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Australians in Scientology

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Hi HA, re: "Do you consider my post to be "bashing up" of Julie and Steve?"
Probably not but one probably should take care with any criticism of others' actions in CofS; you never know, he/she might just be one of your favourite ESMBers.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron

Human Again

Silver Meritorious Patron
Lieutenant Commander Phyll Stevens

You didn’t cross Phyll.

Phyll was my first CO ANZO. Steve was CO TOURS, and I was recruited by Tours.. I was very surprised to find that new EPF graduates and SO members were looked at with disdain by the leaders of Scientology in ANZO. I was amazed that they didn't have a calm and assured space but seemed perpetually "under pressure", angry and looking for someone to blame. I never saw Phyll smile. Steve knew how to have a good time and joked around with public ans those staff and crew he liked. If someone got on his bad side, they were immediately on everyone's blacklist and could get brownie points by writing Krs on that person, or making a joke at their expense etc.

I never asked Steve Rule or Darnelle Bloomberg, who recuited me, why they did but I often wondered. It seemed to me that once I was there, I was unappriciated and disliked. Even when my stats were good I was never, ever "good enough". At 16/17 that is quite damaging psychologically. You'd think adults would be a llittle more mature. Today I realise it is the culture of the orgs, the COS that encouraged this disparaging, incompassionate, unforgiving attitude. People who might otherwise be quite easy to get along with had to protect themselves. That means going with the flavor of the day of the current leader. People who have a tendency to be cruel, dismissive and arrogant were patted on the back and rewarded.
 

Human Again

Silver Meritorious Patron
Hi HA, re: "Do you consider my post to be "bashing up" of Julie and Steve?"
Probably not but one probably should take care with any criticism of others' actions in CofS; you never know, he/she might just be one of your favourite ESMBers.


:yes: Ironically, that would be realy cool.

On this side of that particular interaction - I would be very ready to hear from anyone I mistreated while in the SO. If there is anyone on the board who had a bad deal from me, please let me know, I'd love the chance to apologuise. I delivered several "face rippings" and I am 100% sure all were motivated by my own insecurities, relish of power and fear of not upholding standards. Standards that I now see as false. So, it would be great to be able to converse with anone I hurt. Oh and anyone I recruited, if you're on the board and you want to have a piece of me for it, please let me know.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Interesting stories.

I knew Helen Shelton, Audrey Devlin and Rudi Eder. But where is the name of my mate Mick Parkee??? What ever happened to him? Please tell.



Originally posted by La La Lou Lou ...
Sorry to say, but I found out Phil Stannard died last year, a real shame, he was London staff then RPF and became CO Estates, lovely chap, one leg, could run twice as fast as anyone else with his crutches. Wicked sense of humour, hope he's gone on to another body, he deserved it. He was there though in the seventies if anyone could remember that far back. He was on the RPF with Mick Parkee, another human being. I think Mick's still around. keeping his head down I imagine, he always did.

...
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Lieutenant Commander Phyll Stevens

We did not get along at all-though she did at one point grant me Kha Khan status. Not that it did any good in the end.

I recall our first meeting. At Lee St around 1973 or 74.

Was talking with the then ED Helen Shelton (later to marry John Parselle) down in her office near reception. She indicated I should go over and meet Phyll, a “top SO exec” who had just arrived in Sydney on a mission.

So I walked over to introduce myself, offered my hand and she simply looked me up and down rather dismissively, without saying anything. I thought, “Wow. I really do not LIKE this woman.”

I was struck then by the immediacy and forcefulness of that thought.
There was little doubt in my mind that I had been viewed, assessed and rejected, so well could she project. Ya didn’t hafta be psychic to feel that wrath.

That pretty much set the tone for all future interaction between us.

Though she left me alone for the most part and we had no screaming matches to speak of (was pretty one-sided), I learned early on to be very wary of her.

Our first confrontation came not long after our first meeting. I was in the exec office trying to deal with some issue I had with Brian Rackham(Tech Sec-and there’s another fine piece of nasty work. See? I can judge harshly too! J) and suddenly Phyll is shouting at me “How dare you come in here and attack my upstat execs!!”.

Quite stunned, I turned to look at her and she shouts “DON’T TR-0 ME!”

That pretty much sealed things for me, in my own mind.

For one thing, I was not attacking at all. For another, Brian Rackham was a total prick and part of my surprise was the sudden realization that Phyll could not even see that! I thought, “holy shit! If she is so blind she can’t even see where that man is coming from, it really is going to be a me- versus-them scenario.”

And it certainly became that and remained so for the remainder of my time there.


I just hated being there so much.

To her credit, I believe Phyll did a lot of good work and was quite instrumental in “making” that org successful. But I hated never knowing from one time to the next what to expect in terms of her moods.

