbors. Study Hubbard's work as a Christian and maintain your personal integrity and you can gain superb and effective tools for practical application.

And...

Again...

As you are not a professing Christian, why do you think yourself fit to so judge?
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
You seem to have misread my post William, I didn't say 'get a real mate', I said you need to GET REAL (face up to reality) mate. Of course, some people would rather just simply patronise you than be calculatedly mean-spirited like me, but I'd rather see you take personal responsibility for your condition and get your shit together than just wallow in self-pity the way you seem to enjoy doing.

We've all seen hard times; my beautiful wife dumped me because she couldn't take the beans 'n' rice austerity that I'd brought her to. Then I lost my job and ended up living in a dilapidated and abandoned caravan in the middle of a farmer's muddy field in midwinter with no heating - are you reaching for the Kleenex yet? No? OK, there's more. I've slept on beaches, I've slept in cars and I've been penniless and found myself having to sleep in open-all-night bars on the Reeperbahn in Hamburg where I relied on the kind hearts of the local prostitutes, who bought me enough sausage and potato salad to keep me alive. Don't tell me about hard times William, I've got the fucking T-shirt. When the German owners of the attic that I eventually found to sleep in discovered me (because it was wintertime, the attic was freezing, and despite being warned not to do so by the girl whose parents owned the attic I turned on an electric heater and they noticed the extra usage) instead of throwing me out onto the street, they bought me a ticket back to London and even packed me some food to eat on the journey. When I got there I had to fight to gain entrance to a hovel that stank of cat's piss, where the cooking facility was an upturned electric fire and where you'd be prosecuted for allowing your dog to live. I lied my ass off on job applications to get out of the deep shit I was in because my self-respect simply wouldn't allow me to stay in those conditions. I just think it's time that you found some of your own self-respect that's all, and if it takes my goading and insulting you to do it, well, the end justifies the means as far as I'm concerned.
Coooool...

Vivre la vie boheme!

I've done well with the hard times Stratsie. And it is true I'm guilty of wallowing in self pity over a lack of a mate.

But...

You have missed out on separation from children. It hurts. And my firstborn son dead four years before anyone would tell me...


Also...

Trust me on this...

You don't know how hard I got whacked back in 1975. The only person I've met who has been whacked harder was a POW in the Hanoi Hilton for three and a half years. Weighed 225 when I knew him but only 106 pounds when he came off a plane on a stretcher. I spent some quality time doing 2wc with the dude and got some very clean vgi's out of him and, once again, I just couldn't have done that w/o my auditor training.

Currently, the years have gotten to me and since my car was stolen I'm sleeping on the concrete. I've been expecting my current project with the amendment to net me some cash, some support and some assistance and it still might but my advanced COPD, atrial flutter and the years have me a bit down...


HEY!!!

You've got the grist for a readable memoir there stratsie m'lad...

I suggest you read "I Jan Kremer" for some inspiration
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you.
In fact I was indeed referring to the "Amendment" book on Amazon ... (checked TCDS website but no draft there?)
So, I'd like to read BOTH then.
Anyway should you need help with setting up a blog or sorts to promote your books, just let me know.;)

It's still up on the TCDS site.

Google "Birdwood Amendment" and the link to TCDS is on the first page.
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
You've got the grist for a readable memoir there stratsie m'lad...
You just don't get it do you? What I wrote was all true, but it was sarcasm William. I could fill pages and pages with descriptions of the crap I've been through in my life, starting with being born into the world's most dysfunctional family, and that probably goes for many of the posters here, but who gives a shit?
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Been there, done that, no draft (unless you are referring to the "The proposed 28th Amendment to the Constitution" end paragraph of that article).
No link to a draft elsewhere. :confused:

Geez...

Try again. I was just there. I checked when you said you couldn't find it

TCDS published it in a letter to the editor which is one of my very best pieces of writing ever
 

Clay Pigeon

Gold Meritorious Patron
You just don't get it do you? What I wrote was all true, but it was sarcasm William. I could fill pages and pages with descriptions of the crap I've been through in my life, starting with being born into the world's most dysfunctional family, and that probably goes for many of the posters here, but who gives a shit?

People who read books. That's who. Sarcasm hell, you were boasting!

It takes five untimely corpses minimum to be in contention for most dysfunctional family...
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Back in the nineties I was researching something and went into the Boston Public Library to check the Encyclopedia Britanica article on the Bible. It opened by saying "Regardless of your opinion of it one cannot be considered an educated person in Western Civilization without some familiarity with The Bible."

Does this appear to be gibberish to you?

The Bible is part of Western culture. Even if you're an atheist, you are not fully educated if you haven't read it. Similarly, Shakespeare and other works defining the West.
 

Gib

Crusader
Nor any harm...

Live communication even low on the tone scale is still live communication
live communication is not profound, even low on the so called tone scale.

Your live communication is filled with rhetoric and bullshit.

How many people you audit to clear? How many people you bring up the tone scale?

Other than Billy Martin and his wife?
 

pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
Yeah, I'm well familiar with Hubbard's writing and if you want to call Scientology incompatible with Christianity go ahead.
Okay, I will. Scientology is incompatible with Christianity.
We are directed by Our Saviour to love our neighbors. Study Hubbard's work as a Christian and maintain your personal integrity and you can gain superb and effective tools for practical application.
"ENEMY — SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."
-- HCO POLICY LETTER OF 18 OCTOBER 1967, "PENALTIES FOR LOWER CONDITIONS"

http://suppressiveperson.org/1967/10/18/hcopl-penalties-for-lower-conditions/

Does that sound very Christian to you? What about "love your enemies"? What about "turn the other cheek," eh?

And don't give me any BS about Fair Game being canceled. That policy only cancels the use of the term "Fair Game" on ethics orders. That was only a PR move.
As you are not a professing Christian, why do you think yourself fit to so judge?
That's like saying "You're not a professing Scientologist, so how can you judge Scientology?" Would you assert that someone not currently practicing scn can't judge scn? I WAS a professing Christian, and I know what it's about. I went to 12 years of Catholic school, including high school with the Jesuits. I had a cousin who spent her entire life as a nun. I've read most of the Bible, both new and old testaments.

I consider myself fit to judge because I am a human being with a brain who can see that a religion that mocks and denigrates Christianity is not compatible with it.

You, on the other hand, seem to be talking about some fantasy version of scn that exists only in your own mind. It bears little resemblance to the real thing, something you're either unwilling or unable to confront.
 
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pineapple

Silver Meritorious Patron
When I got there I had to fight to gain entrance to a hovel that stank of cat's piss
Not to make light of your hard times, Strat, but the above sentence keeps cracking me up. Reminds me of some of the funnier parts of Naked Lunch ...

"So there I am trapped three weeks in the headwaters of the Upper Baboonasshole and half the bearers down with the aftosa. Achmed, that little sneak, switched my cocaine with Saniflush, so I set up a meet to buy more.

When I got there I had to fight to gain entrance to a hovel that stank of cat piss. Most disgusting thing I ever stood still for."
 
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