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Tanstaafl

Crusader
Alex is a cowardly wretch. Hiding behind a false name. Shows he or she is afraid, hence quite low on the bridge or low on theta. I think both. A typical product of DM's.

Just for the record, is anyone else here "hiding behind a false name" (myself included) a "cowardly wretch"? :)
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Any of us who know what activity the CofS is capable of should be able to see that what Alex does on here could easily be consistant with such activity.

Either Alex is not a real scientologist who is pretending to be aboard on the same terms as the rest of them, like Alex claims is the case. In other words Alex is a namby pamby panty-waist dilletante SP Squirrel who is being false with them while taking services.

Or Alex is on here carrying out a Scn black op pretending to us to be what is impossible, which is an open-minded, fair scientologist who is critical of the CofS management and LRH.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Sometimes, especially when dealing with the 'Church' things *are* kind of 'black and white' :)

I suspect it's the nature of the beast.

Zinj
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
Any of us who know what activity the CofS is capable of should be able to see that what Alex does on here could easily be consistant with such activity.

Which proves nothing in itself.

Either Alex is not a real scientologist who is pretending to be aboard on the same terms as the rest of them, like Alex claims is the case. In other words Alex is a namby pamby panty-waist dilletante SP Squirrel who is being false with them while taking services.

It sounds, LH, like you're trying to bait Alex. Are you? If so, why?

Or Alex is on here carrying out a Scn black op pretending to us to be what is impossible, which is an open-minded, fair scientologist who is critical of the CofS management and LRH.

Is it so unlikely that Alex wants to get training in CoS while holding his views on DM?

Granted, I was very slow on the uptake with Eamonn Gosney. :duh: :)

I don't know the details of the ARS matters Zinj mentioned. I decided when I joined ESMB that I'd treat people as I found them and not be prejudiced by reputations, e.g. Dennis.

What is it specifically that Alex has posted that is pissing people off?
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Sometimes, especially when dealing with the 'Church' things *are* kind of 'black and white' :)

I suspect it's the nature of the beast.

Zinj

Yes, that's how Ron set it up because of his own black & white personality.

Alex is saying that he or she is grey (sorry gray! :wink2: ). Alex claims to be critical of but faithful to the CofS! :confused2: Ron never permitted such open-mindedness, unless you were a GO operative. :coolwink:
 

Free to shine

Shiny & Free
Yes, that's how Ron set it up because of his own black & white personality.

Alex is saying that he or she is grey (sorry gray! :wink2: ). Alex claims to be critical of but faithful to the CofS! :confused2: Ron never permitted such open-mindedness, unless you were a GO operative. :coolwink:

:thumbsup: :yes:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Which proves nothing in itself.

As Alex is aware, the internet, of which ESMB is a part, is not a court of law. There are no 'rules of evidence' or 'rights of the accused'; only opinions. Which makes Alex apparent conviction of Keith Henson for heinous crimes dubious.

It sounds, LH, like you're trying to bait Alex. Are you? If so, why?

It's for his own good? Or, maybe it's just to offer Alex an opportunity to get off his 'withholds' :)

Is it so unlikely that Alex wants to get training in CoS while holding his views on DM?

Not that. What's so unlikely is that Alex would be *allowed* to get training while at the same time expressing his 'views' publicly and with 'Church' awareness.

Granted, I was very slow on the uptake with Eamonn Gosney. :duh: :)

Alex said he was cool :) Surely that counts for something...

I don't know the details of the ARS matters Zinj mentioned. I decided when I joined ESMB that I'd treat people as I found them and not be prejudiced by reputations, e.g. Dennis.

What is it specifically that Alex has posted that is pissing people off?

It's not about pissing people off. It's about false flags and taking advantage of what can be naivete or even deliberate naivete, as you express. I'm certainly not suggesting that Alex be prevented from posting whatever he wants to, but, I reserve the right to see it as deliberate subtrefuge.

Zinj
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Please count me in as an "open-minded, fair scientologist who is critical of the CofS management and (some aspects of) LRH".
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
Fair enough Zinj. Thanks for getting back on that.

The only point I would make is that I can't see an F/Ning student having a problem staying on course, whatever his/her current beliefs. How would such be discovered?
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
Alex has to be lying, that's what.

There is only one kind of Scientologist "in good standing with the Church" who OSA permits to post in any kind of critical forum, and that is someone working for them.

Every faithful churchie who posts without OSA permission *will* be found out, and will either be forced to stop or start posting for them. Failure to do so will result in being declared PTS and routed off all services and continued defiance will result in an SP declare with resultant consequences to friends and family.

Therefore, "Alex" is lying.

Either he/she/it/them is an OSA posting identity or he/she/it is a troll pretending to be a churchie.

The Sneakster


Okay TS, that seems to be the datum I have missed - the okay from OSA.
My apologies if this has created a little dev-t for anyone.

Please bear in mind that my memory is barely any better than Guy Pearce in Memento (and yes, we all know what that means). :duh:

I agree that such a scenario seems highly implausible.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Fair enough Zinj. Thanks for getting back on that.

The only point I would make is that I can't see an F/Ning student having a problem staying on course, whatever his/her current beliefs. How would such be discovered?

He could express his beliefs on ESMB or ARS or to his wife or children (who would write a KR) or he might just be a dubious character; like alanzo

Zinj
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Which proves nothing in itself.

