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For the Rathbun "Believers"

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
I see it now, Veda. Worldwide Event. DM gives impassioned speech about all the amazing things achieved under his watch for 3 decades....and how cosmically challenging it was to attempt to wear Ron's "Boots in The Sky". He confesses with well-drill humility that he had a terrible overt in his quest to do what the Old Man personally trusted him to do (save the Earth)...and that's an overt of omission where he failed to demand personal enhancement time for himself. Yes, he selflessly put "duty" above all else and that is his only overt. But now he will enjoy the 50,000 hours of backlogged "2.5 hours a day" that was missed. The crowd erupts, standing ovation. Tears flow. Cameras pan as parishioners think or say the thought "That's so Theta!" in 232 languages.

DM pulls the velcrowed tabs of his Sea Org uniform and it "snaps" off revealing the new kicked-back DM wearing bermuda shorts, flip-flops and a festive Hawaiian shirt. Marty is introduced as the new boss. New standing ovation.

DM and Marty stand uncomfortably close and begin saluting each other.Then Tom Cruise hops on stage and they take turns saluting each other. Wall-sized images of DM and Cruise and Rathburn appear with the words "Loyal Officer" superimposed. A 3 story high titanium-engraved plate is revealed with LRH's photo. The most dedicated Scientologists in world continue saluting one another and Ron's image to thunderous applause.

After a half-hour ovation, people eventually begin to take their seats (but not before camera-yielding OSA members document the first ones to stop applauding and sit down).

Marty calmly tells the ten million Scientologists watching him that Ron only wanted for them to be FREE to think FREE and to act FREE. And because of the unprecedented Power stats of Scn worldwide, the severe gradients of Ethics can finally, finally, finally be relaxed after 60 years. Marty screams repeatedly "YOU'RE FREE!!!" The audience is beside itself. In orgs around the planet, spontaneous chants erupt of "THAT'S SO THETA!!"

Marty assures the 10 million faithful that THIS is all that Ron ever wanted for them. FREEDOM!!! ENDLESS FREEDOM to think or say or do anything!!! But Marty has to cut his speech a little bit short because the fervor is so great that Scientologists begin speaking in tongues, swooning and falling backwards with their eyes rolled up as the power of all this freed-up theta is unleashed.

Faithful parishioners cry and hug each other screaming "We're FREE!!!! We're FREE!!! Thank Ron almighty, we're FREE AT LAST!!!"

Just before the event ends an announcement is made that there is a new ten-volume book release. It contains all of the things that Ron says a "Free Being" thinks, says and does.

People rush to get in line for their copy of "RON'S COMPLETE AND AUTHORIZED LIST OF ALL THOUGHTS, STATEMENTS & ACTIONS OF A STANDARDLY FREE BEING".

Overheard above the admiring gasps of "That's so theta!" a weeping OT VIII confesses: "Now we finally & truly know how to be free just the way Ron wanted!!!"

You have a gift.
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
While I am enjoying the back and forth I suddenly realized that I actually need to pay some kudos to one particular person.

Claire Swazey.

Yep Claire and I have argued about almost everything, and she can drive me to distraction.

But Claire has way more courage than Marty and his Ilk, she has stood up for what she believes in, she spoke openly on ARS when she was in and got declared for it.

She has real courage. Maybe you can get some of it to rub off on Rathbun, Claire. I doubt it though.

Anyway Claire - just for once I wanted to pay some respect to you for your heart and your courage - while disagreeing with you on almost everything else!

:) ^^^that^^

:booze: To Fluff: For courage under fire
Who valiantly returns again and again into the lion's den to be roared and clawed at (and sometimes has bits eaten off and spat out) to defend what she believes is right.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Marty had been out for some years prior to this. He didn't have to "find out wtf was was going on, and/or what was behind all the crap" because he knew what was, and he was one of the few who perpetrated a lot of it. Yet he 'sat' on it for some years. Why? And what caused his change of heart?

