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Scientology's End - less wishful thinking please

TheSpectator

Patron with Honors
Greetings!

(Some quotes)

After lurking here for quite a while, I humbly notice in thread after thread the large numbers of posters breathlessly predicting the collapse of the church and its impact: it's all crashing down, they'll go bust, Miscavige will run, Miscavige won't run, there will be a coup, mass suicides, armed last-stands, the media will go to town, the world will learn of the atrocities, Governments will lock them all up, Monique is making history, ...

It's generally a frenzy of exasperation and wishful-thinking filling the information void. It is difficult to separate those people with valid info from those who are longing for their fantasy to be true.

If Miscavige ran to Nicaragua tomorrow, hundreds of people would defend and follow. Thousands would believe it was the next step in some crusade. It is better to be in the group than wrong.

I, of course, am exasperated like others to see the harm that it brings its adherents, but we should remember that Scientology is a tiny, tiny thing in a big, big world. It is a minor self-help subject in a world with famine and wars and pandemics and disasters. More people buy a 10th-rate self-published e-book about sexy rainbow dragons (I assume) than call themselves Scientologists. More people once read the relationship book 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' than possibly have even heard of Hubbard.

If Monique Rathbun was deposing the Catholic Pope or the head of the Russian Orthodox church or even a prominent television evangelist in the US, world media would almost certainly be jockeying for position in the court room with highly-paid analysts back in the studio to pick over the details.

…Scientology is affecting perhaps 25,000 middle-class robots, and it is, thankfully, dying.

The people who know the details are the ones on the inside with information, not speculation. To hasten the demise it needs these people to act and start supplying information and documents that cannot be denied, and class-action suits to generate media interest. The world will just keep turning in the meantime, oblivious.

Cheerio!

You've written a great post!

Most would agree that Scientology is dying, albeit at different speeds; some believe its demise is imminent while others think it may take some time. I think it will take some time because of its assets and money, and its disproportionate influence compared to similar small groups.


  1. Scientology has amassed quite a fortune of at least a billion dollars (likely more). There's more than enough money to keep Miscavige happy for the rest of his life and keep Scientology in existence in some form for a long time. I would think that money is actively invested in world markets, not just sitting in a bank vault somewhere. Possibly black markets too?
  2. OSA has lots of blackmail and influence on many public leaders. Possibly LA Sheriff Lee Baca is an example. My instincts tell me there are many other more powerful world leaders that Scientology influences. Some of OSA's information could be more damaging than the CIA's!
  3. Because of these things, Scientology is much more powerful that its small membership might indicate.

Also, I think if and when Miscavige runs it'll be to some small but rich Middle East country like Dubai. May as well live out your life in exile in comfort!
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I have a little nook in my home where I have a picture of LRH. I give it an offering of several $5 and $10 bills, somehow the bills disappear and I have to do the offering every week. :roflmao:

For awhile I used pictures of LRH & DM taken from the crap mail for target practice until I got tired of putting holes in 'em.
 

Gib

Crusader
You've written a great post!

Most would agree that Scientology is dying, albeit at different speeds; some believe its demise is imminent while others think it may take some time. I think it will take some time because of its assets and money, and its disproportionate influence compared to similar small groups.


  1. Scientology has amassed quite a fortune of at least a billion dollars (likely more).
    There's more than enough money to keep Miscavige happy for the rest of his life and keep Scientology in existence in some form for a long time.
    I would think that money is actively invested in world markets, not just sitting in a bank vault somewhere. Possibly black markets too?
  2. OSA has lots of blackmail and influence on many public leaders. Possibly LA Sheriff Lee Baca is an example. My instincts tell me there are many other more powerful world leaders that Scientology influences. Some of OSA's information could be more damaging than the CIA's!
  3. Because of these things, Scientology is much more powerful that its small membership might indicate.

Also, I think if and when Miscavige runs it'll be to some small but rich Middle East country like Dubai. May as well live out your life in exile in comfort!

while the boatload of money is meaningful,

IMHO, the only thing keeping it alive is actually the lawyers.

edit: which is why hubbard said "with enough money you can buy yourself out of any game you don't wish to play". And it also correlates with hubbard's power formula as depicted and analysed by Jeff Hawkins over at Tony O's blog not too long ago.
 
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uniquemand

Unbeliever
What's it about then? If it was about anything (or anyone) else, I don't see how you could call it Satanism - or perhaps more to the point, why you would want to? It's not exactly a great brand name is it?

It's about finding yourself as the source of enlightenment and power, rather than seeking it in "The Father".

Lucifer is "The Lightbringer", the one who teaches enlightenment.
 
I am of two opinions about the end - make that three - of scientology.

