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The ESMB Unpopular Opinions Thread

Little David

Gold Meritorious Patron
Oh gosh.

I hope Tony doesn't get mad at us.

If that's the case, I reverse my ruling:

Complete Unpopular Opinions Thread WIN.
With the aid of my psychic ability, I know that Tony is pleased to have the complete article posted here at this time. He knows that most ex-Scientologists are impaired by their attraction to "garden-variety crackpots". He hopes that this article will help them and all that read it.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
With the aid of my psychic ability, I know that Tony is pleased to have the complete article posted here at this time. He knows that most ex-Scientologists are impaired by their attraction to "garden-variety crackpots". He hopes that this article will help them and all that read it.
Yes. His shit is so therapuetic for Exes.

If only we could fully swallow his unquestioning sycophancy for mainstream drivel.

The wisdom of never in Tony Ortega to remind ex scientolgists of the error of thier ways.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
...unquestioning sycophancy....

There it is again. That word. Best ad homo novis word in the history of man.

I suspect it was invented by the marcabians back in the 50's to easier assimilate the thought that someone could have a different opinion from the marcabian elite.

I fucking hate that word.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
There it is again. That word. Best ad homo novis word in the history of man.

I suspect it was invented by the marcabians back in the 50's to easier assimilate the thought that someone could have a different opinion from the marcabian elite.

I fucking hate that word.
He never questions anything that regular society offers.

For instance, if a Scientologist commits suicide, it's always because they didn't have access to standard psychiatry. He, somehow, always knows why a scientologist committed suicide and that's why.

But some people who see the best psychiatrists in the world also commit suicide. Psychiatrists are, for the most part, competent at treating depression in some cases, but they are no guarantee of success.

Does Tony ever provide this kind of truthful, nuanced stance?

No way. He's got a herd to manipulate - and that herd is filled with Ex-Scientologists who should be ashamed of themselves for ever questioning mainstream society so much that they would seek out alternatives like Scientology.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
He never questions anything that regular society offers.

For instance, if a Scientologist commits suicide, it's always because they didn't have access to standard psychiatry. He, somehow, always knows why a scientologist committed suicide and that's why.

But some people who see the best psychiatrists in the world also commit suicide. Psychiatrists are, for the most part, competent at treating depression in some cases, but they are no guarantee of success.

Does Tony ever provide this kind of truthful, nuanced stance?

No way. He's got a herd to manipulate - and that herd is filled with Ex-Scientologists who should be ashamed of themselves for ever questioning mainstream society so much that they would seek out alternatives like Scientology.
You're absolutely taking the piss if you want to compare psychiatry to the "tech" and use that to brand a person a sycophant.

You're absolutely showing that you are uneducated, misinformed and opinionated towards the biased, in your views.

Psychiatry or psychiatric care, is not the "get better routine" of the "mainstream". It's the medical specialty devoted to diagnosing, preventing, and treating mental disorders. There is no other medical field that does that.

There is no "mainstream" vs "not the mainstream" when one is discussing mental health.

I find it completely unreasonable to accuse anyone of making false accusations when it comes to suicide within Scientology. It is proven again and again, that people with mental health disorders within Scientology, are being prevented and talked out of seeking actual help.

If you want to have a go at that, be my guest, however I do not feel that ESMB should be the forum for that. Rather, I would encourage you to start taking classes towards your degree in psychiatry, and then along the way you can write as many academic studies you want in regards to the subject, have them peer reviewed, and debate it with other experts in mental health. You are not an expert on that and never have been based on a wee bit of daddle in Scientology.

Unquestioning sycophancy for mainstream drivel me arse.
 

F.Bullbait

Oh, a wise guy,eh?
How to give yourself that unpopular appeal...

18a7b860590901379b5b005056a9545d


Also the approved mien of a Sea Ogre.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
You're absolutely taking the piss if you want to compare psychiatry to the "tech" and use that to brand a person a sycophant.

You're absolutely showing that you are uneducated, misinformed and opinionated towards the biased, in your views.

Psychiatry or psychiatric care, is not the "get better routine" of the "mainstream". It's the medical specialty devoted to diagnosing, preventing, and treating mental disorders. There is no other medical field that does that.