What gave Marty the impetus to finally speak out when he did? Was it remorse? Was it the realization that he had better be seen to be doing the right thing (now that the truth was coming out), in order to save his own ass from the legal authorities? Or was it a bright idea to capitalize on the hoards of people now leaving the church in droves?

Hi Carmel,
Speaking as one of the majority here that love you, :)

If I recall correctly it took you, and per many others stories quite
some time to come to terms with all this. Being a fast learner I did most of it in two years. Currently working on my masters. :)

Marty has done conditions etc with one who as cramming officer was famous for tearing up DM crams and doing it his way.

he's already got a following of people who aren't even questioning why the fuck he doesn't blow the lid off the CofS when they should know that he is one of the very few people who could; etc, etc; etc (no need for me to write a 'book' on it here, when his blog tells a story).

Some may ask, why should some of us distrust him so, but I would ask, why would so many trust him?

One don't have to.

He's so far blown off several lids re COS, RTC and Shorty. This is FAR more important than his following which per posts seems minimal .

However, those who lurk there may be far more in number, Ms penguin seems to validate that.

Save his ass? All he has to do is keep quite instead of inviting Shorty to sue!

Meanwhile he has Xenu and his lawyers on his ass, and surely you understand he has to play his cards close to his chest?

Then how to rescue those in COS?

Simple. Call Hubbard an asshole. :)
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Gee; imagine the co-conspirators in the 'Great Train Robbery' *suing* each other for not dividing up the loot fairly :)

That's rich Terrill; 'Shorty' (is that the best Marty can come up with?) is *not* going to 'sue' Marty. Or even lean on him. Because, Marty's not going to 'sue' him either. He's not even going say anything that might make Davey nervous.

Zinj
 
Hi Carmel,
Speaking as one of the majority here that love you, :)

If I recall correctly it took you, and per many others stories quite
some time to come to terms with all this. Being a fast learner I did most of it in two years. Currently working on my masters. :)

Marty has done conditions etc with one who as cramming officer was famous for tearing up DM crams and doing it his way.



One don't have to.

He's so far blown off several lids re COS, RTC and Shorty. This is FAR more important than his following which per posts seems minimal .

However, those who lurk there may be far more in number, Ms penguin seems to validate that.

Save his ass? All he has to do is keep quite instead of inviting Shorty to sue!

Meanwhile he has Xenu and his lawyers on his ass, and surely you understand he has to play his cards close to his chest?

Then how to rescue those in COS?

Simple. Call Hubbard an asshole. :)

It's absolutely adorable who he has you kids calling Miscavige Xenu now, does he also have his followers taking 12 hour shifts with a telescope looking for L. Ron Hubbard's space ship yet, like Bill Robertson did?
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Gee; imagine the co-conspirators in the 'Great Train Robbery' *suing* each other for not dividing up the loot fairly :)

That's rich Terrill; 'Shorty' (is that the best Marty can come up with?) is *not* going to 'sue' Marty. Or even lean on him. Because, Marty's not going to 'sue' him either. He's not even going say anything that might make Davey nervous.

Zinj

I understand that you are intelligent and not a " hater".

How about saying publically DM committed crimes. [ beatings]?

????
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I understand that you are intelligent and not a " hater".

How about saying publically DM committed crimes. [ beatings]?

????

I have no doubt that David Miscavige has committed crimes. Including beating people and ordering people beaten.

I strongly suspect that he's ordered people not only beaten but *murdered*. Marty would know more about that, but, he's not going to talk.

Zinj
 

Terril park

Sponsor
It's absolutely adorable who he has you kids calling Miscavige Xenu now, does he also have his followers taking 12 hour shifts with a telescope looking for L. Ron Hubbard's space ship yet, like Bill Robertson did?

You are an idiot with strong troll tendancies.

Can't catch the irony and metaphors.

Not been looking for spaceships.

You seem expert here. Tell us mo0re re spaceships.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Oh well,
Just posted this on an FZ forum.