A) Miscavage runs it into the ground, and the fraud suits start making head way and it is bankrupted. The bankruptcies force the sale of the buildings and it is delivered by small passionate groups of true believers.

B)it limps along sucking off the whale's teats. Miscavage gets replaced but it remains much the same PTS to all of the law suits it hangs on for years in that state despite occaisional up ticks, because they try to keep all the tech and policy intact, with all of its' inherent faults.

C) A Miscavage clone (or a consortium) sees the chance for big money - kicks or buys Miscavage out, blames everything on him, they do some major tweaks (canceling fair game, disconnection in a PR blitz, maybe can GAT I & II, and spend a lot of cash on Dianetics campaigns and the like) and fill the place with new bodies.

He has been doing whatever he can to prevent his ouster, and all it would take is a coup or a buy out, and a smart cookie with good marketing skills. Kinda like the story with the Las Vegas casinos - they got rid of the crooks that ran the gambling houses, and turned into the corporate money maker it is today. What is he really, but one more mobster?

Mimsey
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
For awhile I used pictures of LRH & DM taken from the crap mail for target practice until I got tired of putting holes in 'em.


:hysterical:

What caliber did you find blew the most BPC?

Now I am starting to guess the make/model of your gun. Hmmmmm......You don't seem like a Glock kinda guy. And I don't see you as a 1911 model 45 caliber dude either. Damn, this is not going to be easy. Okay, I'll take a wild guess. Probably 9mm, maybe Beretta or Sig?

Oh no, wait, now I am thinking revolver (38).

My OT powers are not working right now. Let me go do some O/Ws and I'll come back later and try again. :giggle:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I understand the analogy you're trying to make but, if you read the diaries, letters/correspondences, public statements and autobiographies of the Donner Party survivors you'd find CO2's comment is most accurate and apropos.:yes:

Face:)

One of the adolescent survivors of the Donner Party wrote this in a letter to her cousin about what she learned about Life from that Winter in the Sierras, a short while after rescue ...

"Hurry along fast as you can but take no cutoffs."

All of Us were all hurrying along fast as we could but we took a "cutoff".

There was no "shortcut" to where we trying to and wanted to go, we just thought there was and we took it.

Now, we're "survivors".

Face:)
 
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Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
I am of two opinions about the end - make that three - of scientology.

A) Miscavage runs it into the ground, and the fraud suits start making head way and it is bankrupted. The bankruptcies force the sale of the buildings and it is delivered by small passionate groups of true believers.

B)it limps along sucking off the whale's teats. Miscavage gets replaced but it remains much the same PTS to all of the law suits it hangs on for years in that state despite occaisional up ticks, because they try to keep all the tech and policy intact, with all of its' inherent faults.

C) A Miscavage clone (or a consortium) sees the chance for big money - kicks or buys Miscavage out, blames everything on him, they do some major tweaks (canceling fair game, disconnection in a PR blitz, maybe can GAT I & II, and spend a lot of cash on Dianetics campaigns and the like) and fill the place with new bodies.

He has been doing whatever he can to prevent his ouster, and all it would take is a coup or a buy out, and a smart cookie with good marketing skills. Kinda like the story with the Las Vegas casinos - they got rid of the crooks that ran the gambling houses, and turned into the corporate money maker it is today. What is he really, but one more mobster?

Mimsey

Really, mobsters are much nicer.

IRL, I've known "made" guys & been near the midget. The mobsers are a whole lot better human beings. Really.
 
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uniquemand

Unbeliever
Toad, O/W's and Objectives were at one time considered the route to OT. Do O/W's until there are none accessible to run, then do Objectives until responsibility and therefore accessibility expanded, then do another round of O/W's, etc.
 

ILove2Lurk

Lisbeth Salander

Obi_Wan_Kenobi_by_ssava.jpg


I felt a great disturbance in the Force in November, as
if thousands of voices quietly cried out in desperation
and personal terror and realized it was all over.

With an abysmal Super Power unveiling and the overwhelming
nonacceptance of GAT II, I feel something terrible has happened.

It's over.

Future historians throughout the galaxies and Interwebs
will memorialize November 2013 as its final moment.


:coolwink:
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
:hysterical:

What caliber did you find blew the most BPC? 12 gauge !

Now I am starting to guess the make/model of your gun. Hmmmmm......You don't seem like a Glock kinda guy. And I don't see you as a 1911 model 45 caliber dude either. Damn, this is not going to be easy. Okay, I'll take a wild guess. Probably 9mm, maybe Beretta or Sig?

Oh no, wait, now I am thinking revolver (38).