That’s the org “think”-that it is a positive thing to be able to express one’s current emotions without restraint or concern about repercussions. In other words, if you feel like shitting all over someone, it’s ok to do that. If they can’t deal with it, that’s their problem.

She could be positively vicious-fanaticism taken to the extreme.

Writing this, I am amazed at the sheer number of instances of abuse that come to mind. It’s almost like the attitude first exists and thereafter any action, thought, conduct, projection verbalization, etc in alignment with that attitude is somehow deemed “acceptable”. And the prevailing attitude must surely be no less than that of absolute contempt given the nature and prevalence of those abuses. This was/is endemic in the organization.

How truly bizarre.

(Pardon me. I wanted this to be a rant and instead, I am philosophizing. J)

But seriously, I think that to me, Phyll epitomized the sheer idiocy and irony of the situation. I was witness to an organization dedicated to freedom and truth being taken over by a draconian military regime! I didn’t sign up for that.


Probably Phyll’s greatest disdain was reserved not for those who left but for those even WANTING to leave. (How does that work? You treat them as slaves and when they object and want to leave you are completely indignant! Huh?)

But it’s true. It became a crime-written in policy- to even SPEAK to anyone about wanting to leave.

Forget about the terms of your contract.
You signed up for 5 years but at the end of that time could not leave unless you had a replacement.
A real catch-22.

As the only acceptable replacement could be someone with the same amount of training and experience as you, you were limited to those who had been in as long or longer than you.
You were trapped.

That happened to Noel O’Donnell. He did his 5 years after which he dared to leave in spite of her objections. His reward for those years of faithful service…? A Committee of Evidence, denial of further OT levels, etc. We slammed him. I know because I was on that Committee. To my everlasting shame, I went along with the findings mostly because I was in fear of the same thing happening to me as my time was also almost up.

You didn’t cross Phyll.

Phyll and I were on the original BC Course together: I used to get Phyll Stevens to laugh every day - I would say - "Hi Phyll - well what's the latest family disaster?" - she would crack-up every time :)
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi HA, re: "Do you consider my post to be "bashing up" of Julie and Steve?"
Probably not but one probably should take care with any criticism of others' actions in CofS; you never know, he/she might just be one of your favourite ESMBers.

No you should not "take care" here. That's one of the points of the place. If someone wants to defend themselves or another they shouldn't take care, either. State what you feel within the confines of the rules of the board. The demand of writing helps sort things out. It is in and of itself a very useful process. But only if one approaches it from one's true viewpoint.

Say what you want here. If that is screw the bastards, so be it.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Maybe I should have said "be aware that" rather than "take care". That's what I meant! :confused2:

Honestly I don't want to seem to be attacking you. The idea of the board is one can say what one feels. I don't want any qualifiers on that freedom. Viewpoints are not always easy to digest. But one understands from doing so. A main feature of the COS was a stop on understanding other viewpoints, obviously.

One is always entitled to express personal disagreement with someone's viewpoint but any general statement about what one should or shouldn't say might give a newbie the idea that they shouldn't say something. As you stated that was not what you meant. But even the further qualifier above I disagree with. One must liive within the rules of the board, but don't be careful because someone who treated you like dirt might be reading it. My opinion.
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron

Thanks. I think I was one of the few FEBC grads who managed to survive in the Orgs. Though I was kicked out for a while in '72 and '73. We were so poor at the time that a few nights I was a homeless waif. So, having a key to the Org, I slept on some cushions on the floor. I got booted out for that and some dumb other reasons - told to go and handle my situation. Came back onto the DofP post a year and a half later.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
Fair enough, we'll just have to agree to hold to different views on this. Mine is that what's done is done. :)

If you mean one is to forget the past this board is proof that is not a viable option for many. That may mean some redressing takes place. One has perspective when one has it, not before. If you want the last word, be my guest.
 

Carmel

Crusader
Honestly I don't want to seem to be attacking you. The idea of the board is one can say what one feels. I don't want any qualifiers on that freedom. Viewpoints are not always easy to digest. But one understands from doing so. A main feature of the COS was a stop on understanding other viewpoints, obviously.

One is always entitled to express personal disagreement with someone's viewpoint but any general statement about what one should or shouldn't say might give a newbie the idea that they shouldn't say something. As you stated that was not what you meant. But even the further qualifier above I disagree with. One must liive within the rules of the board, but don't be careful because someone who treated you like dirt might be reading it. My opinion.

I agree with what you have said here, but with a qualifier.

Chat gets deleted after 12 hours, but posts remain - if one is somewhat aware of potential audiences on the board, then one is less likely to post something that they may later regret posting. Yes, we live within the rules of the board, but we also have our own perameters in regard to what effects we are willing to create and experience. Awareness of potential effects, can't be a bad thing IMO.
 

ozzie

Patron with Honors
Steve Stevens Jr

Some info for those who might care - Steve was originally married to my sister Liz, they married at FOLO UK shortly after joining the SO there and then they were transferred to ANZO on a command team type mission. Liz became the CO FOLO ANZO and Steve did Tours.

