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What is a right and wrong? Story and Question.

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Cherished

Silver Meritorious Patron
I have to admit, the *fact* that Mike Laws is still in 'good standing' with the 'Church', attends events and claims that he's even a VIP whom Miscavige can't touch because of his money and connections is something Mike Laws revealed himself years ago, when he was posting to ESK. Does that mean he's OSA? Well, yes, I suppose it does :) Unless you subscribe to the fantasy that he could be the major financer of Marty Rathbun's Road Show and Traveling Circus without 'Church' approval while still being 'in good standing'. :)
Spot the illogicality.

It's a pretty big blind spot that let's one that big get through.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Well, all this is getting impossible to figure out.. I don't know who BIA is.. And guess what, that's good enough for me.

I still need to see a post from Mike Laws that would indicate, to me, that he's OSA! - Allright.. Zinj mentioned that he's still in good standing with the cult, goes to events and such.. But that was a couple of years ago and before he started posting here... So maybe he's not in 'good standing' anymore?

Zinj also noted that it really doesn't matter if someone is OSA. I agree, we can read and respond to the posts on their merit just the same. And we usually do..

Haarmph! - Maybe we need to post pics of babes with awesome boobs in response to all this?

:duh:
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Spot the illogicality.

It's a pretty big blind spot that let's one that big get through.

Indeed. What is also illogical to me is this....IF one was OSA why would one say one is still in good standing - no matter how long ago? Why would one say anything to cause suspicion like that?
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
Spot the illogicality.

It's a pretty big blind spot that let's one that big get through.

There is as much, if in fact not more, illogic surrounding the neverwas [$cio] zinjifar than Mike L. For a neverwas he seems mightily addicted to it as a life-defining subject for who he is. Perhaps I'm the only one who has ever thought his years-long neverwas relationship to the subject quite odd. Whatever. Don't know him and wouldn't really care to, particularly after this weird request to use Emma as his posting proxy. Xenu only knows why she felt obligated to do it for those 2 postings of his, but not my bizzness anyways; which goes for the rest of the episodic soap melodrama occurring.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
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There is as much, if in fact not more, illogic surrounding the neverwas [$cio] zinjifar than Mike L. For a neverwas he seems mightily addicted to it as a life-defining subject for who he is. Perhaps I'm the only one who has ever thought his years-long neverwas relationship to the subject quite odd. Whatever. Don't know him and wouldn't really care to, particularly after this weird request to use Emma as his posting proxy. Xenu only knows why she felt obligated to do it for those 2 postings of his, but not my bizzness anyways; which goes for the rest of the episodic soap melodrama occurring.

The truth is I didn't want to because I can't see any good coming out of it, but because they were referred to earlier and NOT posted (mainly because nobody had permission) and because Zinj basically demanded I do it, I decided to do it.

I think he feels it will clear up the "lies" he believes have been told about what he said or didn't say.
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
The truth is I didn't want to because I can't see any good coming out of it, but because they were referred to earlier and NOT posted (mainly because nobody had permission) and because Zinj basically demanded I do it, I decided to do it.

I think he feels it will clear up the "lies" he feels have been told about what he said or didn't say.

Thank you, Emma. Another demonstration of his amazing prowess in logic, considering he had done absolutely nil to warrant the persona non grata position he has found himself in where he can't "defend" himself from current members' "attacks".[/sarcasm] At least Carmel has been smart enough to retain her posting privileges. LOL
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Indeed. What is also illogical to me is this....IF one was OSA why would one say one is still in good standing - no matter how long ago? Why would one say anything to cause suspicion like that?

Now that I've got my mum's basement lined with tin foil, I can think of a couple of reasons. I guess it comes down to when Laws was last in good standing. Was it a "couple of years ago" or was it a couple of months ago. The latter seems unlikely, but I can't get a decent time frame out of his comments thus far. Do you know his nick on ESK?
 

Emma

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Now that I've got my mum's basement lined with tin foil, I can think of a couple of reasons. I guess it comes down to when Laws was last in good standing. Was it a "couple of years ago" or was it a couple of months ago. The latter seems unlikely, but I can't get a decent time frame out of his comments thus far. Do you know his nick on ESK?

No not off the top of my head. He has said what it is in earlier posts though.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
. . . considering he had done absolutely nil to warrant the persona non grata position he has found himself in where he can't "defend" himself from current members' "attacks" . . .

That is a good point. Check out his comments in between bans, I can't see anything Zinj said which merited a permaban. I'm not saying Emma can't ban who she likes, when she likes, and if she likes, I just can't see any breach of the rules as posted.

Oh . . . its all so confusing. I'm off for a beer.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Here you go ...

Posted by Mike Laws

snipped

ESMB is only the second board I have ever posted on. That I am not very good at board posting, or at least highly inexperienced should be obvious.

I first posted anonymously on exscientologykids.com, this was primarily for my own healing. My avatar there was Outlander. I ran away from that with my tail between my legs after encountering the wrath of Mick, didn't go back because a couple of months later the COS had figured out who it was and started circling the wagons around me with the Arrows and rifles pointed inwards.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Well, Zinj is obviously pissed off and in my view he's assigning quite a lot more 'conspiracy' to this than is reasonable.. And mixing stuff that is really not related...

