Public Shaming of ex-scientologists ...

[Dotey OT]

Inter-bloody-mission!

Some of us are seeking a new guru in their lives. Can you please keep the noise level down a bit while I try and focus on the research I am wading through. This is an important decision. I am tired of thinking for myself. Tired, ya know. (I'd putting the yawn smilie thing here but I can't find the damn thing and I am too lazy to try harder to find it)

I am wicked and lazy. Don't you just want to save me.

I open up my mouth and air comes rushing out.

I needed that!!!

 

[lotus]

I am actually watching the aftermath finale.
I'll come back on the thread I posted regarding
Rinder and Remini.

I didn't watch the whole episode and won't since I had enough and it's a well known fact that I have always been concerned ( and troubled) regarding the culture of children abuses...it projected me right back decades ago , in such a dark place...

Anyways, all I needed to know, was well covered within the first hour or so! Thus I will come back about Rinder and Remini smearing and slanderous unfounded attacks.

Everyone shall watch this final episode as Rinder answers for the non-issues he has been recently attacked here. There is way more to be enlightened about, even with a retired FBI agent.

 

[tesseract]

Inter-bloody-mission!

Some of us are seeking a new guru in their lives. Can you please keep the noise level down a bit while I try and focus on the research I am wading through. This is an important decision. I am tired of thinking for myself. Tired, ya know. (I'd putting the yawn smilie thing here but I can't find the damn thing and I am too lazy to try harder to find it)
[...]

Does it have to be a human being?
Inquiring birds want to know...

 

[Emma]

So what if this happened?

Victim: OMG! It's you! You are the one who ransacked my home and took my great grandmother's ring!

Thief: Oh yeah, sorry about that.

Victim: Sorry? Sorry? You can be sorry all you like but I want that ring back. It was really precious to me and can't be replaced. Losing that broke my heart. And I want you to pay for damages to my house. It cost me a lot of time and money to fix it.

Thief: Yeah, we all did some dumb stuff in our youth right? I mean come on, I said I'm sorry.

Victim: No, not good enough. Where is my ring?

Thief: I pawned it years ago, but what you don't realise is that I run a group for ex thieves. We all get together on Monday nights and discuss how bad we've been. We all get to tell each other how sorry we are that we were thieves. We have a website too where we talk in general terms about how bad theft is and try to deter others from being thieves.

Victim: That's nice but what about the actual victims? Do you guys ever go find your actual victims & apologise? Do you ever return any stolen loot? Make restitution?

Thief: No, that's not necessary. We all know we are sorry and that's enough.

Victim: I will find your website and I will ask you outright to confess your crime. Will you do that?

Thief: You can try but you'll just get trolled by everyone else who will call you a whiny victim and shut you down, but hey, go for it. I'm pretty well known in the ex thieves community. Lots of people will stand up for me. They know I'm a changed man.

Victim: BUT WHAT ABOUT MY RING!!!!???

Crowd: Ugh, get over yourself. You're an embarrassment. How dare you call out this nice guy. Go away troll. Take him to court. Good luck with that!

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I know everything that went wrong in the world was our own fault while in the cult (because we 'pulled it all in'). ... is this some kind of delayed, reverse reaction?

I am NEVER talking about children or generational scientologists when I say things like that (I just want to make that 100% clear in case our resident bull-baiter wants to try and jump on it).

The truth is we all accepted the awful side of the cult ... right up until we stopped accepting it and got out and getting out took very real courage, so I know we have it in spades.

Of course there were people in the cult who seemed to enjoy inflicting nastiness on others (and held the posts that enabled and encouraged it) but that happens everywhere IRL. It usually starts in Kindy. It's a sad but very real part of life.

I'm not lacking in either caring or empathy but surely personal responsibility has to come into the equation at some stage and overall we are all in the same boat ... the people we are going after are ex-scientologists and many of them are working their arses off to expose the cult ... THAT is what I find embarrassing ... that we are turning on our own and at the point where so much is being done to try and crush (or at least expose) hubbards vicious cult.

