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For the Rathbun "Believers"

This is better. Not looked for spaceships myself. They havn't
looked for me.

Marty is not looking for Freezoners.

Marty is looking for suckers to string alone, I'm sure he doesn't care where they come from, but he's found that blaming everything on Miscavige while sheltering Hubbard has made he an instant hero to freezoners ... to everyone else he's just another con man looking for an angle.
 

Axiom142

Gold Meritorious Patron
Marty Rathbun seems to me to be doing everything he can - from his own position, and in his own way.

No one is making him The King of the Critic Movement.

He's just one guy.

It's all of us who are going to make a difference.

There's a goal we have.

See the goal?

Letting him be, and using what he is producing, is much more important than anything else.

Be pragmatic.

So STFU about Marty in the past and let's get something done now.

We'll sort the rest out later.

Whatever Marty Rathbun has done in the past, he is in a position to bring about a major change in Scientology. I have no doubt that he and Mike Rinder are the people that Miscavige fears the most.

Alanzo’s post is either a very good thing – or a very bad thing. I’m not sure which. :unsure:

I used to disagree with most of the opinions that Alanzo articulated. But there is a convergence of views here.

Now this could either be because I have had a calming influence on him and brought about a more enlightened and thoughtful approach. In other words, he has become more like me! Obviously this would be a good thing.

Or, I have become more like Alanzo. Which would be a bad thing. :ohmy:

But how can I tell which one it is?

Ax
 
It would be interesting to hear Marty's version of the story behind the Int Base prison system which includes OGH and Happy Valley. Will Marty say that it was all based on DM's orders? Was it Marty? Or did he ask YOU for a solution for these "Ethics Particles?"

Oh yeah, I forgot to add Mike Sutter to the list of your henchmen.

Anyway, I forsee Marty's explanation something like:

Marty: "Shelly, what do we do? Dave is acting like a madman and wants me to keep all these guys at OGH and HV, some of them have been out there for years and aren't being handled!"

Shelley: "I don't know Marty, I've been asking myself the same question. This definitely makes me think he's going Type III." (shrug)

Marty: "Oh well, orders is orders." (thought bubble) We have to make sure that none of these guys ever spill the beans about what happens here behind the razor wire or Dave will have our heads...

Don't forget facial expression: wistful.
 
Whatever Marty Rathbun has done in the past, he is in a position to bring about a major change in Scientology. I have no doubt that he and Mike Rinder are the people that Miscavige fears the most.

Alanzo’s post is either a very good thing – or a very bad thing. I’m not sure which. :unsure:

I used to disagree with most of the opinions that Alanzo articulated. But there is a convergence of views here.

Now this could either be because I have had a calming influence on him and brought about a more enlightened and thoughtful approach. In other words, he has become more like me! Obviously this would be a good thing.

Or, I have become more like Alanzo. Which would be a bad thing. :ohmy:

But how can I tell which one it is?

Ax

Marty Rathbun is good position to shakedown Miscavige for money to silence him, that is pretty much all I can see Marty doing. Marty is in it for Marty and no one else, he will sell out at the drop of a hat if the price is right. Quite honestly I can't blame him, I just feel bad for the suckers he is stringing alone with false hopes of him actually doing the right thing.
 
Oh well,
Just posted this on an FZ forum.

-------------
IMO the downfall of COS, and extremely negative view of scientology by the world in general is primarily due to its history of injustice. Just for starters , every disconnection is an extreme violation of justice. Then the executives have a record of frequently, and probably usually interfering with the judicial, who frequently are expected to do their work after midnight, when they are tired and just want to go home. Command intention has traditionally ruled out any attempts at justice.


There are many nice statements in green on white on the subject, but this has not prevented fatal flaws in the scn justice system.



"(11) The only overt in handling justice is not to work for the greatest good of the greatest number. "


This is again IMO a flawed statement, specially when put in the context of other issues.

Disconnections, declares, other weird justice actions may apparently be for the greatest good, but in the longer term alienate the public. Every disconnection, injustice. probably results in dozens of people who will never look at the subject of scientology ever.


I'd say the only overt re justice is to get matters wrong.


From HCOPL 24 feb 1972 INJUSTICE



" The cycle is, goofs are made. The real why is not located or handled, and

when this happens angry executives, who have to pick up the ball start shooting."


That this can happen is a string to pull re the failures of the scn justice system.


From the same PL:-


" Any staff member who does not know ethics policy is a clay pidgeon."


In the " wog" world we get to choose our own lawyer.


" But it sometimes happens that injustices occur......"


" Usually this occurs because because the staff member is pitifully ignorant of his rights."


One might say by joining staff, one then becomes a victim.


"Psychiatry .........uses the "justice" procedures developed in the days of witch burning, unknown accusers, opinions only, punished before being tried, etc."


" Lord forbid we ever fall into such barbarism ourselves."


You become that which you resist?



> "JUSTICE- The only thing which can actually remedy a general insecure
> feeling is a renewed faith in justice.


Here are a couple of webpages discussing these issues which do

a far better job than I of looking at this area.


http://www.freezoneearth.org/HolyCows/cows/06justice.htm


http://www.freezoneearth.org/HolyCows/cows/06justice.htm


bb

-Snip-
"That this can happen is a string to pull re the failures of the scn justice system."

Your post seems to be a penis to pull - or already is being pulled.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Compared to the crimes of Scientology and Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder and David Miscavige, slapping a few subordinates around is cheating at solitaire.