It sounds, LH, like you're trying to bait Alex. Are you? If so, why?

Is it so unlikely that Alex wants to get training in CoS while holding his views on DM?

Granted, I was very slow on the uptake with Eamonn Gosney. :duh: :)

I don't know the details of the ARS matters Zinj mentioned. I decided when I joined ESMB that I'd treat people as I found them and not be prejudiced by reputations, e.g. Dennis.

What is it specifically that Alex has posted that is pissing people off?

For myself, Alex can do whatever he (is it a he?) wants to do as regards Scn services. But as far as Scn is concerned I have no desire for any more people to suffer from Scn abuse and betrayal of their spiritual natures.

Therefore whenever Scns start painting an untrue picture of Scn my cult-dar starts bleeping. I get a "we want to sucker more people into our cult" warning bleeping away.

Alex says he is taking services, but does not support CofS abuse! Huh?:confused2:

Alex says you can be a Scientologist in good standing but hide from them that you are posting on critical message boards. Huh? :confused2: Oh no you can't!

So then Alex said that it was a correspondence course he was doing and had no present attendence at a Church. Huh? :confused2:

Is Alex a Scientologist? Alex is one of those people who tries to paint a cosy picture of earlier Scn and how the current management have corrupted LRH's creation. Alex is either mistaken or is lying.

So I try to speak the truth. If it stops one person from being suckered in by Alex's false information, then I have achieved what I have set out to achieve.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Supposedly Alex is not only posting to ARS and ESMB, but, the 'Church' is *aware* of it, and allowing him to continue without 'ethics actions'.

It's quite possible that someone might post anonymously without being caught, although, the 'Church' goes to extreme measures to 'discover' such stuff...

Zinj
 

Tanstaafl

Crusader
For myself, Alex can do whatever he (is it a he?) wants to do as regards Scn services. But as far as Scn is concerned I have no desire for any more people to suffer from Scn abuse and betrayal of their spiritual natures.

Therefore whenever Scns start painting an untrue picture of Scn my cult-dar starts bleeping. I get a "we want to sucker more people into our cult" warning bleeping away.

Alex says he is taking services, but does not support CofS abuse! Huh?:confused2:

Alex says you can be a Scientologist in good standing but hide from them that you are posting on critical message boards. Huh? :confused2: Oh no you can't!

So then Alex said that it was a correspondence course he was doing and had no present attendence at a Church. Huh? :confused2:

Is Alex a Scientologist? Alex is one of those people who tries to paint a cosy picture of earlier Scn and how the current management have corrupted LRH's creation. Alex is either mistaken or is lying.

So I try to speak the truth. If it stops one person from being suckered in by Alex's false information, then I have achieved what I have set out to achieve.

I wasn't having a pop at you LH - you're local! :)

Thanks for expanding on your point.

I don't tend to register too much on personal details (especially if I haven't exchanged posts with a person); I tend to focus on ideas and humour (though some might argue). I see where you're coming from now.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Please count me in as an "open-minded, fair scientologist who is critical of the CofS management and (some aspects of) LRH".

Fine. Wonderful! :thumbsup: So you are NOT a Scientologist per LRH's definition in KSW.

You are PTS or SP, according to Ron.

You are a dilletant and theety weety according to LRH. Congratulations!
 

ExScnDude

Patron with Honors
Come on now. We've all seen people like Alex in the course room.

If he is not an operative, then he is currently not in the situation where his withholds are being pulled - or he has a crappy auditor who's missing these withholds continuously.

If it were known by Dept. 3 or OSA that he has been communicating to declared SPs, there would be an ongoing ethics cycle concerning that - unless of course he is doing services in some backwater understaffed org or mission, doing some Div 6 course - more or less under the radar.

Yet Alex has stated on another thread that he more or less agrees with everything in KSW. Hmmmmmmm...... - makes me think that Alex is only peripherally involved and not doing major services at an org.

Alex, if you're not here on the orders of OSA, then get ready for a massive ethics cycle.

You'll never get on the OT Levels at the Co$ until it's "handled".
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
Fair enough Zinj. Thanks for getting back on that.

The only point I would make is that I can't see an F/Ning student having a problem staying on course, whatever his/her current beliefs. How would such be discovered?

Well, recently Alex said it was a corespondence course he or she was doing. In which case this person is not really on-lines.

If that is false and Alex is actually on-lines, then you cannot be an F/Ning student and have different beliefs from the CofS beliefs. Ron set it up so that that is impossible. Due to partial belief in some of Ron's Scn dogma, you will feel guilty about posting on ESMB. Ron implanted that into his auditing and study technology.

When I was a course super I could easily detect these things. The very dogma that is being studied will flag up the wandering doubt.

When I was an auditor and C/S I could easily detect such witholds. The very style of the session and auditing techniques used would flag up SP/PTSness, and witholds.

Ron set up the tech this way in the 60's. You cannot be an F/Ning Scientologist in the CofS and harbour lingering doubts. KSW put an end to that. The only way to F/N in the CofS is to be a true believer. Otherwise you end up on the RPF or in the SP Hall or sec-checked or off-loaded.

PS - we are cool Tans. I don't mind clarifying and expanding my ideas. :)
 
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