-------------
IMO the downfall of COS, and extremely negative view of scientology by the world in general is primarily due to its history of injustice. Just for starters , every disconnection is an extreme violation of justice. Then the executives have a record of frequently, and probably usually interfering with the judicial, who frequently are expected to do their work after midnight, when they are tired and just want to go home. Command intention has traditionally ruled out any attempts at justice.


There are many nice statements in green on white on the subject, but this has not prevented fatal flaws in the scn justice system.



"(11) The only overt in handling justice is not to work for the greatest good of the greatest number. "


This is again IMO a flawed statement, specially when put in the context of other issues.

Disconnections, declares, other weird justice actions may apparently be for the greatest good, but in the longer term alienate the public. Every disconnection, injustice. probably results in dozens of people who will never look at the subject of scientology ever.


I'd say the only overt re justice is to get matters wrong.


From HCOPL 24 feb 1972 INJUSTICE



" The cycle is, goofs are made. The real why is not located or handled, and

when this happens angry executives, who have to pick up the ball start shooting."


That this can happen is a string to pull re the failures of the scn justice system.


From the same PL:-


" Any staff member who does not know ethics policy is a clay pidgeon."


In the " wog" world we get to choose our own lawyer.


" But it sometimes happens that injustices occur......"


" Usually this occurs because because the staff member is pitifully ignorant of his rights."


One might say by joining staff, one then becomes a victim.


"Psychiatry .........uses the "justice" procedures developed in the days of witch burning, unknown accusers, opinions only, punished before being tried, etc."


" Lord forbid we ever fall into such barbarism ourselves."


You become that which you resist?



> "JUSTICE- The only thing which can actually remedy a general insecure
> feeling is a renewed faith in justice.


Here are a couple of webpages discussing these issues which do

a far better job than I of looking at this area.


http://www.freezoneearth.org/HolyCows/cows/06justice.htm


http://www.freezoneearth.org/HolyCows/cows/06justice.htm


bb
 

Veda

Sponsor
Freezoners parroting Marty Rathbun's wordings and phrasings. I guess he's the new "winning valence" for them, after L. Ron of course.
 

Terril park

Sponsor
I have no doubt that David Miscavige has committed crimes. Including beating people and ordering people beaten.

I strongly suspect that he's ordered people not only beaten but *murdered*. Marty would know more about that, but, he's not going to talk.

Zinj

He already has to the media?

What you up to?
 
You are an idiot with strong troll tendancies.

Can't catch the irony and metaphors.

Not been looking for spaceships.

You seem expert here. Tell us mo0re re spaceships.

Why the hostilities? Are you going to pretend that you are not aware that Bill Robertson "the founder of the freezoner" along with other freezoners set up shifts to look for the return of L. Ron Hubbard in a space ship? It's not surprising Marty would pick gullible freezoners to prey upon. Turning Miscavige into Xenu 2.0 only makes perfect sense for this reality show train wreck.
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is directed to those who have posted about how they think Rathbun is going to make some sort of difference to Scientology.

Dream on.

When he was in - when he had the power and authority within the CofS , he did absolutely nothing.

No wait, let me take that back - he did everything DM told him to do.

And when punches and kicks were thrown - where was Rathbun? Cringing in the corner.

When Scientologists and Sea Org Members were being abused - did he stand up and speak for the victims? Did he fight against DM? Did he stop the violence? Nope.

And now he is out and you think this cringing git is going to lead the charge?

Good luck with that.

Mick,

is the word ‘redemption’ in your lexicon?

Axiom142
 

EP - Ethics Particle

Gold Meritorious Patron
The best of times, the worst of times...

I don't personally feel any hate or resentment towards Marty. By the same token though, the thought of the effect that Marty and his clan are now having on 'exes' and fence sitters, chills me to the core, and that has led to me having a problem with Marty.