Anyway, what will be will be but I'm making this point because we have 100's of lurkers here every single day, many would be interested never ins ... some would be journalists and they could be forming views about exes in general that may not be complimentary or helpful ... it doesn't bother me because I've remained anon but I feel for anyone that could be hurt by it in the future and am just attempting to calm things down a bit.

I'll leave it at that, I'm sorry if anyone finds my thoughts offensive but that was not the intention I can assure you.

 

[lotus]

Really? "Back-channel campaigns"? Specifically who? Really, enough of these vague accusations and conspiracy theories, WHO?

May be he speaks for himself!

 

[lotus]

I feel for posting a new thread
I love theta treads when there are so good work done "back channel"

 

[Free Being Me]

I feel for posting a new thread
I love theta treads when there are so good work done "back channel"

Do you mind if I pm you, Lotus? So we can back channel ideas for a new thread? Something evocative and polarizing and compelling that will have ominous overtones gripping the board? Like bird sex or cheese cake or the annual ESMB orgy? You know, important stuff! Please don't tell anyone we are having this discussion. It's vitally important it remain super secret.

 

[lotus]

Do you mind if I pm you, Lotus? So we can back channel ideas for a new thread? Something evocative and polarizing and compelling that will have ominous overtones gripping the board? Like bird sex or cheese cake or the annual ESMB orgy? You know, important stuff! Please don't tell anyone we are having this discussion. It's vitally important it remain super secret.

Jeez FBM

You know I will succomb any sex-chocolate-alcohol back channel conspiracies to plot such a thread ( it was supposed to remain secret though)

The annual ESMB orgy would be great though ( whoops I had written annal instead of annual) you are invited to pm me as soon as you sign a non disclosure agreement
( for the pictures provided..it would be embarrassing to be featured on Alanzosblog in my Eve skin Since Lotus blooming has faded quite a bit)​

Lotus -
a faded middle age proxxxxute
hooking on ESMB ​

I pologize for I shame my very good friends

 

[Free Being Me]

Jeez FBM

You know I will succomb any sex-chocolate-alcohol back channel conspiracies to plot such a thread ( it was supposed to remain secret though)

The annual ESMB orgy would be great though ( whoops I had written annal instead of annual) you are invited to pm me as soon as you sign a non disclosure agreement
( for the pictures provided..it would be embarrassing to be featured on Alanzosblog in my Eve skin Since Lotus blooming has faded quite a bit)​

Lotus -
a faded middle age proxxxxute
hooking on ESMB ​

I pologize for I shame my very good friends

Fantastic! Don't forget to pm the Handler Overlord on duty here at ESMB for clearance back channeling a new thread. Talk with you soon!

 

[Emma]

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I know everything that went wrong in the world was our own fault while in the cult (because we 'pulled it all in'). ... is this some kind of delayed, reverse reaction?

I am NEVER talking about children or generational scientologists when I say things like that (I just want to make that 100% clear in case our resident bull-baiter wants to try and jump on it).

The truth is we all accepted the awful side of the cult ... right up until we stopped accepting it and got out and getting out took very real courage, so I know we have it in spades.

Of course there were people in the cult who seemed to enjoy inflicting nastiness on others (and held the posts that enabled and encouraged it) but that happens everywhere IRL. It usually starts in Kindy. It's a sad but very real part of life.

I'm not lacking in either caring or empathy but surely personal responsibility has to come into the equation at some stage and overall we are all in the same boat ... the people we are going after are ex-scientologists and many of them are working their arses off to expose the cult ... THAT is what I find embarrassing ... that we are turning on our own and at the point where so much is being done to try and crush (or at least expose) hubbards vicious cult.

Anyway, what will be will be but I'm making this point because we have 100's of lurkers here every single day, many would be interested never ins ... some would be journalists and they could be forming views about exes in general that may not be complimentary or helpful ... it doesn't bother me because I've remained anon but I feel for anyone that could be hurt by it in the future and am just attempting to calm things down a bit.

I'll leave it at that, I'm sorry if anyone finds my thoughts offensive but that was not the intention I can assure you.

