Brian Culkin on Scientology

[Smurf]

I contacted Graham Berry to represent a Scientologist with tons of money on account - he said he could not do it. Mike Rinder at least is doing some damage - give him a break.

It's amazing to many that a top executive of Scientology blows, not because he objected to the abuses in the cult & the suffering of many under his watch, but for purely selfish reasons, he grew tired of being DM's punching bag. Then he self-aggrandizes himself as a "white knight" because he parcels out tidbits of what he objects to in the cult. No. I won't give him a break. Mike Rinder has failed to be openly transparent about his role as OSA In't Director for decades.

Rinder reminds me of Nazi war criminal Rudolf Hess. After perpetrating war crimes, he flies to England without telling Hitler, to ostensibly negotiate a peace treaty. Hess was arrested, convicted of war crimes, and spent the rest of his life in prison.

But, because Rinder has been very selective in what he admits to, yet blames most of the blame on DM, he's to be given a free pass. Give me a break.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

It's amazing to many that a top executive of Scientology blows, not because he objected to the abuses in the cult & the suffering of many under his watch, but for purely selfish reasons, he grew tired of being DM's punching bag. Then he self-aggrandizes himself as a "white knight" because he parcels out tidbits of what he objects to in the cult. No. I won't give him a break. Mike Rinder has failed to be openly transparent about his role as OSA In't Director for decades.

Rinder reminds me of Nazi war criminal Rudolf Hess. After perpetrating war crimes, he flies to England without telling Hitler, to ostensibly negotiate a peace treaty. Hess was arrested, convicted of war crimes, and spent the rest of his life in prison.

But, because Rinder has been very selective in what he admits to, yet blames most of the blame on DM, he's to be given a free pass. Give me a break.

Yep, It's amazing to me that some people would think a top executive in Scientology would be motivated by anything other than selfish reasons. That is what the entire role playing game is based on.

Give me all of your money and I'll turn you into a make-believe Superman who is better than everyone else, so step right up and become my slave.

You don't become a top executive in Hubbard's cult unless you are a soulless piece of shit just like Hubbard.

 

[MostlyLurker]

I liked very much the video. Thank you Brian. Thank you Mark.

 

[AnonyMary]

According to Brian's affidavit, he was prepared to hire Graham Berry to represent him, until Mike Rinder trashed Graham as incompetent & untrustworthy. I don't trust anything that comes out of Blowhard Rinder's lips.

I contacted Graham Berry to represent a Scientologist with tons of money on account - he said he could not do it. Mike Rinder at least is doing some damage - give him a break. He is coming out of the bubble and will join the ranks of Marty soon - never to call himself a "scientologist" again. I predicted Marty would come out and he has. He does not call himself a Scientologist and introduces other stuff to "moving up higher". The narcissist that was implanted in both by being so tight with the devil for so long may never change - but at least the two of them did not take the "buy out"! You talk about being tempted to do so - no money, no family, no job - for cripsake - those guys are doing damage. Brian Culkin is nice and comfortable - 2 years of his life - look at the exes that spent their entire lives in the cult and are reeling from it yet they continue to do damage and won't be bought!

Theodore Babbitt needs to see Brian Culkin's video of his experience at Flag - should pose some interesting questions on his deposition!!

Graham Berry has my utmost respect and I want to comment on your statement, IM.

Each refund/repayment request is different and if Graham turned down the case you called him about, he did so for specific reasons. You can't compare these cases. Brian's was a refund & repayment to multiple scientology entities. A much bigger fish case.

I suppose Smurf has more details on what was said by Rinder to Culkin than the Culkin's 'affidavit' - really Culkin's Declaration, states. And he would because he and Graham are friends. And I know that the M&M show has been trashing Graham ever since people raised the issues of court battles and cases from the past on Marty's blog. Never the less, here is the actual Declaration statement about Graham:

"At one point in 2011, I told Rinder that I was planning to hire an attorney named Graham Berry to pursue my claims against the church. Rinder advised me against hiring Mr. Berry and told me he was going to be putting something together where a number of individuals could file suit against the Church."

