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Keeping Scientology Working and OTIII Evaluations

What I never liked about Scientology is that one "gets better" as an "effect" of auditing. I always preferred a more proactive approach. Like magic, or visualization, or various forms of meditation, etc. Digging into the invisible realm.


What I like about scientology is that it provides a useful framework to facilitate the experience of cognitions/epiphanies. Many techniques for generating such experiences exist, however I find that scientology auditing can be particularly effective in achieving such.


Mark A. Baker
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
What I like about scientology is that it provides a useful framework to facilitate the experience of cognitions/epiphanies. Many techniques for generating such experiences exist, however I find that scientology auditing can be particularly effective in achieving such.


Mark A. Baker

Like buying a shoe so that you can 'adjust' your feet to fit.

Zinj
 
Like buying a shoe so that you can 'adjust' your feet to fit.

Zinj

If there is one thing we can all agree it is that Scientologists are masters at adjusting their feet to fit whatever it is Hubbard convinced them is a shoe

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Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
What I like about scientology is that it provides a useful framework to facilitate the experience of cognitions/epiphanies. Many techniques for generating such experiences exist, however I find that scientology auditing can be particularly effective in achieving such.


Mark A. Baker

What I like about music is the better one becomes as a performer, the more fantastic the experience. There is no describing the euphoria when playing great chamber music with other good performers. (Not quite what you expected, but the end result is the pure joy you envision.)
 

Vinaire

Sponsor
He's not the first conman to be taken down by his own con game, but what's mind blowing is people still to this day ... try to legitimize it as something more than just a con game he created in order to use people to help him obtain a set of self servicing goals.


Looks like you have some confusion here, because you have been talking about this situation repeatedly for quite some time.

Have you taken any steps to address this confusion? Where do you suppose this confusion began?

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Looks like you have some confusion here, because you have been talking about this sitaution repeatedly for quite some time.

Have you taken any steps to address this confusion? Where do you suppose this confusion began?

.

...says the man who after 8,300 posts still hasn't been able to get beyond the word "dramitization" ... maybe the next time you see your therapist you should ask him why you waste so much time on this board trying to distract people from the truth
 

Pierrot

Patron with Honors
I have following questions:

(1) Do you think Hubbard lost control of his creation "Scientology"? Or, did he do exactly what he set out to do with the subject?

(2) If Hubbard was consistent in his writings on Scientology, then did he mix his opinions with the subject to get the sordid outcome he got? Where did he go wrong?

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Nice choice of words, Vinaire, huh...? - if we agreed Hubbard's work was con-sistent rather than consistent we could end this thread right here.

When asked "was Hubbard a genius or a con-man" I reply "a genius comes with his flaws. And if his intention was only to con he could have done 1/2 of his work, no - 1/100th of his works, and still have power and money and a more extravagant life"

No, he didn't lose control as far as the Tech and its function is concerned. He delivered. The structure of the Tech, the presentation, might have been different if he was, let's say, a Swiss and neutral. Maybe the Tech would have been more organized and run like a clock.

We played it "allegro presto", now an interlude, time for an "adagio lento' and then back into the groove again. A thread has to breathe a bit ;-)
 

Pepin

Patron with Honors
Well I don't necessarily perceive it that way. Yes, if you look at mainstream media it definitely seems as you say. Humanity has been pretty much shaken in the past few years with one catastrophy following the other and extreme fear mongering from the media. How many apparently deadly diseases and end of times scenarios were let loose on humanity in the past 10 to 20 years, yet mass consciousness has withstood pretty well so far and that speaks for itself. However the current trial and tribulation (swine flu) is one of the toughest ones and will prove in which direction humanity will head.

What does that have to do with the majority of people thinking they are a body?

That IS what we were talking about.OTIII case/charge, stimulation etc...
 
What does that have to do with the majority of people thinking they are a body?

That IS what we were talking about.OTIII case/charge, stimulation etc...

Where are you getting this "majority" from? I'm not sure I've ever never met a person who thinks they are just a body ... have you?
 
For quite a long time I envied people who were there in the 50s, 60s or like you in the 70s. Then, since I read the stories related by Old Timers, I'm glad I got into Scn beginning of the 80s. Just after the whole of the Tech was rounded up, and just before it all became like a McDonald in the spiritual or mental field, with the Big Mac at upper levels, and if one complained one was foreced to eat a Big Mac with a salad.

