Re: PandaTermint's question on the rights of scientologists to practice their religio
That above is actually very good, Gadfly, though a little incomplete.
There is no doubt about the fact that in any civil society, folks do have the right to believe whatever silly shit they choose to believe in, and that right to believe as they do individually must be honored and protected.
Similarly the right to not believe in such silly shit must be honored and protected, and certainly it must be protected from physical threat and/or coercion from "believers."
So, to your little missive above, since you ask,
I would add the following:
so long as they do not interfere with the freedoms of association and of movement--the freedom to come and go as one chooses--- and as long as they do not violate the wishes and wants and freedom of choice of any individual; then they are free to believe as they wish and free to practice their beliefs without harm or violation of others.
In other words, take down the bloody barbed wire and let those who wish to walk out of the slave camp go! And yes . . . free Heber!
Rog
Thank-you Rog! A very good addition indeed.
I just might add that when it comes to be people like Heber, while it might look like it is the "barbed wire" that is keeping them in, the REAL walls that keep any of them "in" are their own dumb Scientology notions. The prison of beliefs is very effective.
If anyone actually "got out" and could provide honest and legitimate reports of force and violence aimed at preventing them from leaving, with at least ONE credible witness, and who would be willing to PROSECUTE, it would be over. But, when anyone "leaves" the Sea Org, sadly many take along with them many fixed ideas of Scientology. Many still believe the KSW crap, the list of suppressive acts, and assorted nonsense, so they STILL "tow the line", because they still believe that DESPITE all the insanity they endured that Scientology DOES provide the ONLY "path out of the trap".
If a person didn't somehow still want to "remain on the good side of the Church of Scientology", ANY person can walk away without a problem. As long as any person turns over power to THEM by agreeing with the Scientology paradigm, you basically agree to play by THEIR rules. And when any person does that, he or she accepts abuse, listens to the invalidation, works through the conditions, and "doesn't want to bring negative PR to the beloved Scientology". The person still hasn't walked off the ball field.
The ONLY reason I did the full routing forms, and "played nice" when I routed out of the Sea Org (twice), was because I wanted to "remain in good standing". That desire involves many ideas, beliefs and other factors (family, friends, still have some desire to "do the Bridge", etc.). If I had simply decided that Scn was total and complete bullshit, I would have disappeared one night, never to be heard from again.
My daughter tried to route of the Sea Org twice. She was brought up in the Sea Org, so she had no grounding in any other view of things. She accepted the various ideas like "Scientology is right", "we are the good guys", "anyone who routes out of the SO must be a DB", "the wog world is degraded and evil", and on and on. She never actually analyzed these notions, but they had "seeped in" from being brought up in the cult. She felt very "guilty", because she somehow imagined that "leaving" MUST be a "bad thing". Realize that she had to accept various ideas to possibly feel guilty.
If she knew what she knew now, and had
abandoned ALL "fixed ideas" related to Hubbard and Scn, she would have called me, said to pick her up at the gate of the Hacienda Gardens (a Clearwater apartment complex the church purchased to serve as staff berthing), packed her stuff, I would have had a police officer there, and THAT would have been the end of it. But, she didn't do that, and MANY don't do that, because they
still harbor many Scientology beliefs. They want OUT of the organization, because it sucks so bad, BUT they do not (yet) want OUT of Scientology completely.
The REAL prison is in their heads. When Scn finally has armed guards standing around a Scn facility and threatens phsyical harm with a weapon or body, THEN I will begin to consider that I might be off on this. While there IS very strong manipulation and extreme peer pressure, the control is almost entirely MENTAL and EMOTIONAL. That is why studies in cults MUST bring up the very real and often severe aspect of "mind control". Yes, there is SOME physical abuse, and examples of this have been reported, but it is minor (in quantity) compared to what happens on the physical and emotional levels.
Anyway, Heber, and anybody could leave TODAY
if they really wanted to. Obviousy, they don't.
Mental prisons require the agreement and participation of the prisoner. Physical prisons differ in that the prisoner often has NO agreement with the rules of the prison system. This is a key point that many miss or refuse to grasp.
Scientology sucks big boners, but also, for any staff member or Church member to "go the affect of it", one must AGREE to
play by their rules and participate. This applies ONLY to agreeable participating Church members. It does not apply to "enemies" or "critics", where the Church will go after and harm them because they DISAGREE. It matters little what one thinks about Scn when you are "out", because in those cases, your are no longer "trapped by your own agreements within the Hubbard system". Sometimes it takes years or even decades for some to unravel the Scientological-onion and free oneself from the MANY Scientology-based ideas
one has accepted, and well after having left the Church and Scientology entirely.
I am NOT saying that it is Lisa McPherson's "fault" that she died at the hands of abusive handlers. That guilt sits squarely with the Scn assholes. But, she would not have ever been there or stayed there unless she WANTED to - at least up to before she got put on the Introspection R/D. I am not "blaming her". I am not talking about blame here. I am talking about the fact that people get stuck in situations, often because they agree to. Not always, but when it comes to "mind control cults", it seems some miss just how major and severe of a factor the "mind control" actually is.
You couldn't make lots of people stay in Scientology by threatening them with physical harm, but one CAN get lots of people to stay and participate in Scn by threatening to take away their ONLY chance at "eternal freedom". That last threat ONLY works because the person has "bought into" (agrees with, believes, accepts) key aspects of the Scientology belief system.
One of the major reason that Scientology is so nasty is because it is so very effective in its methods of "mind control". At least with some people.
Heber needs to FREE HIMSELF from the many dumb ideas parading around in his head.