So, if Graham was willing to take on Culkin's refund & repayment case against Flag, IAS, and whoever else was involved in taking his money while he was at Flag, it is because of the particulars.

When I get asked to help people who want to get a refund from Narconon of the average $30,000 they paid for the program for themselves or their loved one, I can't always help many of them get that money back. It has to do with the details such as length of stay, particulars on what lies were told, particulars on what negligence occurred... a variety of factors. In some cases I can refer them to attorneys. In some cases, there is no way an attorney will take the case because it's not profitable for them for the little amount of money they are seeking. As a last resort, I refer people to their State Consumer Affairs the Better Business Bureau. Over the years I have helped a good number of people get back in part or whole money they paid Narconon but it's a lot of work. I do it as a volunteer. I am not an attorney with years of education and experience. These refund repayment cases are complex and the church is always coming up with excuses to not pay. Most recent is that people donated the money and they don't have to refund donations. And now they are allowed to only use Scientology law and arbitration in court, at least in FL.

There was a decision in the BERT SCHIPPERS, et al vs. CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SERVICE ORGAN, CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SHIP SERVICE ORGAN case. Lynne Hoverson and Bert Schippers lost their appeal of a judge's decision. I am not sure if they actually allowed arbitration with the church to proceed but their case was dismissed shortly after this decision.

Church lawyer tells judge: 'Only Scientology law applies'
By Joe Childs and Thomas C. Tobin, Times Staff Writers
Friday, February 3, 2012 7:46pm
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...couples-dispute-over-scientology-debt/1219054

At the time in 2011, a case like Brian's was different because it included getting refunds from the IAS.

The 2013 Garcia case includes IAS and will be the test for knowing how those refunds will be dealt with by the courts
http://www.scribd.com/doc/121800398/Luis-Garcia-vs-Scientology-Fraud-Complain

My point is, one cannot compare apples to oranges in these things.

 

[Idle Morgue]

Yeah, I wrote and signed checks payable to L Ron Hubbard for over 100,000 (1972 dollars) and they described me as a 'low level staffer'... Scientology LIES.

They sure fucked with the WRONG "low level staffer" - they missed the boat on keeping you my friend. Scientology should have kept you because YOU GET THINGS DONE!!

Thank you so much for all that you have done!! You have courage and integrity far beyond most people!! You have more courage than me, for sure! I would love to hear your whole story - it really is amazing what you have done to Scientology and there was no internet. A miracle! THANK YOU!!

 

[degraded being]

I think the big difference here is that Mike is Brian's friend. As Brian's friend, Mike has much more information than the rest of us do -- shared conversations about far-ranging subjects, time spent together, back stories, and everything else that goes into a "gut opinion" about someone's character. Likewise, Geir Isene (who defended Brian here several months ago) also knew Brian IRL.

The rest of us do not have that kind of information. Brian isn't my friend. I've never met him. Thus far, I've seen only the apparent results of what Brian did and the care he did or didn't exercise.

I continue to think he acted in an incredibly naïve and irresponsible fashion. I continue to be appalled that he seemingly thought and acted like a babe in the woods when he had plenty of foreknowledge to understand he was dealing with the devil.

From where I sit, it appears Brian was motivated partly by something akin to arrogance that made him believe he could negotiate with the Church without any legal counsel and waltz out of there without causing any harm to himself and others.

And from where I sit it also appears that he behaved in ways that reflect he cared little whether his actions would harm his prior comrades. I realize he was not a party to their litigation, although the possibility of his joining similar litigation against the Church was the subject of scores of meetings he took with them. I imagine they trusted him, too.

Maybe I'm seeing it all wrong. Maybe a very different view of all this will come clear when more facts are revealed. I look forward to learning more about what happened from Brian's deposition, when and if that happens.

Finally, I appreciate how uncomfortable Brian must be if he is indeed gagged from speaking publicly as a result of his agreement with the Church. Unfortunately, that's the price of making this deal with this devil. I hope that somehow Brian can find his voice again.