I know what you're talking about. I lived that from the inside. And could write also a book about it.

When I "joined" they proposed me to sign a 2 1/2 yrs contract - me as Qual, studying the whole Tech was part of the deal. When shown the Bridge I asked how long to go from one end to the other, that OT thing up there. They said 2 1/2 years. I was naive - 2 1/2 = 2 1/2 - so I signed.

To cut the story short - I ended up in the Bookstore. Having time, I did read the books, running the processes as I got along, despite what was saying my friend in Qual. At one point they said I need to do the Clear check. So I sold one of my guitars - a Goldtop Gibson LesPaul I played with as a teenager in all kinds of bands. I got that Clear Check in Paris.... all the hours were burned by word clearing delivered by a student. Then it took 1 minute to tell me about what I already knew.

At this point all my inner Red lights went on!

As I was making more money selling books that they were making on GI - I was to become a Reg. I had no interest in Finances, Selling - interest in money was the lowest on my list. I thought Karma is really mean proposing me the toughest post. And I took the challenge soon becoming a very good Reg.

There was no time for study as a staff member, especially as a Reg. But I knew since the "guitar LesPaul" incident I had to know the rules of the game. So I continued to read, study on my own all the policies pertaining to my post. They didn't like it much - for instance, I never allowed any of my prospect to borrow money for services, showing the policy where he writes "never borrow money". So even though I was considered a shark Reg, all my prospects remained friends.

I had 3 major Ethics Conditions assigned, and I still chuckle when thinking about them. The 3rd one was at the end. Friends were hurt, I wrote reports showing where the Tech principles were violated. I got thanked with a non-enturbulation order. Disgusted I left. The 2d one was close to the end of my staff contract - I was fed up being on an Admin post, I wanted the Tech. The EO from DK wanted me to become an FSM I/C or so. I refused. I said I had my OT levels and training up to Class VIII paid for at Saint Hill. I wanted to get trained up to VIII and come back to help. So I was expelled, with a funny SP declare. At this time my first kid was born and we knew Scn environment was not a good place to raise a kid - we were happy to leave and I went back to my guitars. That lasted a year till they lifted my expulsion order and I could go on studying more Scn.

The 1st major Ethics Condition was while I was staff. I write it for Lionheart, who said he enjoyed my post about handing the OTIII materials asking for the genuine one.

You know about the pressure of that Brithday Game, I don't need to tell you what it was when a Reg. Calls from DK, from LA, from all around pressure from the CO, staffs meetings, the ship is sinking, ... complete madness.

So at some point I was ssigned a Low condition and had to clean-up the stairs as amends project.... Cool, there I am washing the staircase. Then I start to wash the corridor. Meanwhile - the CO had to hold the post from above. That means she was stuck in my Reg room 24/7. Suddenly the whole Org started to breath again, the staffs were smiling. On Wednesday the CO found me - "Have you finished your condition write-up? !!! Where are you in your conditions? !!!"

I said I'm working on it, and considering all my deeds seriously. Besides - I found out the course room is dirty, and some other rooms too. And I feel I didn't contribute enough. And, don't you know, Ron says that the public image and a clean Org will increase the GI ten folds or more. If her looks could kill I wouldn't be here writing this post. Next Thursday I was back on post without any trouble. As she crashed the stat, I had easy time to plan ithe thread for next 2 months and enjoy my time. And I wasn't bothered by conditions anymore.

A good friend told me a simlar story, years after we were both out of Scn. He was on a special contract at Saint Hill, for a year, in exchange for his Academy Levels he supervised the SHSBC course. So somewhere along the line he was assigned a low condition... as there was an epidemy of lice in the Sea Org his amends project was ... - to find out who was infested with lice and who was not. So he goes around, finds a staff "show me your head, please" examines the hair. And all those staffs were all around the place. He had to go to Stonelands, East Grinstead, ... Meanwhile the Tech Sec had to hold the post from above.

So, that beautifull redhaired Angela finds him finally on Wednesday, "So, did you finish your conditions??? how is it going???" she was in despair.

My friend replied "I still didn't finish counting lice, I'm working on it" - he was restored very quickly on post and never bothered again.