I can't help but think of those years ago, when critics risked so much, did so much, and copped so much, to expose the abuses of the CofS which were the result of the Scientology "package". After going through hell and high water, those critics finally got that heavy 'mother' of a ball rolling, to the point where it took off like an exponential curve.

From Freezoners through to Anons, there has been just so much work done by so many, to expose the CofS for what it is, and the Scientology "package" for what it is in its entirety. Hundreds and thousands have looked, seen, and started on the road to recovery because 1) they were predisposed to finding out wtf was going on and what was behind all the crap, and 2) there were answers and support. How long and how much effort by so many, did it take to get to the point where it was, earlier this year, prior to the St Pete's Times articles?

Marty had been out for some years prior to this. He didn't have to "find out wtf was was going on, and/or what was behind all the crap" because he knew what was, and he was one of the few who perpetrated a lot of it. Yet he 'sat' on it for some years. Why? And what caused his change of heart?

What gave Marty the impetus to finally speak out when he did? Was it remorse? Was it the realization that he had better be seen to be doing the right thing (now that the truth was coming out), in order to save his own ass from the legal authorities? Or was it a bright idea to capitalize on the hoards of people now leaving the church in droves?

Bloody hell! So many have done so much, and gotten so far in regard to exposing the CofS and Scientology (in its entirety), for what it is and for what it's responsible for. Then along comes Marty, at the eleventh hour, blaming it all on DM (when he was one of DM's #1 henchmen); he was one who actively implemented and forwarded the crap we all object to; he takes little or no responsibility for what he did (giving 'sufficient' lip service, hardly cuts the mustard); he remains tight lipped about the corporate structure and 'scam' of the 'church'; he's rallied 'allies'; fence sitters and some exes are treating him like some kind of hero/saviour; newly or would be "outs" are latching on to his explanation for all that has transpired (because as we know, facing the scam and having the loss, is a tough one...blaming it all on DM is much more confrontable and a far easier ride); he's already got a following of people who aren't even questioning why the fuck he doesn't blow the lid off the CofS when they should know that he is one of the very few people who could; etc, etc; etc (no need for me to write a 'book' on it here, when his blog tells a story).

Some may ask, why should some of us distrust him so, but I would ask, why would so many trust him?

The ironic thing is, that's it's mainly the "Scios" or "techies" who are trusting him. Those who you would think would be looking at things like; "Look Don't Listen"; the condition formulas below Non-E; the Data Series; Precept 17 of TWTH; the success with application of some of the PR Series; responsibility on four flows; the reference where it says that ya cop the condition ya don't assign; yadda, yadda, yadda. For some reason though, these references don't apply to the likes of Marty, just like they didn't apply to the likes of DM (and for way too long).

I'm not one of those who threw the baby out with all the bath water. Some label me as a "pro techie". I'm not "anti" Freezone, although personally, I would never again pursue Scn nor suggest anyone else to. I'm not anti anyone for what they believe in, and I'm not "anti" Marty because of what he did in the past. It is what he has not done since he left and what he is doing now, that bothers me.

I am very "anti", when it comes to anything and everything that cuts across the truth of Scn and the truth of CofS being exposed. I'm also dumbfounded as to how so many "pro techies" can put so much trust and faith in a man (and/or flow so much admiration and support), when that man hasn't acknowledged nor anywhere near made up the damage, for what he has done - it's all relative. I don't think Marty should be 'damned' or never trusted because of his history. However, nor do I think that he should be trusted or supported at this time, given his omission of responsibility and lack of action to date.

The idea of anyone conning the masses to believing that this was all DM's doing (while shoving his or her own related 'crimes' under the carpet), and 'safeguarding' the 'church' so it can or may continue, makes me want to vomit, cry, and oppose.

What happens to all that hard work over the last decade or two? Are the "Marty" supporters happy to see all that go down the girgler, and then inevitably after a period of time, have another three decades of human rights abuses repeat themselves, before a whole new wave of people (years down the track) see it again and rally together to fight it, all over again?