Liz went to Flag for some handling and some training and received a letter from Steve with his wedding ring in it. That was the first she knew that he had started another relationship and this was with Fleur. Both Steve and Fleur were called to Flag to get handled. Needless to say Liz and Steve divorced and Liz spent the next so many years in a relationship with Brian Rackham.

I always thought Steve was a dip shit - sorry! But he struck me as being a bit of an arrogant SOB! He sure loved the ladies.

What a twat!

Ozzie:yes:
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
I agree with what you have said here, but with a qualifier.

Chat gets deleted after 12 hours, but posts remain - if one is somewhat aware of potential audiences on the board, then one is less likely to post something that they may later regret posting. Yes, we live within the rules of the board, but we also have our own perameters in regard to what effects we are willing to create and experience. Awareness of potential effects, can't be a bad thing IMO.

I agree! That censorship is self directed. I am only concerned that new people to the board don't get muzzled except as they themselves, or moderators, choose to. As you well know there is a sledgehammer effect on communication in the COS, but the after effects can be subtle.

PS: Ozzie's post above is a shining example of freedom of communicaiton
 

Feral

Rogue male
Some info for those who might care - Steve was originally married to my sister Liz, they married at FOLO UK shortly after joining the SO there and then they were transferred to ANZO on a command team type mission. Liz became the CO FOLO ANZO and Steve did Tours.

Liz went to Flag for some handling and some training and received a letter from Steve with his wedding ring in it. That was the first she knew that he had started another relationship and this was with Fleur. Both Steve and Fleur were called to Flag to get handled. Needless to say Liz and Steve divorced and Liz spent the next so many years in a relationship with Brian Rackham.

I always thought Steve was a dip shit - sorry! But he struck me as being a bit of an arrogant SOB! He sure loved the ladies.

What a twat!

Ozzie:yes:

Geez Ozzie, Your poor sis has had a crap run with the blokes, doesn't that make it three duds? That's a trifecta!
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
If you mean one is to forget the past this board is proof that is not a viable option for many. That may mean some redressing takes place. One has perspective when one has it, not before. If you want the last word, be my guest.
OK. thanks Nex.

You seem to be reading something into my post to Human Again that isn't there.

Nobody is talking about censorship except you, at least I'm not. I'm giving friendly advice to a girl I care much about. When I advise her to "take care" in what she says about individuals I'm pointing to the fact that she could well be talking about someone who is already here at ESMB and in the midst of their own healing from scn process.

I don't think any of us would wish to deliberately hurt others nor make their journey out of scn any more painful than it has to be. Human Again is a caring individual. You also strike me as a caring individual.

As to my statement, "what's done is done"; again, you seem to be assigning it a meaning different from mine. I don't mean "forget the past", if I'd meant that I would have said that.
What I mean is, accept it as having occurred. Nothing you do, here and now, will make it unhappen, you can only choose to accept it and move on or continue to wear it and suffer further. This was stated simply as my personal belief, not as advice to others.

Feel free to respond, I don't believe in last words. :)
 

ttamaad

Silver Meritorious Patron
<snip>
As to my statement, "what's done is done"; again, you seem to be assigning it a meaning different from mine. I don't mean "forget the past", if I'd meant that I would have said that.
What I mean is, accept it as having occurred. Nothing you do, here and now, will make it unhappen, you can only choose to accept it and move on or continue to wear it and suffer further. This was stated simply as my personal belief, not as advice to others.

I agree that what has happened aint going to unhappen... I would add that part of the "healing" process (if thats the right word) is stating and talking about what happened.

You, and many others, myself included, have encouraged people to tell their story and many times the story of actual events have mentioned people who were involved. Its part and parcel of the process. If those people involved are now here (for example) and going through their own process, then they have the chance to also talk about their experience and I am sure that everyone will do their utmost to support and encourage.

On a personal note... and nothing to do with any posts particularly but because this is in the Australians in Scn thread... My old man, isn't the man I once knew.. he has become a cold heartless bastard where he has tried to decimate my own (and his) family with lies and innuendos yet he feels he is right as he is in scn

He has called members of my (and his) family "Criminals" and many other derogatory statements... all untrue.

...and scn can drive a man to believe this about his own family with no actual events or reasoning, but the man himself also makes a choice. Despite it all, we are responsible for our own actions whether they be now or in the past.

*edited to add* The reason I post this is that I feel it is important for people to know about. The more people the better... if we can stop just one more person becoming involved in scn then, it is my belief that, the story is worth it. */edit*
 
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Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Yes, we each approach the journey in our own way.
We each choose our own path to wherever we're going.
That's as it should be.
As I said, "This was stated simply as my personal belief, not as advice to others."
 
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