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6 Years ago today I left Scientology

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
And what a day it was!

I'll spare the details, but I'll never forget walking down the street to the train station, scared out of my mind, wondering if it was possible to escape without someone following me.

I got home that afternoon, sat silent in my home, and just soaked it in.

I felt more free that day that ever before in my 9 years in Scn.

:happydance:
 

Pooks

MERCHANT OF CHAOS
Wow, 6 years!

You are doing great Emma. I'm so happy you are out of the cult
and living your life free of all the insanity.

Big hugs to you.


Patty
 

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
And what a day it was!

I'll spare the details, but I'll never forget walking down the street to the train station, scared out of my mind, wondering if it was possible to escape without someone following me.

I got home that afternoon, sat silent in my home, and just soaked it in.

I felt more free that day that ever before in my 9 years in Scn.

:happydance:

Emster!


It is a wonderful feeling isn't it? Glad you got out and glad you started this message area.

Mick
 

Bea Kiddo

Crusader
Congratulations Emma!!! Yeah - I remember leaving too. Actually, in my case, I got escorted off. (you'll see as I finish my story....), but I took a three day train ride out and it was the most beautiful thing ever.... seeing green trees, sunlight, sunsets, and all.... sigh. So nice. Then taking weeks off without working was nice too... Its a beautiful thing, freedom. Enjoy!!:) :) :)
 

Peter Schilte

Patron with Honors
All I can do is imagine how it is to leave the scary and evil concult. Congratulations with this aniversary!
It is now about 6 years ago that I was first confronted with $cientology, and started to read all I could find on the internet. And believe me (as if you wouldn't :D ), it was unbelievable, appaling, amazing and making me sometimes very angry.
Total freedom is here, in the free world, not in the evil concult! Enjoy it!
 

Alan

Gold Meritorious Patron
Geez! Emma has it been more than 6 years of bitching and moaning I've had to put up with?

:) :) :) :)

Alan
 

jodie

Patron with Honors
Congratulations!!!!!!

You have done really well, and got out of what could have really damaged your soul/psyche in a really permanent way. (I read what you told me to read - you were lucky!)

You're doing fantastically, and really making a wonderful contribution. Be thankful the damage was not so great that you could never again be yourself in public. Many exes can also be thankful for this, because now you are here for them. You're a star!

Thanks for all you do, and the wonderful, wonderful person you are. :)

Love,

- jodie
 

Nec_V20

Patron Meritorious
Jodie,

You have done really well, and got out of what could have really damaged your soul/psyche in a really permanent way.

I am not wanting to have a go at Emma with this, but I think you and others, like MissDorfl, are being too short sighted with your "hip-hip-hoorah".

Because someone is "out" does not mean that the influence of their having been "in" has ended.

I and MissDorfl (who I do not claim to speak for) are first generation after 1933-45 German posters. We still get blamed for it when we post as Germans, although in my case (having been born in 1959) that was nearly a decade and a half in my own past. My and her parents were "in" and although our "outness" cannot be disputed, we are still condemned by an implied "birthright".

Bill Maher on Friday said, "Not even the mob goes after your family" in comparing the treasonous activities of Bush and Cheney with regard to Valarie Plame. But take a look at the smoke-screens being put up.

The thing is that MissDorfl and myself are a ZEROith generation of critics with regard to Scientology because based on our anamnesis neither she nor I would ever be stupid enough ever again to be sucked into such an heinous group which could ever consider "Dispose of quietly and without sorrow" in the first place.

Because of the very close conjunction of "Dispose of quietly and without sorrow" and the German (Nazi) concept of "Unwertes Leben" which was applied to Sinti&Roma, Homosexuals, Socialists, mentally and physically handicapped and Jews; I could never allow something such as Scientology to remain either unchallenged or unrepudiated.

Emma is in a first generation of critics with regard to Scientology - as an ex she also has to ask herself long and hard why she went along for as long as she did.

As a German no person gives me the easy option of saying, "Oh, it was them", because "them" were my parent and grandparents and relatives. I've had this millstone around my neck for nearly 50 years now. It is a millstone that is very often brought up when I criticise as a German and the comment is, "Well what about you and the Nazi's?"
 