There is no "mainstream" vs "not the mainstream" when one is discussing mental health.

I find it completely unreasonable to accuse anyone of making false accusations when it comes to suicide within Scientology. It is proven again and again, that people with mental health disorders within Scientology, are being prevented and talked out of seeking actual help.

If you want to have a go at that, be my guest, however I do not feel that ESMB should be the forum for that. Rather, I would encourage you to start taking classes towards your degree in psychiatry, and then along the way you can write as many academic studies you want in regards to the subject, have them peer reviewed, and debate it with other experts in mental health. You are not an expert on that and never have been based on a wee bit of daddle in Scientology.

Unquestioning sycophancy for mainstream drivel me arse.
I love this:

If you want to have a go at that, be my guest, however I do not feel that ESMB should be the forum for that.
LOL! Is this the ESMB equivalent of Marty pronouncing "You will NOT Besmirch the Good Name of L Ron Hubbard on this BLOG!"?

:hysterical::hysterical:

Tony's unquestioning, simplistic sycophancy to mainstream psychiatry is only one example of Tony's unquestioning, simplistic stances that he runs on Exes. There are others. Such as the stereotypes he uses for "cult members": They always joined at a 'vulnerable' time in their lives.

Have you ever considered that stereotypes exist for cult members?

Have you ever spotted when Tony's used a stereotype?
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Tony's unquestioning, simplistic sycophancy to mainstream psychiatry is only one example of Tony's unquestioning, simplistic stances that he runs on Exes. There are others. Such as the stereotypes he uses for "cult members": They always joined at a 'vulnerable' time in their lives.
I would say a case can be made that they did always join at a vulnerable time in their lives.

If they weren't vulnerable they wouldn't have joined. :duh:
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
LOL! Is this the ESMB equivalent of Marty pronouncing "You will NOT Besmirch the Good Name of L Ron Hubbard on this BLOG!"?
No, that is how I feel in regards to the subject, If you want to discuss mental health issues - go join the field, stop being an uneducated amateur at it.

Tony's unquestioning, simplistic sycophancy to mainstream psychiatry is only one example of Tony's unquestioning, simplistic stances that he runs on Exes. There are others. Such as the stereotypes he uses for "cult members": They always joined at a 'vulnerable' time in their lives.
Have you ever considered that stereotypes exist for cult members?
Have you ever spotted when Tony's used a stereotype?
1. Psychiatry is the example you brought up. How silly of you to do so if you are now going to dilute your message to that being one of many examples.
2. Tony is a reporter who writes, is he not? branding him or anyone a sycophant based on their belief that psychiatry "works better then Scientology", well... Se my above post.
3. Stereotypes exists for everyone, including you.
4. I have not spotted Tony using stereotypes. Scientology is not one of me main topics that I follow anymore. Thus I do not read him enough to start taking notice of his writing style in that sense. However, him being a reporter...
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
I would say a case can be made that they did always join at a vulnerable time in their lives.

If they weren't vulnerable they wouldn't have joined. :duh:
The idea that you are going to take effective action to improve your life is a position of strength, not weakness.

By accepting these stereotypes about yourself, you have allowed your whole life to be redefined for you in the most self-destructive ways.

That would be fine if these re-definitions were true.

But in the overwhelming majority of individuals, they aren't true.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
The idea that you are going to take effective action to improve your life is a position of strength, not weakness.

By accepting these stereotypes about yourself, you have allowed your whole life to be redefined for you in the most self-destructive ways.

That would be fine if these re-definitions were true.

But in the overwhelming majority of individuals, they aren't true.
So, you are completely discarding the idea of finding one's ruin?
 

AD1950

Patron
Way back in the dark ages of the interwebs, before Google, even before AMAZON, there was a newsgroup called "ARS" (short for, alt-religion-scientology).

Lots of people found each other there, some good inside information was shared, and the critical community grew.

Then OSA stepped in, and started trolling the site. Valuable threads were derailed or outnumbered, generally with nonsense. The signal-to-noise ratio became less bearable, detracting would-be readers from returning to ARS.

Will this be allowed to be the fate of ESMB?
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Tony is a reporter who writes, is he not? branding him or anyone a sycophant based on their belief that psychiatry "works better then Scientology", well... Se my above post.

