degraded being
Sponsor
It worked for me just now.
Kha Khans - the derail thread on the Saints of Independent $cientology
- Thread starter Udarnik
- Start date
It worked for me just now.
Udarnik
Gold Meritorious Patron
For me either. Try linking the original post. The search function on this message board software (not just ESMB, all of them that run on this platform) sucks donkey balls.
degraded being
Sponsor
I just checked again. Don't know why it works for me and not youse.
I scrolled through D Mayo's posts and randomly opened some. I found posts which I thought would be interesting to you. A couple mentioned that after scientology he studied psychology, one mentioned that he'd recently had dinner with a psychiatrist, one mentioned how he could have taken his academic study path that he had started when he was young but regrettably got into scio instead. One mentioned he did not believe in past lives or future lives. One was about some auditing he helped to develop (NOTS or LS) which he talks about as something he regrets etc.
Sorry but I don't feel like jacking around with trying to get the link to work etc....I was going to post stuff a few days ago but didn't, then had to re-find them etc then again to day. I searched in advance search and put 'David Mayo' in a couple of the searches to get his posts. Alternatively you could search for David Mayo, and find a single post and from that click his name and then the option to see all his posts.
Udarnik
Gold Meritorious Patron
OK, I'll look for those. Admittedly, I start out holding Mayo in lower esteem than most of y'all because he trained in physics, IIRC. One of the few people who were in a technical field before starting scio, and he should have had the tools to recognize the BS.
That being said, one of the great deficiencies in modern technical education is that it skimps on the philosophical underpinnings. That we are generally expected to pick up on our own. This is true throughout the Western world, but especially so in US universities, where electives are spread all over the place in a vain attempt to round the education.
Student of Trinity
Silver Meritorious Patron
Unfortunately it would probably be bad to have a thread opposite to this, praising everyone around here who has been down-to-earth and open-minded. There'd be pressure to keep posting about more people, until everyone got sick of it all; and then those people who happened to come in at the end would feel despised in comparison. But just to give a clear example to show that there are people like this, I'd mention Paul. A lot of Paul's conclusions seem like Woo to me, but the main reason I usually dislike Woo is that too many pedlars of Woo have clear ulterior motives. There are things they would obviously do, if they really took their own stuff seriously — but they don't do them; or things they wouldn't do if, which they do; and where conviction can't explain this behavior, self-interest can. Like, if anyone really believed that fixed drills for meditation could be beneficial, they'd make an online robot instead of charging for auditing. So to me Paul's a sort of test case that proves something.
And I probably disagree even more on conclusions with Terrill, but I owe Terrill something important. A few years ago here I boasted that I could explain things in physics, and Terrill challenged me to explain something about how car engines worked. The topic was new to me, but I think Terrill agreed I did a decent job of answering. The thing is, I found the topic very interesting, and kept on thinking about it. It led me to a set of problems that are now my main research focus; and so in a sense I owe the whole thing to Terrill. I don't mean to give Terrill credit for the concrete details, but I think the way he came up with such a fruitful question shows that he has a sound appreciation of how abstract theories and concrete facts can relate. If somebody's got that, I'm a lot less bothered when they disagree with me.
I'm otherwise so sympathetic with Udarnik's reactions that I'm inclined to say 'we' about what this thread is doing, even though it's just his thread. I just want to make clear that 'we' are not trying to tar everyone with one brush, or even say that anyone is all bad. It's a specific beef with a certain bogus kind of 'altitude'. Everybody tries to stand on tiptoe once in a while, but not everybody spends so much time on stilts that they count as a Kha Khan.
And I probably disagree even more on conclusions with Terrill, but I owe Terrill something important. A few years ago here I boasted that I could explain things in physics, and Terrill challenged me to explain something about how car engines worked. The topic was new to me, but I think Terrill agreed I did a decent job of answering. The thing is, I found the topic very interesting, and kept on thinking about it. It led me to a set of problems that are now my main research focus; and so in a sense I owe the whole thing to Terrill. I don't mean to give Terrill credit for the concrete details, but I think the way he came up with such a fruitful question shows that he has a sound appreciation of how abstract theories and concrete facts can relate. If somebody's got that, I'm a lot less bothered when they disagree with me.
I'm otherwise so sympathetic with Udarnik's reactions that I'm inclined to say 'we' about what this thread is doing, even though it's just his thread. I just want to make clear that 'we' are not trying to tar everyone with one brush, or even say that anyone is all bad. It's a specific beef with a certain bogus kind of 'altitude'. Everybody tries to stand on tiptoe once in a while, but not everybody spends so much time on stilts that they count as a Kha Khan.
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
AW had zero stature as far as I was concerned, but ESMB was fairly new when he was around and many of us were still working out what was what ourselves (onion peeling) and there was also a lot of genuine interest from many here about tubs hubbard and AW had stories, as did Dart (who I met many years ago).
If AW was here now I could absolutely guarantee he would would cop some flak were he to try and push his Knowledgism business, as any indie (or any business) would ... but as you say, he was astute enough not to do that and would perhaps have felt it unnecessary anyway as people would contact him via PM if interested enough once he had made a few posts (reach and withdraw often works).