TG1

"Uncomfortably gagged", but he was probably going for a sort of gagging of others who wanted to talk in public courtrooms about how an intelligent well-to-do young man like himself was silly enough to get caught by a cult which everyone in the world knows you should stay away from.
---Remembering from the video too, how secretive he was about staying at the cult's luxurious 5 star hotel and brainwashing station for an entire year. None of his friend knew, and it sounds like his parents only knew that he was interested in scientology...I sense they did not know much about how involved he really was. Money shmoney, just get my beautiful intelligent face out of that dirty mess.

 

[Purple Rain]

Yep, It's amazing to me that some people would think a top executive in Scientology would be motivated by anything other than selfish reasons. That is what the entire role playing game is based on.

Give me all of your money and I'll turn you into a make-believe Superman who is better than everyone else, so step right up and become my slave.

You don't become a top executive in Hubbard's cult unless you are a soulless piece of shit just like Hubbard.

I disagree. My friend Denise was a top executive and was always far from soulless. Yet I have known low level pieces of shit in the Sea Org like I have never seen outside of Scientology. Such generalisations are unlikely to be true by their very nature and are extremely unsupportive for top level executives who may wish to abandon ship in the future IMHO.

 

[Gib]

Graham Berry has my utmost respect and I want to comment on your statement, IM.

Each refund/repayment request is different and if Graham turned down the case you called him about, he did so for specific reasons. You can't compare these cases. Brian's was a refund & repayment to multiple scientology entities. A much bigger fish case.

I suppose Smurf has more details on what was said by Rinder to Culkin than the Culkin's 'affidavit' - really Culkin's Declaration, states. And he would because he and Graham are friends. And I know that the M&M show has been trashing Graham ever since people raised the issues of court battles and cases from the past on Marty's blog. Never the less, here is the actual Declaration statement about Graham:



So, if Graham was willing to take on Culkin's refund & repayment case against Flag, IAS, and whoever else was involved in taking his money while he was at Flag, it is because of the particulars.

When I get asked to help people who want to get a refund from Narconon of the average $30,000 they paid for the program for themselves or their loved one, I can't always help many of them get that money back. It has to do with the details such as length of stay, particulars on what lies were told, particulars on what negligence occurred... a variety of factors. In some cases I can refer them to attorneys. In some cases, there is no way an attorney will take the case because it's not profitable for them for the little amount of money they are seeking. As a last resort, I refer people to their State Consumer Affairs the Better Business Bureau. Over the years I have helped a good number of people get back in part or whole money they paid Narconon but it's a lot of work. I do it as a volunteer. I am not an attorney with years of education and experience. These refund repayment cases are complex and the church is always coming up with excuses to not pay. Most recent is that people donated the money and they don't have to refund donations. And now they are allowed to only use Scientology law and arbitration in court, at least in FL.

There was a decision in the BERT SCHIPPERS, et al vs. CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SERVICE ORGAN, CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY FLAG SHIP SERVICE ORGAN case. Lynne Hoverson and Bert Schippers lost their appeal of a judge's decision. I am not sure if they actually allowed arbitration with the church to proceed but their case was dismissed shortly after this decision.

Church lawyer tells judge: 'Only Scientology law applies'
By Joe Childs and Thomas C. Tobin, Times Staff Writers
Friday, February 3, 2012 7:46pm
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...couples-dispute-over-scientology-debt/1219054

At the time in 2011, a case like Brian's was different because it included getting refunds from the IAS.

The 2013 Garcia case includes IAS and will be the test for knowing how those refunds will be dealt with by the courts
http://www.scribd.com/doc/121800398/Luis-Garcia-vs-Scientology-Fraud-Complain

My point is, one cannot compare apples to oranges in these things.

once again, the whole crux of scientology religion and it's front groups is legal, the laws of the land.

And not hubbards #4 condition of exchange.

 

[Smurf]

07/05/2013 -- There is a new documentary in production featuring former 2 time NCAA champion Wayne Turner, his brother 'Tiny', and the public housing project where they grew up in Boston, MA.