Hey, I wasn't trying to pick a fight earlier, I just know there are people out there who really do deserve some answers to questions, whether it be OSA ops against them, intimidation, blackmail etc. And I know it "looks" bad to question an upstanding guy who is doing what he can. My point is that while the "overall good" is wonderful, can we, or should we forget about the individuals who might applaud the increase in community awareness, but still feel that they need their questions answered. There is an idea that these questions shouldn't be asked publicly. But when asked privately they are never answered.

I think there is this idea that "we were all bad" in Scientology. It seems that because we were all in it, somehow we have to share the "guilt". It's like we all enforced disconnection, we all crush regged the public to death, we all made someone clean a toilet with a toothbrush, we all participated in surveillance against critics, we all agreed with enforced abortion, we all oversaw the RPF, we all stopped people from blowing etc. It's like guilt by association or something.

This simply isn't true.

I never did any of those things. I didn't harass Div6 students who said they didn't want to do another course. I didn't put pressure on anyone to join staff. I didn't lie and reg someone out of their retirement. I didn't disconnect from my family who thought Scn was a joke. I was in constant ethics trouble for saying I didn't agree with things. I wrote KRs to Int management where I saw abuses. This made me a target and I copped my share of punishment for it.

I'm not saying I was a saint, but I no longer want to take on the burden of the things I didn't do. Yes we were all part of the machine and we Kept Scientology Working but we are not all the same. Maybe I could have become the "abortion enforcer" if I had joined the Sea Org. Maybe I would have, but I don't think so. There was a SO girl at Sydney who was pregnant. I don't know why she confided in me while we were in the cafeteria but she did. She was in tears and I was there. It might have been that simple. Anyway she told me she was pregnant and was being told she must abort, but she didn't want to. I told her that it's her life and if she wanted this baby she should route out or just leave. I was lucky she didn't report me. She did abort and I watched her become less & less alive as time went on. I felt so sorry for her. I knew then that I couldn't do the post of "abortion enforcer". Did any of you do this post?

Also when I was at the AO for training I saw the pompous RTC guys prancing around, yelling at staff (faceripping). I saw the staff come out of offices in tears, humiliated and degraded. You could hear the yelling from the waiting room/lounge down stairs particularly if it was a HCO staff getting their faces ripped off because HCO was on the ground floor too. If you went upstairs to the HGC you could hear the tech staff getting their faces ripped off. I knew then that I could never do or be that. We didn't do that. Tyrone Webb did that. He chose to do that over & over. Did he do it because it made him feel powerful? I don't know. How many of you on this board ever did that?

So when you talk about personal responsibility, I will and do take my own responsibility. I took the train every day. I worked 60 hours per week, every week. I wog jobbed 30 hours per week, every week. I missed my baby daughter's first birthday because I didn't refuse to go to Sydney for an ethics handling that was totally uncalled for. I was the one who stayed on staff for 7 years. I was the one who refused to read entheta for so long. I was the one who protested outside a Psychiatrist convention, shouting "Stop psychiatry!" I was the one who wrote KRs on my friends.

Of course there were people in the cult who seemed to enjoy inflicting nastiness on others (and held the posts that enabled and encouraged it) but that happens everywhere IRL

Exactly. Why shouldn't those people be asked the hard questions? I am NOT saying Mike Rinder enjoyed inflicting nastiness, not at all. In fact I don't believe he did. I think anything he did, he did for the "betterment" of his religion.

David Miscavige, Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, Guillaume Lesevre, Marc Yager, Norman Starkey, Ray Mithoff, Mark Ingber, Mike Sutter, Kurt Wieland, Monique Yingling, the list goes on and one. Where does the buck stop? Will anyone take responsibility and personally address the people they personally harmed? Or is this just not important? I don't know anymore.