Knowledgism has been promoted here but the promoter (not AW) fell on his arse after receiving a few firm shoves from some of us, though I'm sure he'd say otherwise were he to deign to post on this thread, instead of just reading it.
David Mayo as much as said (via a few "likes" and some carefully worded short posts and PM's) that he now thought it was all a complete crock and his main interest these days is in organic gardening, that was a few years ago but I definitely got the impression he was 100% done with anything tek wise and if he ever was driven by ego (which I doubt) he no longer appeared that way to me and was a lovely man who has paid a very high price overall for his involvement in the cult.
Terril park
Sponsor
Alan wrote:-
"I originated the locate and indicate technology and the original 1st L1
and L4 correction lists."
These refer to auditing correction lists, not the L's
rundowns.
L1 checking for any upsets.
L4 checking for wrong items.
"I originated the locate and indicate technology and the original 1st L1
and L4 correction lists."
These refer to auditing correction lists, not the L's
rundowns.
L1 checking for any upsets.
L4 checking for wrong items.
Terril park
Sponsor
I think I was making a point about how lack of mass was a valid
problem re study, and asked you to explain how Honda's variable
valve timing worked, and you did an excellent job.
I'm very curious as to how that helped you with quantum
physics?
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Yeah.
My little old Robot has two L1s, Alan's original List 1 at http://paulsrobot3.com/acw/list1/index.htm and the modern L1C at http://paulsrobot3.com/scn/ruds/L1C-clear-and-groove-in.htm.
These two links each show the single page that contains all the list questions at one time, for those averse to clicking more than once:
http://paulsrobot3.com/acw/list1/list1-method-5.htm
http://paulsrobot3.com/scn/ruds/L1C-method-5.htm
Should anyone want to actually run a session using these (M5-style) lists, start from the top links and not these single-click links.
I have no use for an L4, original or modern, nor for L&N.
Paul
Veda
Sponsor
Let's let David Mayo speak for himself, from 26 April 2011:
The entire thread may be viewed by clicking the horizontal arrows.
Student of Trinity
Silver Meritorious Patron
I started thinking seriously about how engines in general worked, in mechanical terms. I didn't know, because I'm the kind of scientist who knows more about the Higgs boson than he does about his car (or his toaster for that matter). As usual in theoretical physics, I tried to imagine the simplest possible thing that could represent the problem — in this case, the simplest possible mechanical system that could work as an engine. I discovered that the basic laws of mechanics could in principle permit devices far smaller and simpler than I think anyone has suspected, which would in some ways be very different from normal engines, but in many ways be remarkably similar, and do much the same job.
Further work along these lines might conceivably lead to autonomous nanobots, or something. So maybe I'll be partly to blame for destroying the world. Or maybe I'll be one of the grandfathers or great-grandfathers of 22nd century medical treatments that inject you with swarms of nanodrones that swim through your blood to hunt down cancer cells.
Anyway, I'm having fun with it, and I have three PhD students working on it now, though one is going to graduate tomorrow.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
After many decades, my opinion on auditing is similar to yours: it produces a short-term euphoric state (F/N VGIs) which is not lasting. Over time, it can be addictive (just like drugs can) and can result in your spending lots of money on it (just like drugs can).
Gib
Crusader
Also, and many years of auditing, and reading Hubbard's lectures & books, his use of rhetoric,
it produces Transference, a dependency on scientology and auditing,
if I can only get in session, says the scientologist to hisself.
http://carolineletkeman.org/propaganda/soulhackers.html
lotus
stubborn rebel sheep!
Exactly!
What I'd like we resolve one day, is the short-term euphoric state (F/N VGIs)
and why does it occur with police polygraph audigint lists :confused2:
It is a fact, but I can't get how and why it does happens.
Udarnik
Gold Meritorious Patron
Are you talking inorganic or organic molecular scaffolding?
Leland
Crusader
Exactly!
What I'd like we resolve one day, is the short-term euphoric state (F/N VGIs)
and why does it occur with police polygraph audigint lists :confused2:
It is a fact, but I can't get how and why it does happens.
My opinion and thoughts on this are that when one "goes into session"....one goes in "knowing" that this is his/her next step to "OT". That he/she is doing a "bridge action."
The idea of OT is so powerful......and one is so convinced that "it " has been figured out.....and all one has to do is "the next action".....and that the "technology" works.....that one is already.....very much in an altered state to some extent, before anything at all happens.
The Rud flying.....it is SO PERSONAL. All occurrences are addressed as to "place the PC" at the center of importance...and "right."
This is a point of the Kult indoctrination .....all Kult members are made "right" ( from a case standpoint ).....and were "done" wrong.
Sure this can make a person feel good....it is a rare event in real life.
Taking it back further.....as one grows up....one does take on a "social" mental structure. One has been educated....and lived....and is a social human being.
People have all kinds of mental storage...and conclusions....and ideas.....and what nots....in their minds.
Then one is read a "list"......sure those list ideas and words....are going to register....on some sort of gadget....why not.