I am pissed off that so many have gotten on the band wagon. I am fearful for the future, and I can't handle the idea that so much may well be in serious jeopardy right now as a result of yet another con man doing his tricks, with people falling for it, all over again - We have been so damn close to exposing the whole fucking scam and bringing down the CofS - I consider that what Marty is doing, as a major threat to that.

There aren't just 'two' sides to all of this. Being a Scio doesn’t mean you’re a “bad guy” and being a “critic” doesn’t mean you’re a good guy – Fool ANYONE who thinks that it does.

I have read this thread and like Carmel's post the best! :clap: :thumbsup:

This is true. :whistling:

EP
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Why the hostilities? Are you going to pretend that you are not aware that Bill Robertson "the founder of the freezoner" along with other freezoners set up shifts to look for the return of L. Ron Hubbard in a space ship? It's not surprising Marty would pick gullible freezoners to prey upon. Turning Miscavige into Xenu 2.0 only makes perfect sense for this reality show train wreck.

This is better. Not looked for spaceships myself. They havn't
looked for me.

Marty is not looking for Freezoners.
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
While I am enjoying the back and forth I suddenly realized that I actually need to pay some kudos to one particular person.

Claire Swazey.

Yep Claire and I have argued about almost everything, and she can drive me to distraction.

But Claire has way more courage than Marty and his Ilk, she has stood up for what she believes in, she spoke openly on ARS when she was in and got declared for it.

She has real courage. Maybe you can get some of it to rub off on Rathbun, Claire. I doubt it though.

Anyway Claire - just for once I wanted to pay some respect to you for your heart and your courage - while disagreeing with you on almost everything else!


You are such a lambie pie!!

It's healthy for us to disagree. I would get so bored if I only was around people who liked exactly the same things I liked in the same ways for the same reasons. I'd never get to hear about new books, new ologies, or new isms or new movies or new fashions, even. And I'd still be in the cult, too.

I drive John to distraction too- and he's married to me...heh.

I can certainly try to comm with Marty but it's doubtful that he'll listen to me. Maybe my cockeyed optimism has weighed in my defense of him. I was thrilled that he left and thrilled that he did go to the press.

Some other pals of mine in the critic's scene are concerned that he wants to maybe take over a new revamped CofS with himself at the helm or pretty close to it. As you know, I am NOT chuffed with the idea of a new CofS. I forsee waaaay too many problems with that scenario. I thought he was just doing his own thing, "tech"wise and I'm all for that. But maybe they're right. And if they are- then I go on record here and now saying, don't do it. CofS needs to GO. I really think that. I didn't used to think that several years ago but I do now.

I know that very few people here - maybe none- have done anywhere near as much to people as Messrs Rathbun and Rinder when they were in the cult. But I do know that some of us have things we did that we feel bad about, even so.

A concern I have is-- can we make it "safe" (kinda using the Scnese form of the word here. My apologies.) for ex sr CofS management to come out of the cult and into the ex member/critic scene? I mean, if we're too rough on them, then that's not going to make them any more willing to help our cause(s). I know that evil should not be condoned, either. But sometimes compromises are struck. As I said on the war crimes thread- what if it's like letting Linda Kasabian (the Mansonite who was there at the Tate murder scene and drove the car) go free in exchange for her testimony because she helped put those horrible people away in prison?

Obviously DM could NEVER be forgiven...not unless he donned a hair shirt and made personal and financial reparation to everyone, and he couldn't, anyway, even if he wanted to- which he wouldn't want to. But what about other higher ups who were pretty dreadful? Does or should anyone get a Kasabian type deal? Or am I barkin' up the wrong tree here?
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
:) ^^^that^^

:booze: To Fluff: For courage under fire
Who valiantly returns again and again into the lion's den to be roared and clawed at (and sometimes has bits eaten off and spat out) to defend what she believes is right.

Are you saying that ESMB is a bunch of big kittehs? I shoulda brought my kitteh treats!! (blushing)
 
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