Zinj
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Compared to the crimes of Scientology and Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder and David Miscavige, slapping a few subordinates around is cheating at solitaire.

Zinj

Zinj, I believe using reverse processing (Black scientology) in the way that was done at the Int Base, as Marty described in his St Pete Times video, would be considered by scientologists still in, to be a High Crime of magnitude. I am out for 20 years and was horrified by what he described.
Definitely more serious than cheating at solitaire.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Originally Posted by Thrak
You have a gift.
Yes he does, when DM gets a chance to read his posts like this he'll probably send out a recruit mission for his next speech writer. :D

Facts are sometimes stranger than fiction.

What follows is true: In the mid 1980s I attended a celeb event and sat at the next table to DM and his entourage. After the event I was approached by DM and a couple of his guys who heard that I had written movies. At that time Gold was really searching for outside professional talent to come in on contract. DM DID "send out a recruit mission" and he was on it!

I politely said something non-committal about how "if there is something I can do I would be happy to try to help you..."

DM shot back instantly in his famous defiant shotgun style: "NO! WE CAN HELP YOU!!"

It was the only time I ever spoke to him directly. It was such a curious moment that always stayed with me. How he was compulsively "at cause" even when he was asking for my professional services. It made no sense but probably was a well practiced pattern of introverting people to control them.

I never did figure out how my writing for DM/Gold would result in THEM helping ME...so I never followed thru on his kind offer of help.

Is it me? Or was his response kind of.........wacky? LOL
 
Last edited:
Zinj, I believe using reverse processing (Black scientology) in the way that was done at the Int Base, as Marty described in his St Pete Times video, would be considered by scientologists still in, to be a High Crime of magnitude. I am out for 20 years and was horrified by what he described.
Definitely more serious than cheating at solitaire.

An honest question, would you have believed everything a declared SP said as indisputable fact 20 years ago while you were still in?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Zinj, I believe using reverse processing (Black scientology) in the way that was done at the Int Base, as Marty described in his St Pete Times video, would be considered by scientologists still in, to be a High Crime of magnitude. I am out for 20 years and was horrified by what he described.
Definitely more serious than cheating at solitaire.

According to L. Ron Hubbard, I am a criminal; felonies or better, and, that's in *wog* terms :)

I really don't give a flying fuck about 'Scientology Crimes'. As far as I'm concerned any of these bozos can invalidate, squirrel, tech degrade or miss whithholds all they want.

What I care about is wog crimes like murder, extortion, fraud, subversion, deliberate 'ruining utterly' as prescribed by Ron or such things. I'm especially worried about the kinds of corruption of the 'wog' legal system and government as Marty would be well familiar with.

No; I don't care about Scientology Crimes.

Zinj
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Whatever Marty Rathbun has done in the past, he is in a position to bring about a major change in Scientology. I have no doubt that he and Mike Rinder are the people that Miscavige fears the most.

and how do you know this? That they were his cowed little henchmen? That they played bitch to his butch for so many years? That both of them have run around confessing and grovelling at every turn?

Miscavige knows far more about them than they know about him - they told him all about it.
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Mick,

is the word ‘redemption’ in your lexicon?

Axiom142

redemption? No, not really. I am neither a scientologist or a christian. I dont give a rat's ass about it.

I particularly dont think skunks achieve redemption from being skunks. it is what they are.

I dont think cowards and grovellers suddenly grow a pair merely because they got kicked out and now praise themselves.

You can join in with him if you wish - good luck. Maybe he will achieve redemption by doing to you and your ilk what he already did to so many scientologists.
 

Tim Skog

Silver Meritorious Patron
Facts are sometimes stranger than fiction.

What follows is true: In the mid 1980s I attended a celeb event and sat at the next table to DM and his entourage. After the event I was approached by DM and a couple of his guys who heard that I had written movies. At that time Gold was really searching for outside professional talent to come in on contract. I politely said something non-committal about how "if there is something I can do I would be happy to try to help you..."

DM shot back instantly in his famous defiant shotgun style: "NO! WE CAN HELP YOU!!"

It was the only time I ever spoke to him directly. It was such a curious moment that always stayed with me. How he was compulsively "at cause" even when he was asking for my professional services. It made no sense but probably was a well practiced pattern of introverting people to control them.

I never did figure out how my writing for DM/Gold would result in THEM helping ME...so I never followed thru on his kind offer of help.

Is it me? Or was his response kind of.........wacky? LOL

"Wacky" is an understatement. I'm glad that you never followed through. :thumbsup:
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Is it me? Or was his response kind of.........wacky? LOL

It's you. :omg:



(just kidding) :D



Fortunately I've never had the pleasure to meet DM but his response to you seems typical from many stories about him I've read. It almost seems that with that type of response from him that he's got this attitude "I'm such a huge OT being - how could you possibly believe that your meagre offer of what you call "help" would really have much effect.?" or something like that. His response seems to be a recipe composed of equal parts introvert, invalidation, and just being an all-around general a-hole.
 
It's you. :omg:



(just kidding) :D



Fortunately I've never had the pleasure to meet DM but his response to you seems typical from many stories about him I've read. It almost seems that with that type of response from him that he's got this attitude "I'm such a huge OT being - how could you possibly believe that your meagre offer of what you call "help" would really have much effect.?" or something like that. His response seems to be a recipe composed of equal parts introvert, invalidation, and just being an all-around general a-hole.

You could have left everything out except "all-around general a-hole" and it would have pretty much covered it.
 
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