You've changed my point. I never said this. I said that going to a psychiatrist for the treatment of depression is not a guarantee you will not end up committing suicide - and Tony Ortega never mentions this.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
Way back in the dark ages of the interwebs, before Google, even before AMAZON, there was a newsgroup called "ARS" (short for, alt-religion-scientology).

Lots of people found each other there, some good inside information was shared, and the critical community grew.

Then OSA stepped in, and started trolling the site. Valuable threads were derailed or outnumbered, generally with nonsense. The signal-to-noise ratio became less bearable, detracting would-be readers from returning to ARS.

Will this be allowed to be the fate of ESMB?
Talking for meself I enjoy these subjects that we have here at the moment. If you don't want a part of it, you can ignore the thread or the posters.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Way back in the dark ages of the interwebs, before Google, even before AMAZON, there was a newsgroup called "ARS" (short for, alt-religion-scientology).

Lots of people found each other there, some good inside information was shared, and the critical community grew.

Then OSA stepped in, and started trolling the site. Valuable threads were derailed or outnumbered, generally with nonsense. The signal-to-noise ratio became less bearable, detracting would-be readers from returning to ARS.

Will this be allowed to be the fate of ESMB?
This is called the ESMB Unpopular Opinions Thread. Criticism of Tony Ortega and questioning the stereotypes that Exes have been given to accept about themselves is very unpopular here on ESMB at this time.

If you feel queasy when someone voices an unpopular opinion that questions your belief system, don't come here. Use the "Ignore Thread" function.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
You've changed my point. I never said this. I said that going to a psychiatrist for the treatment of depression is not a guarantee you will not end up committing suicide - and Tony Ortega never mentions this.
Why should he, or anyone, need to mention what is common knowledge??? You are creating an argument that it's "mainstream" vs "not accepted by mainstream" and it is not.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Way back in the dark ages of the interwebs, before Google, even before AMAZON, there was a newsgroup called "ARS" (short for, alt-religion-scientology).

Lots of people found each other there, some good inside information was shared, and the critical community grew.

Then OSA stepped in, and started trolling the site. Valuable threads were derailed or outnumbered, generally with nonsense. The signal-to-noise ratio became less bearable, detracting would-be readers from returning to ARS.

Will this be allowed to be the fate of ESMB?
Are you talking before or after the sporgery?

I got on in 2001 and you needed a damn good killfile to read it. It was never nice. It was bickery, and nasty and cliquey. Yes good information was shared in 95, and without Arnie, Dennis, Tom and the firestorm they started, we wouldn't have had a critic community to grow from.

But it was never fun.

Yesterday's killfile is today's ignore button.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
The idea that you are going to take effective action to improve your life is a position of strength, not weakness.

By accepting these stereotypes about yourself, you have allowed your whole life to be redefined for you in the most self-destructive ways.

That would be fine if these re-definitions were true.

But in the overwhelming majority of individuals, they aren't true.
For an individual who takes action to improve their life and/or the lives of others, absolutely that is a position of strength, and I would admire anyone with that purpose.

But the CoS is the very last place I'd send someone with that purpose.

However, if they were seeking an affordable solution on how to clean windows, I might send them there. :cool:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
So, you are completely discarding the idea of finding one's ruin?
Finding one's ruin is a sales technique used in every area of commerce. You can not sell something to someone until they know the problem they are solving by buying it.

Again, deciding to take action to fix the thing in your life that is "ruining" it, is a position of strength, not weakness.

In most cases, the decision to improve your "ruin" using Scientology led to real improvement in the life of a Scientologist - or else they would have never become a Scientologist.

It's only when you stop questioning Scientology and adopt the blind loyalty they increasingly require of you, that you are fucked.

A similar thing has happened here on ESMB. There is an abundance of unquestioning blind loyalty here.

It happens to anyone who stops questioning, doesn't stand up to threats, and who just does whatever they can to fit in and be seen as "ethical" by their fellow group members.

Yes. Scientology does exploit the loyalty you willingly give them. Eventually, they make you work against your own self-interests. But you are, and always have been, in control of your own loyalty.

But the cult member stereotype of "you joined at a vulnerable time in your life" is, more often than not, false.
 
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