justaguy's (silly) questions thread

[pollywannacracker]

Justaguy,

No public nor staff that I knew every got into Scientology due to the celebrities that were recruited.

I'm one of those that wants to know what makes people tick so I asked those that I was close to outright. Not a one ever said taht they had their interest peaked because a celebrity was on-lines.

Most of them were considered old-time Scn's so I don't know about those who haven't been "in" for very long.

Good question. Makes me want to know how good the recruitment practices are using Scn celebrities!

 

[FinallyFree]

This question is not very silly.

How much of scientology's sucesses, do you think, have been due to their aggressive courting of celebrities? Do you now anyone who (directly,indirectly) came to scientology because of a celebrity? I.e. anyone who went "oh, tom cruise is into scientology? what's that? i'll go check it out" and then got hooked.

so that's really two questions.

Anyways, I'm really curious about this one.

I think that the aggressive courting of celebs serves to legitimize scientology which I think has been a key factor a majority of their actions. Legitimization. Making it normal and acceptable. Heavily recruiting top named celebs would play a key factor in this.

I personally do not know of anyone who got into scientology due to a celeb. When I was in and on staff I was asked several times over the years if I knew TC or John T or any others. I personally don’t swoon over celebs of any kind (okay I FREAKED OUT when Frankie R. (old Angels closer) *spoke* to me and SIGNED MY BASEBALL HAT!!!!) WHOO HOO!

So whenever I was asked this it was only slightly irritating.

 

[justaguy]

I expect the answer will be no or "how am i supposed to know?", but I'll go ahead and ask:

Is there anyone you met who you think saw scientology as more legitimate because of some celeb or another, in the way you suggest? it's hard to ask the question, but hopefully you get what I mean.

 

[pollywannacracker]

You were correct in you assumption of the response - at least on my end.

The answer would be no, no one I ever knew that was in thought that Scientology was made out to be more legitimate when celebrities were involved.

But then hey! Celebrities these days are not quite the "opinion leaders" as celebrities of yore.

 

[FinallyFree]

Well TC always came off to me as cold and prick-ish. So even when in, but yeah you even even though I didn't like the guy he added some 'normalsy' to it for me. JT you know. But I always wondered about people like Jenna Elfman who seems like a major pot head to me, or how the more Kirsty Alley does scn the fatter she seems to get, so that lost luster for me.

When I saw it out in the 'real world' that also added some 'normalsy' for me. For instance, working for Atkinson-Baker court reporters and they have a fully set up course room and use certain portions of the admin tech. But even there I saw shit was "shouldn't be" you know in a 'scientology run business'.

The craziest people I have ever worked for were in scientology. An OT, Perm Class VI Ex S.O., trained Supe and c/s lady threatened to throw me out of a glass window. Why? I didn't agree with her on something completely unrelated to work. And I have seen some crazy ass shit. I tell you, with eveyone I know - and I have known some crazy ass people - scientologists are some of the craziest.

 

[FinallyFree]

Well TC always came off to me as cold and prick-ish. So even when in, but yeah you even even though I didn't like the guy he added some 'normalsy' to it for me. JT you know. But I always wondered about people like Jenna Elfman who seems like a major pot head to me, or how the more Kirsty Alley does scn the fatter she seems to get, so that lost luster for me.

When I saw it out in the 'real world' that also added some 'normalsy' for me. For instance, working for Atkinson-Baker court reporters and they have a fully set up course room and use certain portions of the admin tech. But even there I saw shit was "shouldn't be" you know in a 'scientology run business'.

The craziest people I have ever worked for were in scientology. An OT, Perm Class VI Ex S.O., trained Supe and c/s lady threatened to throw me out of a glass window. Why? I didn't agree with her on something completely unrelated to work. And I have seen some crazy ass shit. I tell you, with eveyone I know - and I have known some crazy ass people - scientologists are some of the craziest.

You know like I said before I think the important thing to keep in mind here is that scientology works very hard to appear "normal", to try not to set off any alarms, raise any red flags.

To appear normal is a key strategic positioning for them.

 

[justaguy]

I thought I had posted earlier, but I find that very fascinating. Scientology seems so un-normal to me that any attempt for them to seem normal would would seem to me awkward for the person attempting it. It almost seems to me an article of faith in scientology that what most people would consider "normal" is, in fact, undesirable.

Am I right here? Or just vague?

 

[Panda Termint]

I expect the answer will be no or "how am i supposed to know?", but I'll go ahead and ask:

Is there anyone you met who you think saw scientology as more legitimate because of some celeb or another, in the way you suggest? it's hard to ask the question, but hopefully you get what I mean.

Justa, I know a guy who joined in the 70s because of Chick Corea's involvement. He'd read Chick's praise of LRH on an album cover.

Then again, Chick was always more an Artiste/Musical Genius than a "Celebrity".