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Nec_V20

Patron Meritorious
Alan,

that is the good thing about history. Over time the truth tends to come out.

Americans laid the groundwork for Hitler by supplying him with regard to the fantasy of Eugenics*, the USA also actively advocated and abetted the euthanasia of Eugenics by supplying the means in the form of Hollerith** tabulators by the "solutions company" IBM.

The sub notes following cannot mitigate my shame of being a German. 1933-45 is my shame as a German but history has shed another light.

*Eventually, America’s eugenic movement spread to Germany as well, where it caught the fascination of Adolf Hitler and the Nazi movement. Under Hitler, eugenics careened beyond any American eugenicist’s dream. National Socialism transduced America’s quest for a “superior Nordic race” into Hitler’s drive for an “Aryan master race.” The Nazis were fond of saying “National Socialism is nothing but applied biology,” and in 1934 the Richmond Times-Dispatch quoted a prominent American eugenicist as saying, “The Germans are beating us at our own game.”

Nazi eugenics quickly outpaced American eugenics in both velocity and ferocity. In the 1930s, Germany assumed the lead in the international movement. Hitler’s eugenics was backed by brutal decrees, custom-designed IBM data processing machines, eugenical courts, mass sterilization mills, concentration camps, and virulent biological anti-Semitism—all of which enjoyed the open approval of leading American eugenicists and their institutions. The cheering quieted, but only reluctantly, when the United States entered the war in December of 1941. Then, out of sight of the world, Germany’s eugenic warriors operated extermination centers. Eventually, Germany’s eugenic madness led to the Holocaust, the destruction of the Gypsies, the rape of Poland and the decimation of all Europe.

Because the German and American wings collaborated so closely, the German archives clearly traced the development of German race hygiene as it emulated the American program. More importantly, because the American and German movements functioned as a binary, their leaders bragged to one another and exchanged information constantly. Therefore I learned much about America’s record by examining Reich-era files. For instance, although the number of individuals sterilized in Vermont has eluded researchers in that state, the information is readily available in the files of Nazi organizations. Moreover, obscure Nazi medical literature reveals the Nazis’ understanding of their American partners. Probing the prodigious files of Nazi eugenics took my project to the Bundesarchiv in Berlin and Koblenz, the Max Planck Institute in Berlin, Heidelberg University and many other repositories in Germany.

Nor was America’s crusade a mere domestic crime. Using the power of money, prestige and international academic exchanges, American eugenicists exported their philosophy to nations throughout the world, including Germany. Decades after a eugenics campaign of mass sterilization and involuntary incarceration of “defectives” was institutionalized in the United States, the American effort to create a super Nordic race came to the attention of Adolf Hitler.

Those declared unfit by Virginia did not know it, but they were connected to a global effort of money, manipulation and pseudoscience that stretched from rural America right into the sterilization wards, euthanasia vans and concentration camps of the Third Reich. Prior to World War II, the Nazis practiced eugenics with the open approval of America’s eugenic crusaders. As Joseph DeJarnette, superintendent of Virginia’s Western State Hospital, complained in 1934, “Hitler is beating us at our own game.”

Eventually, out of sight of the world, in Buchenwald and Auschwitz, eugenic doctors like Josef Mengele would carry on the research begun just years earlier with American financial support, including grants from the Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Institution. Only after the secrets of Nazi eugenics horrified the world, only after Nuremberg declared compulsory sterilization a crime against humanity, did American eugenics recede, adopt an enlightened view and then resurface as “genetics” and “human engineering.” Even still, involuntary sterilization continued for decades as policy and practice in America.


Edwin Black, War against the Weak http://www.waragainsttheweak.com/chapter1.php

**Only after Jews were identified -- a massive and complex task that Hitler wanted done immediately -- could they be targeted for efficient asset confiscation, ghettoization, deportation, enslaved labor, and, ultimately, annihilation. It was a cross-tabulation and organizational challenge so monumental, it called for a computer. Of course, in the 1930s no computer existed.