The film is being written and directed by Brian Culkin a former executive in the financial industry who has some decent basketball credentials himself. A three time UCAA all star, all time leading scorer in the history of Skidmore college, and a brief professional basketball career overseas, Culkin played with the younger Turner in the summer basketball leagues of Boston.

http://www.sbwire.com/press-release...-former-kentucky-star-wayne-turner-277720.htm

[video=youtube;7DrgZ0qUAqI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DrgZ0qUAqI[/video]

 

[Gib]

It's amazing to many that a top executive of Scientology blows, not because he objected to the abuses in the cult & the suffering of many under his watch, but for purely selfish reasons, he grew tired of being DM's punching bag. Then he self-aggrandizes himself as a "white knight" because he parcels out tidbits of what he objects to in the cult. No. I won't give him a break. Mike Rinder has failed to be openly transparent about his role as OSA In't Director for decades.

Rinder reminds me of Nazi war criminal Rudolf Hess. After perpetrating war crimes, he flies to England without telling Hitler, to ostensibly negotiate a peace treaty. Hess was arrested, convicted of war crimes, and spent the rest of his life in prison.

But, because Rinder has been very selective in what he admits to, yet blames most of the blame on DM, he's to be given a free pass. Give me a break.

I still like his blog and what he is doing now, regardless of what you think.

I have no data other than what I have experienced vs what you say or Mike says.

I can only go on my observations in being in the cult, which have nothing to do with what you think or mike thinks.

I only compare my experiences with what is spoken by you or Mike or other executives that have spoken out

versus what the guru Ron says.

 

[Infinite]

^^^^
Marty stopped calling himself a Scientologist a while ago. It was noted somewhere on his blog but also reported at the end of the recent Channel 4 UK report by the narrator.

[video=youtube_share;Ljtk429HF3U]http://youtu.be/Ljtk429HF3U[/video]​

I stand corrected, thank you. Seems odd that "Marty rejects the label Scientologist" yet still offers Scientology [STRIKE]hypnotism[/STRIKE] processing and, thus, my confusion. I wonder how he gets around the licensing / tax implications of providing counselling services without the religious angle? Still, along with the Scientology label, he's also claimed to have rejected KSW. If it wasn't for his lying about the subject and L Ron Hubbard I'd have start giving him the benefit of the doubt . . . hmmm.

One thing's for sure, he's a lucky bastard. Having rewatched that documentary, I am again amazed he's pulled a woman like Mosey to stand by his side. She is his saving grace.

Infinite, I'm sending you to cramming.

From now on every day you must read Marty's blog and all new comments three times through, Method One star-rated, with clay demos. Post your daily compliance reports to this thread.

And do try to keep up.



TG1

But, but but . . . isn't there a gradient, don't I have to work up to that, like spending a week sticking pins in my eyeballs first?

 

[Infinite]

. . . I suppose Smurf has more details on what was said by Rinder to Culkin than the Culkin's 'affidavit' - really Culkin's Declaration, states. And he would because he and Graham are friends. And I know that the M&M show has been trashing Graham ever since people raised the issues of court battles and cases from the past on Marty's blog. Never the less, here is the actual Declaration statement about Graham:

"At one point in 2011, I told Rinder that I was planning to hire an attorney named Graham Berry to pursue my claims against the church. Rinder advised me against hiring Mr. Berry and told me he was going to be putting something together where a number of individuals could file suit against the Church."

So, if Graham was willing to take on Culkin's refund & repayment case against Flag, IAS, and whoever else was involved in taking his money while he was at Flag, it is because of the particulars.

I'm not sure how you can reach that conclusion. The M&M Show has worked hard to put itself in the middle of potentially important litigation against the cult (cf: Debbie Cook and the Headleys) and, so far, has met with a singular lack of success. Odd, don't you think? Given Rinder's comments about Berry (and others) I suspect Smurf's statement is more likely.