Do you really think Mike Rinder gives a crap about Alanzo or anyone else making "entheta" remarks about him? I doubt it. If he feels he's done all he can then he should feel personally satisfied and not give two shits. Right now there are people "nattering their brains out" about me, and I just don't give 2 shits either. I'm expecting an expose on some blog about how Emma has flipped, or is getting paid, or really has gone insane. I imagine there is all sorts of investigations going on behind closed doors to see if I have any embarrassing bits in my past that can be bandied around back channel to prove these charges. Something like a bankruptcy, drug charge or DUI. Don't for ONE SECOND believe this can't be true. It is true. I've seen it done on others. There is proof right here on this board if you know the backstory and where to look. Yes Ops run on critics, by critics. But here's the thing. I DON'T CARE because I have nothing to hide. If Mike has nothing to hide he won't care either.

As for lurkers? One google search for Mike Rinder and they will see a whole other side. As for how lurkers see ESMB? I would hope as a place where we can ask all the questions.

 

[He-man]

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I know everything that went wrong in the world was our own fault while in the cult (because we 'pulled it all in'). ... is this some kind of delayed, reverse reaction?

I am NEVER talking about children or generational scientologists when I say things like that (I just want to make that 100% clear in case our resident bull-baiter wants to try and jump on it).

I'll leave it at that, I'm sorry if anyone finds my thoughts offensive but that was not the intention I can assure you.

Sorry, I never wanted to be that way, I hope you understand.

I never found your thoughts offensive, you seem down to earth to me.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Great post @Emma ... thank-you.

I also did not do any of the things you mention but I did recruit one person (to replace myself so I could escape/route out 'legally') and I have always felt really awful about that ... the good news is that apparently she met her husband and they both left after about a year, so that makes me feel a lot better because she was a lovely girl and didn't deserve it.

I think it's the venom I'm seeing around here recently that has really got under my skin ... there's no need for it. People can ask questions and even though they may never get replies to them (or at least not from the person or people they want them from) it can be a positive thing but the venom bothers me and it is so easy to get caught up in it and even join in.

Anyway ... it's good that we are talking this through and not just putting the gloves on and eyeing each other up across the canvas (lol) which is (I feel) what some people would like us all to be doing.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Sorry, I never wanted to be that way, I hope you understand.

I never found your thoughts offensive, you seem down to earth to me.

I love your posts! You have never upset me in any way ... I can feel your true intent and most of the time it's to create fun and laughter.

 

[He-man]

I love your posts! You have never upset me in any way ... I can feel your true intent and most of the time it's to create fun and laughter.

Oh no! Don't you dare bring out the "L" word!...

 

[ILove2Lurk]

David Miscavige, Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, Guillaume Lesevre, Marc Yager, Norman Starkey, Ray Mithoff, Mark Ingber, Mike Sutter, Kurt Wieland, the list goes on and one.

A regular rogues' gallery . . . .

Why no women on the list though, LOL?

We could include Monique Yingling, of course. The non-Scientologist "Scientologist."

Some listed are probably dupes in all this. Some are evil perpetrators and instigators.
I've never painted everyone with the same brush, but I have to think there's
some horrendous stories to be told about some of these guys, who were working around
each other and in the same halls for thirty years.

I wish someone would "drop the dime" and tell the real stories. I don't think anyone
has yet. That's all I've ever wanted and asked for.

 

[Emma]

We could include Monique Yingling, of course

Added.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

You could add the inch wives too ... (but they are still in aren't they, so maybe not). Hideous monsters though, every one of them.

 

[Alanzo]

A regular rogues' gallery . . . .

Why no women on the list though, LOL?

We could include Monique Yingling, of course. The non-Scientologist "Scientologist."

Some listed are probably dupes in all this. Some are evil perpetrators and instigators.
I've never painted everyone with the same brush, but I have to think there's
some horrendous stories to be told about some of these guys, who were working around
each other and in the same halls for thirty years.

I wish someone would "drop the dime" and tell the real stories. I don't think anyone
has yet. That's all I've ever wanted and asked for.

Exactly.

 

[Alanzo]

More shaming of Ex-Scientologists for even investigating this story.

This is a clear discrediting campaign of Ex-Scientologists by Aaron Smith Levin.

Why?