I remember having a conversation with Michael Lanciai, we were friends then. Once he wanted me to join the Sea Org. "What are you going to do when you're going to be a bg thetan after OTVIII? When you're bigger than the Galaxy, you're not going to play guitar?" He was a rock singer before. I replied:"Precisely Michael - Jimi Hendrix already brought the Blues at a Galactic level. When I'm OTVIII it's my duty to play guitar". As I shifted his paradigm, he coudn't reply. SHould I say "the guitar saved my life?"

When I went out of the CofS I had many friends who went out too. Some were in a very bad shape after what happened to them in the orgs. So - I started to audit some of them then - to get them back into Life. With that past behind. Ex-Sea Org members too. I know about the DPF, RPF, I know what they lived through.



I understand what you mean. I will answer that in a post to Vinaire, as he has some Tech questions that relate to what you're saying here.

Look - I didn't expect to participate in this thread for so long. But all right, since we started, I'll write more. It's just a question of me taking the time.

A couple of weeks ago I finished making slide doors for someone I love. 12 doors, 3meters high 1 meter wide, massive oak, for 6 appartements. I love heavy physical work. Because too many sessions, to many unwanted conditions disapearing, as-isness - my body would proportionally want to take up weight.

I love working with wood - next will be an acoustic guitar, a crossbread of a Martin with a Gibson. Then I'll build several electric guitars - LesPauls. The guys who supervise my work say Gibson, the original LesPaul maker, is doing a lousy job. So I better prepare.

And when I will have built my first Les Paul, and play with that on stage, that will be the last cycle which will finish my past in Scientology. That Goldtop I sold innocently....





lol!

Ok - stay tuned, I'll explain what I mean later on. We will tie the loose ends together.

My stable datum when studying Scn, be it lower levels, or OT III, IX or XV - whatever datum I'm shown if the concept was not stated or hinted at in DSMSH or developed shortly afterwards, I consider it not true. Not true inside of the Scn paradigm, of course.

I also wonder if I have time for these discussions. Right now I don't have much time, so will re read your post later today. I am glad to have your story about your history as a staffer.
I'm looking forward to you "tying up those loose ends"
But, not to put too finer point on it, please don't try to stitch me up when you do it. Terril has labelled or described you as an "intellectual", and I have said that you seem to see yourself as smarter than others. Please don't try to bend my mind around things that you said in haste about DMSMH only to find that they are not true and have to be very creatively coached into line with the idea that if YOU said it or thought it, that it MUST be true, someway, somehow, through some paradigm or some perspective. Sometimes people just make a mistake.
 

Winston Smith

Flunked Scientology
We played it "allegro presto", now an interlude, time for an "adagio lento' and then back into the groove again. A thread has to breathe a bit ;-)

I don't want to pull a Sneakster, but in 45 years in the music profession I have never seen "allegro presto" notated. Likewise I don't think I have ever seen "adagio lento." Presto is very very fast, allegro is lively. Adagio is "at ease." Lento is usually very slow, in fact so slow that we fall asleep playing, unless it is Beethoven or Mahler. NOW, add "molto" to adagio, and that is in lento territory. Add "molto" to either allegro or presto and all bets are off on how fast it ends up.

Just ruminations of an old fart classical musician. Not criticizing really.
 

Pierrot

Patron with Honors
I don't want to pull a Sneakster, but in 45 years in the music profession I have never seen "allegro presto" notated. Likewise I don't think I have ever seen "adagio lento." Presto is very very fast, allegro is lively. Adagio is "at ease." Lento is usually very slow, in fact so slow that we fall asleep playing, unless it is Beethoven or Mahler. NOW, add "molto" to adagio, and that is in lento territory. Add "molto" to either allegro or presto and all bets are off on how fast it ends up.

Just ruminations of an old fart classical musician. Not criticizing really.

Thanks for straightening that up from the Classical Musician perspective. I love listening to Mahler, it's pure aesthetics to me. I guess if I was a pianst I'd be more into Beethoven. I love Villa-Lobos, I wished he'd have composed more for guitar.

Nowadays I study Barrios. I like to play it as close as possible to the original score instructions. And after I can play it, I include what I learned into Jazz, adding technique, flavours, etc.
 
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