[video=youtube_share;EpKxMplCFL8]http://youtu.be/EpKxMplCFL8[/video]​

 

[AnonyMary]

I'm not sure how you can reach that conclusion. The M&M Show has worked hard to put itself in the middle of potentially important litigation against the cult (cf: Debbie Cook and the Headleys) and, so far, has met with a singular lack of success. Odd, don't you think? Given Rinder's comments about Berry (and others) I suspect Smurf's statement is more likely.

Originally Posted by AnonyMary
. . . I suppose Smurf has more details on what was said by Rinder to Culkin than the Culkin's 'affidavit' - really Culkin's Declaration, states. And he would because he and Graham are friends. And I know that the M&M show has been trashing Graham ever since people raised the issues of court battles and cases from the past on Marty's blog. Never the less, here is the actual Declaration statement about Graham:

"At one point in 2011, I told Rinder that I was planning to hire an attorney named Graham Berry to pursue my claims against the church. Rinder advised me against hiring Mr. Berry and told me he was going to be putting something together where a number of individuals could file suit against the Church."

So, if Graham was willing to take on Culkin's refund & repayment case against Flag, IAS, and whoever else was involved in taking his money while he was at Flag, it is because of the particulars.

[video=youtube_share;EpKxMplCFL8]http://youtu.be/EpKxMplCFL8[/video]​

I am not sure what my conclusion at the end of my comment quoted above in bold, has to do with Smurf's statement. I never said Smurf's statement was not correct. I presume it is correct and noted why. It was an extension of what Culkin wrote in his declaration, that's all. Read again what I wrote.

I stand by my conclusion on why the particulars are indeed what attorneys go by in deciding to represent someone in a refund repayment request or not.

 

[Smurf]

I still like his blog and what he is doing now, regardless of what you think. I have no data other than what I have experienced vs what you say or Mike says. I can only go on my observations in being in the cult, which have nothing to do with what you think or mike thinks.

I could care less what you think. I'm not your mother. I worked under Mike Rinder & did his bidding. I did alot of awful shit as an OSA operative & hurt alot of people, which was under Mike Rinder's watch and of which he had full knowledge..something that will haunt me for the rest of my life.

I have been open & transparent about my activities in OSA. Mike Rinder has not. He's been very selective in what he reveals while blaming all his actions on David Miscavige. Granted DM is a criminal and has committed horrendous acts as COB. That doesn't excuse Mike Rinder who uses DM as his convenient scapegoat.

DM's perpetuation of abuses & criminality in Scientology does not remove the accountability of his current & former execs.

 

[Purple Rain]

I could care less what you think. I'm not your mother. I worked under Mike Rinder & did his bidding. I did alot of awful shit as an OSA operative & hurt alot of people, which was under Mike Rinder's watch and of which he had full knowledge..something that will haunt me for the rest of my life.

I have been open & transparent about my activities in OSA. Mike Rinder has not. He's been very selective in what he reveals while blaming all his actions on David Miscavige. Granted DM is a criminal and has committed horrendous acts as COB. That doesn't excuse Mike Rinder who uses DM as his convenient scapegoat.

DM's perpetuation of abuses & criminality in Scientology does not remove the accountability of his current & former execs.

I'm so sorry, Smurf. That is a terrible thing to live with and I admire you so much for being open and honest about the past you're ashamed of. I think in the end you gain the most from that courage though, because public confession does bring some kind of closure and gives you freedom from blackmail and takes the sting out of any smearing.

A lot of my own thread was about that for me - to get that relief from things that haunted me. When I faced those demons I found I was not as bad as I had thought. To be honest I often felt suicidal until then - not that I would ever have really done anything because I thought it was too selfish and I was too much of a coward. But I just wanted to die most of the time. And being open and honest to the whole world about what I thought were the worst parts of me enabled others to shine a light on my situation that got me to see things in a whole different way. Not that the bad stuff is not bad - but just that maybe I didn't have to feel like something that lives under a rock all the time. And at the end of the day, if people accept you knowing the worst, you know they are your true friends.

