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Big Farmer

Patron with Honors
I won't argue with that, though in my particular case chances are high that I contributed to the source code of the web browser that you used to post this message. If you drive, then chances are also very high that software I wrote helped locate the oil that went into your car. If your car has an in-dash infotainment system or GPS its quite possible that some of my code is in there as well.

So it's all your fault?
 

kate8024

-deleted-
Kate,
I have a very simple question. You want to "fix" things, okay so tell me how you are going to "fix" the deeply entrenched - but vital to the scientology system - disconnection/shunning methodology?

Because I don't view myself as needing to be _the_ person that fixes it. Instead my goal is to get individual people that I interact with within Scientology to question the value and things like this compared to their detrimental impact. Maybe it eventually feeds into a reform movement, maybe it feeds into people leaving. I don't particularly care either way if others wish to leave or wish to try to also feed into a reform movement, that's up to them.

Also tell me how many real living people have you sat with, perhaps sipping tea with, that have LOST ALL contact with their child/children (and other loved ones) due to disconnection methods used in the scientology system?

In person from Scientology none but about 10 different ex-Mormons and ex-JW's who experienced similar types of systematic disconnection. There have also been several cases within my family of religious-based disconnection even though their religions didn't have such a thing as formal policy.

How do you plan to "fix" all the very real suffering and misery that has been created by scientology over decades?

Build a time machine? I dunno.... how you do plan on fixing the past?

One last curiosity I have before I go do something meaningful with my day, all this intellectual stuff ain't giving an atom of comfort to the many of us that have lost loved ones, so how does your moral compass guide you in such a dilemma?

I certainly feel sorry that you have lost loved ones. I've lost my share as well due to other factors and it can be difficult. The sole purpose of this board, though, is not emotional comfort. There are certainly many people here who are excellent at providing emotional support who have actually been through nearly identical experiences. There is plenty room, IMHO, on ESMB for intellectual discussion in addition to discussion by those seeking emotional support.
 

MissWog

Silver Meritorious Patron
empathy-quote-a-place-for-mom.png
 

kate8024

-deleted-
Good luck with that, if you could do that before a person even got close to the insanity that Hubbard created, then you might have a great purpose there-in, keeping some poor souls safer in life by teaching them where their feet are and how to run. the. fuck. away.

Well, and there is some truth to this. I'm in a position to sometimes talk rather frankly about Scientology with those who are just getting started. I'm pretty darn sure that I've already scared off a few and I don't view that necessarily as a bad thing. Scientology isn't, in my opinion, a good for most people in its current incarnation, whether in the indie field or the orthodox version. Still, I believe it's not my job to decide for them whether or not Scientology is a good fit for them but it is my job to point them to critical information or ask them questions designed to get them to question things that aren't so far outside of their current mindset that they feel the need to dismiss them out of hand.

In a way it sounds like you are trying to cure the ills of scientology with scientology, an errand that strikers me as foolish and blinded.

Well that's not an explicit goal of mine though certainly when talking to Scientologists I sometimes point out inconsistencies and my mantra is that a datum is only as useful as it has been evaluated and that many things in Scientology require a high degree of evaluation before they should be (and to what degree and in what contexts) either accepted or rejected. Often Scientology beats the "don't take anything on blind faith" drum when it comes to new public because that get's people interested. I'm merely encouraging the people I interact with not to give up on this and not to assume everything is true just because one of two things they experienced the first week are true.

:rose: to Kate even though I may disagree with so much, I mean no harm or affront.

I appreciate that, thanks! I certainly mean to harm or affront to you or anyone else here either.
 

sallydannce

Gold Meritorious Patron
What can I say except I've proved, to myself, what I was thinking. And no, I ain't revealing what I have been thinking.

Nice one Kate. You are magnifiscent.
 

Boomima

Patron with Honors
I have spent inordinate amount of time reading these things. I certainly don't claim to know everything but I do know my position based on what I have read thus far. I don't dismiss the pain and suffering, as I've stated I'm actively working to fixing it in my own way. It may not be the way you would do it, but it's the way I'm trying to do it.

But the pain and suffering is an integral part of what LRH wrote and the systems and technology he developed. You can parse out the bits that he stole from other people but that won't be Scientology.

Another thing to consider is that there are people here with decades of time in the church under their belt, with a better knowledge of Scientology than you and I will ever have, people who knew LRH and worked for him directly. None of those people could change a thing. All they could do is leave.

I am reminded of something David Mayo posted here once. He said something to the effect of "When I first got out, I thought "tech good, management bad." He's since changed his mind.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
>snipped<I don't particularly care either way if others wish to leave (the Cof$)

The sole purpose of this board, though, is not emotional comfort.

The lack of compassionate empathy for Ex's that have been through the cult and those still in is astonishing.

Empathy.jpg
 
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MathScience

Patron
Have you ever had the feeling that you've become trapped in a Seinfeld episode? You know, meaningless but with a lot of blah, blah, blah?

(I'm not sure if I'm asking this about Scientology, or this thread :pullhair:)
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
Have you ever had the feeling that you've become trapped in a Seinfeld episode? You know, meaningless but with a lot of blah, blah, blah?

(I'm not sure if I'm asking this about Scientology, or this thread :pullhair:)

Such as Yada Yada? I get that impression as well. LOL.

[video=youtube;O6kRqnfsBEc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6kRqnfsBEc[/video]
 
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Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
Have you ever had the feeling that you've become trapped in a Seinfeld episode? You know, meaningless but with a lot of blah, blah, blah?

(I'm not sure if I'm asking this about Scientology, or this thread :pullhair:)

Yeah, there is a lot of blather here. IMO, this happens when a particular person on a thread is put under a spotlight. People are mainly talking at Kate and not to her.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
It's like being friends with (or, in my case, married to) a smoker. Or a friend who has an uber domineering boyfriend. The person may see so clearly what that other person should do but you know, it doesn't seem the same to the friend.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
>snipped<I don't particularly care either way if others wish to leave (the Cof$)

The sole purpose of this board, though, is not emotional comfort.

The lack of compassionate empathy for Ex's that have been through the cult and those still in is astonishing.

Empathy.jpg

Are you implying that emotional support is the sole purpose of this board?

No, I'm implying a lack of compassionate empathy for not understanding why such virtues are here in the first place regarding the vicious heinous acts the cult inflicts on people and the inner suffering Ex's have had to endure. When you can grasp that, $cientology isn't an academic intellectual pursuit, it's a criminal tragedy.
 
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