My friend (who is also a Musical Genius) is OUT now, hopefully Chick will follow soon.

The real question should be, "Do you know anyone who joined scientology despite knowing of the involvement of certain "Celebrities"?

 

[pollywannacracker]

The more "normal" they try to be, the more it backfires and the more contrived they truly appear. It is creepy.

 

[FinallyFree]

I thought I had posted earlier, but I find that very fascinating. Scientology seems so un-normal to me that any attempt for them to seem normal would would seem to me awkward for the person attempting it. It almost seems to me an article of faith in scientology that what most people would consider "normal" is, in fact, undesirable.

Am I right here? Or just vague?

Your question is very clear to me. My BF has asked me this so many times. Maybe I am not the best person to ask. I am second generation, though I personally didn't start learning about scn until I was 15. SO I wasn't "doing" scn until I was 16 or so.

Yeah, my Mom was on staff. I remember playing in the Academy with the clay and demo kits. I remember drawing pictures for hubbard because I was so young that I didn't know yet how to write, folding them and shooving them in that pretty box the org had set up for letters to hubbard. But I didn't start my own personal involvement until I was 15 or 16.

By then I was surrounded with family who happily and excitedly started telling me all about scn. scientologists have this false sense of being more enlightened, "knowing where others do not" sense of being sort of on a higher plane that those who are not in scientology. It is a very elitest view point and it is rampant amongst scienologists who firmly believe in their precious cult and have been carefully gleaned to rebute anything said against their precious scientology - no matter the evidence. So, it is my personal opinion that all scientologists live in a bubble.

Anyone familiar with being in scientology or around scientologists will know exactly what I am talking about here. Another thing you learn in becoming a scientologist is that there are truly evil people out there who you cannot trust - they mean you the ultimate harm. You also learn that anyone who is against scientology could very likely *be* one of these utmost evil of all evil people. The dreadful Supressive Persons.

So you get in this "religion" which is very complicated, very dogmatic, has a LOT of stuff to read, SO much to find out. That by the time you get your answer to "so what is this scientology anyways?" you are part of the trap. If you don't see scientoloy for what it is and rather choose to see it for what you are told it is - then you get lost getting your questions answered. You get brainwashed getting your questions answered. This is not an accident.

Now, try asking that question as a second generation scientologist surrounded by family members who are scientologist and have been for years and years, not just as public but as staff members.

So did scientology ever come off as weird to me? Did it not raise red flags for me as I was learning about it. Yes - but my vision and my mind were blurred as I was getting my answer.

 

[FinallyFree]

Okay Just - where's my next question?! :confused2:

 

[JackStraw]

You want a new question? I got two:

1: Just how does a "Temperature" or "fever" assist work??!!??

I've had them and given them and the seemed to work. But, I just don't get HOW.

I mean, even with a real-life scientific instrument (thermometer) you take a pc's temp, verify there really is a fever, then run, I forget exactly, "Keep it from going away" or "Hold it still", whatever, and at the end of the process, take the temp again, an viola! the fever is broken! I've had it run on me and I've run it on others and I've seen it work (temperature down). But- HOW?

2: Why, when you are not allowed to run a Touch Assist on someone with a headache, it's somehow o.k. to run a nerve assist on the same person?

I mean, with this one (touch assist) Ron explains, in one edition of POW, that the touch assist doesn't address the charge that caused the headache (out-int). Just how does a nerve assist do anything different?

Inquiring minds (mine, away) want to know!

Jack

 

[Dark Phoenix]

Apologies if this question has been asked already.

Why do people actually pay their free loader debt? I don't see the reason why they have to pay it in the first place, or what consequences, if any, would result from not paying.

Can someone explain?

Thanks in advance

 

[He-man]

Apologies if this question has been asked already.

Why do people actually pay their free loader debt? I don't see the reason why they have to pay it in the first place, or what consequences, if any, would result from not paying.

Can someone explain?

Thanks in advance

The only point I can see for someone to pay it is if that person wants to get in again...
The consequence is: If you have a freeloader bill, you´r not allowed to do any levels or any courses, paying the debt comes first.

 

[Dark Phoenix]

The only point I can see for someone to pay it is if that person wants to get in again...
The consequence is: If you have a freeloader bill, you´r not allowed to do any levels or any courses, paying the debt comes first.

Thanks for the reply He-man.

So only people who have completely wiped their hands of Scientology are in a position not to pay it. And there are no consequences for them.

But one more thing regarding how the depth was accumulated in the first place. Am I correct in saying that the staff contract entitles staff members to free services and then Scn reneg on the staff contract for those who decide to leave?

 

[He-man]

Thanks for the reply He-man.

So only people who have completely wiped their hands of Scientology are in a position not to pay it. And there are no consequences for them.