This pillowfight we have started with Emma 'requesting' that we be nicer to newbies.. I really can't object to that.. But that escalated and, quite illogically, it was suddenly about freedom of speech..

This part of it is unrelated to all the OSA anciety..

:unsure:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Well, Zinj is obviously pissed off and in my view he's assigning quite a lot more 'conspiracy' to this than is reasonable.. And mixing stuff that is really not related...

This pillowfight we have started with Emma 'requesting' that we be nicer to newbies.. I really can't object to that.. But that escalated and, quite illogically, it was suddenly about freedom of speech..

This part of it is unrelated to all the OSA anciety..

:unsure:

I agree. I had to walk away and think about Zinj's post for a while, because it just doesn't make sense to me.

As he says, having OSA around is no big deal. There have been little OSA witchhunts here from time to time...no biggie. The largest ones were about Alex and Bjorkist - the latter accusing Veda of being OSA at every opportunity for example.

But so what? Why is this thing about "Mike Laws being OSA" of such vital importance that it such a sustained subject of discussion??

What I see is this accusation that ESMB is in fact not being run by Emma, but a bunch of backchannel peoples. And these people are apparently so stupid or gullible that they are being run by Marty. Or something.

Anyone who has met Emma in person will just snort at that! :D

I had a lot of respect for Zinj until this....this saddens me greatly.
Something smells really off here.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
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March 20th 2008 Mike Writes this on ESK:

http://exscientologykids.com/eskforums/viewtopic.php?p=4478&highlight=#4478

Age - 41

Occupation - Business owner.

Marital Status - Multiple divorces, thinking about becoming a lesbian.

$cn Experience - Born and raised in it, 12 years in the SO from age 14. several years of which I worked with OSA on "special projects" (read “handling bad guys" ... sorry, got sucked into a higher level of the same psychosis the fabulous Tory has been so effective in exposing, though I have not been as good at turning the tables!!). Also was an "accomplished" and "respected" reg, and ethics officer.

Current Connections - In from the Church perspective, and an ally, out from mine and my closest confidants. Trying to undo some of the damage I did by re-educating some of the people I got in before I officially disclose my intentions to leave. Still attend most major events, am considered a "VIP", laughably. Just look for the guy in the audience that doesn't applaud all the time. It has taken me nearly 5 years to come to grips with the reality that the group I fought to help "save" and forward; that my parents spent most of their lives and money in, that my father thought was more important than spending time with me and my siblings, thinking that saving the world for us with scientology was more important than being a good dad, that I raised my children in, that I sacrificed my time with my children to "help", that I considered more important than spending my time with my children, is a fraud.

Current Religion - Unknown, and with a pretty strong distaste for organized religion. Have studied Buddhism, NLP, hypnosis, Tony Robins, and a bunch more. Am spiritual, but not religious at this point. Hedonism is sounding pretty good, actually.

Well that seals it for me. He's definitely OSA. :eyeroll:
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
paradox said:
. . . considering he had done absolutely nil to warrant the persona non grata position he has found himself in where he can't "defend" himself from current members' "attacks" . . .

That is a good point. Check out his comments in between bans, I can't see anything Zinj said which merited a permaban. I'm not saying Emma can't ban who she likes, when she likes, and if she likes, I just can't see any breach of the rules as posted.

Oh . . . its all so confusing. I'm off for a beer.

Hey! I seen what you did. <wrygrin>

I don't know what he specifically did to warrant the permaban either but neither did I miss the ... tone ... of his last few posts that were scattered here-and-there. But I learned a while ago that it is very much okay to Not Know. And Not Care, for that matter. Like you have said, Emma can damn well do what she pleases with this friggin' board, zinjies saccharin opinion or anyone else's as to who the REAL ESMB is, or is not, notwithstanding. :yes:
 
G

Gottabrain

Guest
Don't see Laws could be BIA though. Their writing styles are too different.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
Ems,
I see Mike Laws listed as a "WISE Non-Member" here:
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/list-of-wise-non-members.65586/

That could have have something to do with Zinj's skepticism, as it would indicate the C of S considers him a Scn even though he is not a WISE member.

But did you see the scathing criticism these "non-members" get:

Non-Member Assignments

All WISE members subscribe to the high ethical standards of the Code of a WISE Member and agree to the stipulations as laid out in the WISE membership agreement or WISE license.

Individuals with other agendas and counter or other-intentions, or who choose not to subscribe to the Code of a WISE Member or the WISE membership agreement, are labeled Non-Members of WISE. These are being published in the magazine so true team members are aware of them. If they decide at a later time to handle any out-ethics situation they were involved in and become a part of the group again, they may be reinstated as members, and these will be listed as well.
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Ems,
I see Mike Laws listed as a "WISE Non-Member" here:
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/threads/list-of-wise-non-members.65586/

That could have have something to do with Zinj's skepticism, as it would indicate the C of S considers him a Scn even though he is not a WISE member.

My stupid scientology page is still up last time I looked, apparently I must still be in too, according to them. (I have requested it be taken down and it hasn't, and apparently I have been declared and I haven't seen that either. ) :D
 
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