But that these are the "exact" phrases, concepts, occurrences....that "need" to be addressed to "get to the next level".......is fallacious IMO....and actually further stultifies a person...and drives him or her deeper into the Kult mental morass.
Edited: Where as one is "made right" in Session......one is "made wrong" on staff. This is a whip sawing....back and forth.....that further breaks down a person's mental health and identity.
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Gib
Crusader
Yep, it's also called sublime writing,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_(literary)
Hubbard said first and foremost he was a writer.
Doesn't the C-BS here try to do that?
And any other Indie?
still caught up in the sublime.
AnonyMary
Formerly Fooled - Finally Free
Exactly!
What I'd like we resolve one day, is the short-term euphoric state (F/N VGIs)
and why does it occur with police polygraph audigint lists :confused2:
It is a fact, but I can't get how and why it does happens.
I often felt it was akin to a huge sense of relief achieved that something in all that session activity, of listening, looking, actually 'indicated' or made sense. To make all that effort worthwhile.
Veda
Sponsor
Auditing is an English language word.
Amongst synonyms listed by Merriam-Webster are: "Examination, going-over, review, scan, scrutiny, view."
The Latin root word means, "a hearing," or "to hear."
Scientology has adopted the word, "auditing."
Those introduced to auditing by Scientologists, both inside and outside the CofS, are often told the above definitions are descriptive of Scientology auditing.
It's important to recognize that the definition of auditing changes the deeper one descends into Scientology.
It begins, usually, where one is primarily asked, and changes to where one is primarily told.
Auditing which emphasizes listening can, IMO, sometimes be beneficial, and not merely a short term euphoric state.
Genuine relief can result in unburdening buried emotions and pain. It may resemble euphoria in some instances, but its results tend to be stable.
Superficial, and short term euphoric states, on the other hand, are enough to hook the person, who, even though he now feels lousy and the euphoria has passed, seeks (often craves) the next (euphoric) session or "level."
However, the fact remains that the word "auditing," in its most basic form, is benign.
This is important to recognize when encountering Scientology's devious use of the word's multiple definitions.
Amongst synonyms listed by Merriam-Webster are: "Examination, going-over, review, scan, scrutiny, view."
The Latin root word means, "a hearing," or "to hear."
Scientology has adopted the word, "auditing."
Those introduced to auditing by Scientologists, both inside and outside the CofS, are often told the above definitions are descriptive of Scientology auditing.
It's important to recognize that the definition of auditing changes the deeper one descends into Scientology.
It begins, usually, where one is primarily asked, and changes to where one is primarily told.
Auditing which emphasizes listening can, IMO, sometimes be beneficial, and not merely a short term euphoric state.
Genuine relief can result in unburdening buried emotions and pain. It may resemble euphoria in some instances, but its results tend to be stable.
Superficial, and short term euphoric states, on the other hand, are enough to hook the person, who, even though he now feels lousy and the euphoria has passed, seeks (often craves) the next (euphoric) session or "level."
However, the fact remains that the word "auditing," in its most basic form, is benign.
This is important to recognize when encountering Scientology's devious use of the word's multiple definitions.
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HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Exactly!
What I'd like we resolve one day, is the short-term euphoric state (F/N VGIs)
and why does it occur with police polygraph audigint lists :confused2:
It is a fact, but I can't get how and why it does happens.
Okay. What I am about to say is very unpopular in some circles.
It is downright upsetting to people who swear that the tech or some part of it works.
The euphoria (e.g. wins, F/N, exteriorization, OT abilities, Clear, blown out feeling, et al) in Scientology that convinces tech users that it "works" is actually very simple to understand. But it cannot be understood by studying Scientology.
It can only be understood by studying other cults and how they disseminate their "supernatural powers".
If anyone really wanted to go "Clear" of Scientology (lol) all they would have to do is YouTube videos like these until they finally laugh about the obvious fact that they are all hoaxes supported by belief, hope, and a synergistic amount of acting, self-induced trances and/or the power of suggestion under any designation (mesmerism, animal magnetism, hypnosis, et al)
With no exaggeration, I am seriously proposing that anyone who wanted to know the secret of why Scientologists stay in a cult (that defrauds them for decades and yet convinces them to write "Success Stories" about, lol) is hidden in plain sight in the "spiritual states" (not OT, lol) "achieved" by other similar scams & sects.
There are countless books and videos that will help one attain, sooner or later, a DH degree (Doctor of Hoaxology). Here are a few just to get the party started:
[video=youtube;gEDaCIDvj6I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I[/video]
[video=youtube;_Z0_n7tGnK0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0[/video]
[video=youtube;a54iqEr1flQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a54iqEr1flQ[/video]
[video=youtube;_Z0_n7tGnK0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n7tGnK0[/video]
[video=youtube;a54iqEr1flQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a54iqEr1flQ[/video]
Want to try an experiment? Show any of these kind of devastating debunking videos to a Hubbard tech believer and then ask them to explain why Scientology is not the same as that. LOL
Cruel trick. They can't do it.
But if you like tone 40 squirming, you might enjoy watching them try.
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