But one more thing regarding how the depth was accumulated in the first place. Am I correct in saying that the staff contract entitles staff members to free services and then Scn reneg on the staff contract for those who decide to leave?

When you enter staff you sign a contract for 2 or five years, the sea org sign for a gazillion years, or was it a million... cant remember.
If you decide to leave prematurely, blow or route off, you´r breaking the contract. As such your expected to pay for what the org has "payed" for.

A freloaderbill is drafted where anything you´ve done, hatting, courses and auditing, is put up. You are then made to sign it. Voila!

 

[justaguy]

Okay Just - where's my next question?! :confused2:

Sorry! It seems that some others have stepped up and filled the void, though

I actually have a question. I recently had a cold, so I did the sensible thing and stayed home. But scientology has this SP/PTS theory of sickness, and maybe would not advise you to stay home if you're on staff.

Was it in your experience likely for a cold/flu/whatever to sweep the staff because no one could go home and sleep it off? Would the whole PTS/SP business add even more stress to the situation?

 

[Dark Phoenix]

When you enter staff you sign a contract for 2 or five years, the sea org sign for a gazillion years, or was it a million... cant remember.
If you decide to leave prematurely, blow or route off, you´r breaking the contract. As such your expected to pay for what the org has "payed" for.

A freloaderbill is drafted where anything you´ve done, hatting, courses and auditing, is put up. You are then made to sign it. Voila!

Such shameless greed. Staff having already been exploited to the fullest, and I’m thinking of the SO in particular, with the long working hours on a continuous basis, for little to no pay, doing every type of job imaginable, and without complaint, despite horrid living conditions, no proper nutrition or health care and little to no time off away from such a grueling routine, Scientology still finds a way to squeeze out another few drops. I’m sure this freloaderbill is more of a control tactic, but this one has a safety net where they also stand to make a bit of cash.

 

[He-man]

Sorry! It seems that some others have stepped up and filled the void, though

I actually have a question. I recently had a cold, so I did the sensible thing and stayed home. But scientology has this SP/PTS theory of sickness, and maybe would not advise you to stay home if you're on staff.

Was it in your experience likely for a cold/flu/whatever to sweep the staff because no one could go home and sleep it off? Would the whole PTS/SP business add even more stress to the situation?

Cold indicates loss, suck it up and get to work you dramatizing son of a shedog!
Yes, you get sick, "you pulled it in" and are pts, meaning you are on the lines with an SP, get ethics handling as soon as possible. That would add some stress to it.
This mostly ends up with you going to work no matter how sick you are to prove that you are "at cause and handling it".

Such shameless greed. Staff having already been exploited to the fullest, and I’m thinking of the SO in particular, with the long working hours on a continuous basis, for little to no pay, doing every type of job imaginable, and without complaint, despite horrid living conditions, no proper nutrition or health care and little to no time off away from such a grueling routine, Scientology still finds a way to squeeze out another few drops. I’m sure this freloaderbill is more of a control tactic, but this one has a safety net where they also stand to make a bit of cash.

Oh, don´t worry, sea orgies are a hard bunch of people, they can take it and get up again... At least that was what I was told by my superior officer.

It amazes me that the more I post the more comes back, I spent almost a decade trying to forget, but now I want to remember.

 

[FinallyFree]

Sorry! It seems that some others have stepped up and filled the void, though

I actually have a question. I recently had a cold, so I did the sensible thing and stayed home. But scientology has this SP/PTS theory of sickness, and maybe would not advise you to stay home if you're on staff.

Was it in your experience likely for a cold/flu/whatever to sweep the staff because no one could go home and sleep it off? Would the whole PTS/SP business add even more stress to the situation?

The main thing that I remember from being sick while a scienologist is that you are looked at with resentment and suspicion. It is your fault you are sick, there is NO sympathy, no empathy – you got yourself that way, its Dev-T –WE HAVE A PLANET TO SAVE HERE!

You are not cared for and everyone is too busy to worry about you.

I one had double pneumonia. – That’s when both your lungs are filled up with fluid. I got no auditing, no assists NO HELP at all from the org. I went back to work early, relapsed within 48 hours and was back in bed rest for another month.

When I had my wisdom teeth taken out and spent a week basically unconscious from the pain meds (they were pretty bad the surgeon had to break open my jaw bone to get to two of them) – they sent the ethics officer to check on me. They thought I was lying. They didn’t send an auditor. I got no assists. NOTHING.

The whole slave labor treatment doesn’t stop. Even when you have a serious medical condition. I only ever got ONE PTS handling when I was on staff and got sick and that was because I was being audited by an S.O. member who had to get through his TIP and needed me to recover.

Wow. I just remembered the time that a person who was HIV positive was allowed to start the Purif. Can you imagine that? Someone who is HIV positive down in the sauna sweating their brains out. Drinking, eating, sweating on everything? Showering, etc?

It’s a strange strange world in scientology.