I can honestly recommend that to anybody - although I guess for some people it may have consequences that affect their whole life. But in general it is a really healing thing to do if you can find it deep in yourself to do so.

I hope Mike Rinder will choose to do that some day.

 

[Gib]

I could care less what you think. I'm not your mother. I worked under Mike Rinder & did his bidding. I did alot of awful shit as an OSA operative & hurt alot of people, which was under Mike Rinder's watch and of which he had full knowledge..something that will haunt me for the rest of my life.

I have been open & transparent about my activities in OSA. Mike Rinder has not. He's been very selective in what he reveals while blaming all his actions on David Miscavige. Granted DM is a criminal and has committed horrendous acts as COB. That doesn't excuse Mike Rinder who uses DM as his convenient scapegoat.

DM's perpetuation of abuses & criminality in Scientology does not remove the accountability of his current & former execs.

That's cool Smurf, like I said:

I still like his blog and what he is doing now, regardless of what you think.

I have no data other than what I have experienced vs what you say or Mike says.

I can only go on my observations in being in the cult, which have nothing to do with what you think or mike thinks.

I only compare my experiences with what is spoken by you or Mike or other executives that have spoken out

versus what the guru Ron says.

 

[WildKat]

Bumping this thread, since Culkin is back in the news.

http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/15/re...blasts-scientology-in-court-filing/#more-8367

If you haven't seen Brian's video, I still recommend it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...2FjKhE#at=3632

 

[Mike Laws]

Bumping this thread, since Culkin is back in the news.

http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/15/re...blasts-scientology-in-court-filing/#more-8367

If you haven't seen Brian's video, I still recommend it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...2FjKhE#at=3632

If you combine these two things, the articulate, wide eyed naivete expressed in the video at the evil encountered in Scientology, with a man wanting to get his life back, and then his hiring Ray Jeffrey ... you can actually get a taste of who this person really is. He is cultured and was born into a fairly privileged and civilized socioeconomic strata. He really doesn't get people lying to his face, and has a strong tendency to take people at their word ... he is not a street fighter. But, this shows he can demonstrate solid backbone.

 

[Idle Morgue]

If you combine these two things, the articulate, wide eyed naivete expressed in the video at the evil encountered in Scientology, with a man wanting to get his life back, and then his hiring Ray Jeffrey ... you can actually get a taste of who this person really is. He is cultured and was born into a fairly privileged and civilized socioeconomic strata. He really doesn't get people lying to his face, and has a strong tendency to take people at their word ... he is not a street fighter. But, this shows he can demonstrate solid backbone.

What are you Mike - his lover for petesake? Let him stand up for himself. He was man enough to stand up the cult and get his refund! He messed up the Garcia suit plain and simple and needs to fix it and reimburse Garcia's for the extra attorney fees! Make up the damage Brian Culkin - you did plenty!!

I know people that have been financially ruined by Scientology - completely bankrupt and broke. Lost their homes and retirements accounts. They did not come from socioeconomic privileged families - they trusted this evil cult and the cult took everything from them!! That is why this Garcia Fraud lawsuit is important - for THEM! They NEED their money back to survive and no attorney - Jeffries or Babbitt will help them because they don't come from the socioeconomic privileged families who can pay attorney fees to fight.

This lawsuit is for them and I want them to have a chance at getting that money back!! This lawsuit is for all the innocent victims who don't know they are walking into satan's den.

Let's have some empathy for the real victims here!!

 

[WildKat]

If you combine these two things, the articulate, wide eyed naivete expressed in the video at the evil encountered in Scientology, with a man wanting to get his life back, and then his hiring Ray Jeffrey ... you can actually get a taste of who this person really is. He is cultured and was born into a fairly privileged and civilized socioeconomic strata. He really doesn't get people lying to his face, and has a strong tendency to take people at their word ... he is not a street fighter. But, this shows he can demonstrate solid backbone.

Yeah, I got that too. And with that background and the $350,000 back in his pocket, he should be able to give the cult quite a ride in the legal arena. At least I hope so.