My OT powers are not working right now. Let me go do some O/Ws and I'll come back later and try again. :giggle:

You are one of the extremely few people online that I'm willing to give honest answers... so...


I'll do one of my rare give-away-too-much-info-about-myself.....

My favorite pistol is a custom made single shot Encore, 16" barrel with muzzle brake, scoped & bipod - chamber in 223 as a coyote pistol. The most accurate I've ever owned.

Next.... 44 Magnum, 6 " barrel, scoped

Third.... 357 Magnum, 4" barrel

Fourth.....45...( yep ) 1911

Don't own a 9MM

Do I prefer revolvers ? Big time !

Rifles

Fav................30 / 06 semi

Next.....................308 bolt ....Scope...Bipod...Savage....almost a sniper rifle
Also 308 in semi.... also 'bout all that can be done / added to it

Fun..................SKS

Best ? .223 Remington.....Bolt...Bull Barrel...Target Rifle.. Bipod...tack driver ( 2nd most accurate )

All these pistols / rifles have been, uh, cusomized more than a little.

Do I have more rifles ? Yeah more than I'm going to list here !

In 22's....Ruger 10/22 Target bull barrel & pistol... target bull barrel

( I still like to start instruction of others with a 22 & I'll usually shoot a 22 to warm up & get back in the groove before switching to other weapons. I continue to believe there is nothing about shooting that can't be learned with a 22 - except handling heavy recoil )

Shotguns.....Cheap Mossberg 12 gauge with open short barrel & longer full choke barrel ( stock )

Beretta semiautomatic for trap & Mossberg 410 for fun. ( both stock )

38 you got right - S & W Airlight for my concealed carry. ( only trigger pull lightened )

And, yes, If I'm not in the pool I'm armed.

Is the 44 Mag on my desk right now not a foot from me ? Yes.
Is the 357 in the end table next the couch where I watch TV ? Yes/
Is the 12 gauge next to bed ? Yes

Are they all loaded ? Oh HELL yes !

Long time Lifetime NRA Member.

I qualify as a certified gun nut !


Oh, most people who have seen me shoot do regard me as a pretty good shot out to 600 yards - LOL!
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
I understand the analogy you're trying to make but, if you read the diaries, letters/correspondences, public statements and autobiographies of the Donner Party survivors you'd find CO2's comment is most accurate and apropos.:yes:

Face:)

Interesting point.
If this wasn't the cult's winter of exes extreme discontent, would it have made it?

I think it was doomed by lies from the very start. Even if the winter was mild, how far would they get with imaginary wheels on the wagon.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
You are one of the extremely few people online that I'm willing to give honest answers... so...


I'll do one of my rare give-away-too-much-info-about-myself.....

My favorite pistol is a custom made single shot Encore, 16" barrel with muzzle brake, scoped & bipod - chamber in 223 as a coyote pistol. The most accurate I've ever owned.

Next.... 44 Magnum, 6 " barrel, scoped

Third.... 357 Magnum, 4" barrel

Fourth.....45...( yep ) 1911

Don't own a 9MM

Do I prefer revolvers ? Big time !

Rifles

Fav................30 / 06 semi

Next.....................308 bolt ....Scope...Bipod...Savage....almost a sniper rifle
Also 308 in semi.... also 'bout all that can be done / added to it

Fun..................SKS

Best ? .223 Remington.....Bolt...Bull Barrel...Target Rifle.. Bipod...tack driver ( 2nd most accurate )

All these pistols / rifles have been, uh, cusomized more than a little.

Do I have more rifles ? Yeah more than I'm going to list here !

In 22's....Ruger 10/22 Target bull barrel & pistol... target bull barrel

( I still like to start instruction of others with a 22 & I'll usually shoot a 22 to warm up & get back in the groove before switching to other weapons. I continue to believe there is nothing about shooting that can't be learned with a 22 - except handling heavy recoil )

Shotguns.....Cheap Mossberg 12 gauge with open short barrel & longer full choke barrel ( stock )

Beretta semiautomatic for trap & Mossberg 410 for fun. ( both stock )

38 you got right - S & W Airlight for my concealed carry. ( only trigger pull lightened )

And, yes, If I'm not in the pool I'm armed.

Is the 44 Mag on my desk right now not a foot from me ? Yes.
Is the 357 in the end table next the couch where I watch TV ? Yes/
Is the 12 gauge next to bed ? Yes

Are they all loaded ? Oh HELL yes !

Long time Lifetime NRA Member.

I qualify as a certified gun nut !


Oh, most people who have seen me shoot do regard me as a pretty good shot out to 600 yards - LOL!

Whoa! Thanks! That was entertaining! Seriously! LOL.
 
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