But IBM's Hollerith punch card technology did exist. Aided by the company's custom-designed and constantly updated Hollerith systems, Hitler was able to automate his persecution of the Jews. Historians have always been amazed at the speed and accuracy with which the Nazis were able to identify and locate European Jewry. Until now, the pieces of this puzzle have never been fully assembled. The fact is, IBM technology was used to organize nearly everything in Germany and then Nazi Europe, from the identification of the Jews in censuses, registrations, and ancestral tracing programs to the running of railroads and organizing of concentration camp slave labor.


Edwin Black, IBM and the Holocaust http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/chapter1.php
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
NEC
I am not wanting to have a go at Emma with this, but I think you and others, like MissDorfl, are being too short sighted with your "hip-hip-hoorah".

Because someone is "out" does not mean that the influence of their having been "in" has ended.

BB
And yet you have friendships with those who are still in, albeit in the FZ.
I am one, lucky me. :)

Its a pan determined act on your part. :)

NEC
Because of the very close conjunction of "Dispose of quietly and without sorrow" and the German (Nazi) concept of "Unwertes Leben" which was applied to Sinti&Roma, Homosexuals, Socialists, mentally and physically handicapped and Jews; I could never allow something such as Scientology to remain either unchallenged or unrepudiated.
BB
I would consider this statement by Hubbard a mistake. He was trying to make a point and fucked up broadly. That was back in 1952 or thereabouts.

You ever made a mistake?

It is true that those in COS often practice this idea. Those who follow the spirit of scientology do not. Why do you think we are all leaving COS?

Homosexuals, Socialists, mentally and physically handicapped and Jews
can be found in the Freezone.

Which of these categories do you think I Ifall in? :)
 

Terril park

Sponsor
Forgot Roma. :( Merely wish fullfillment. The dark haired and eyed
dancers, and the musicians. Been following their assorted kin and even interacting.

Anyone want some URLs? ( not of me of course! )
 

Nec_V20

Patron Meritorious
Terril,

And yet you have friendships with those who are still in, albeit in the FZ.
I am one, lucky me.

Or rather unlucky you?

We met through adversary and the chips have fallen as the they may. With regard to Scientology I am still a critic and you are still a Scientologist.

So was our meeting a waste of time or an interesting exchange? For me it was as enlightening as it was elucidating. It was by no way however a waste of my time, or MissDorfl's.

Its a pan determined act on your part.

I have neither thespian ambitions nor aspirations.

If our meetings have seemed like an act then either I am the better thespian or you are the lesser judge of the situation or character.

I am sorry you feel that way.

You ever made a mistake?

Of the many I cannot recount, within the realms where a tally was kept (when I was Senior German Engineer for Enterprise Tech-Support) out of 16,000 to 17,000 of enterprise cases I dealt with I failed to resolve 223. That would be 98.60% to 98.68% success rate. I remember few of the 98% successes but I can handshake every one of my 223 failures.

Homosexuals, Socialists, mentally and physically handicapped and Jews can be found in the Freezone.

Which of these categories do you think I fall in?

A friend. What other category should I subsume you under?
 
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Terril park

Sponsor
NEC
Or rather unlucky you?

We met through adversary and the chips have fallen as the they may. With regard to Scientology I am still a critic and you are still a Scientologist.

So was our meeting a waste of time or an interesting exchange? For me it was as enlightening as it was elucidating. It was by no way however a waste of my time, or MissDorfl's
BB
We are friends. Thats a positive. :)

NEC
Quote:
Its a pan determined act on your part.
I have neither thespian ambitions nor aspirations.

If our meetings have seemed like an act then either I am the better thespian or you are the lesser judge of the situation or character.

I am sorry you feel that way.

BB
Ah! Word clearing time.

Was a compliment. :) Should have stated it without scientology
terminology.

Next time we meet I could bring my tech dictionary as its a difficult concept that is a scientology specialised definition. Or several.

Here we go with Def 1:- ( edited)

" A further definition, also a precision definition, is: the willingness to start change and stop two or more forces, whether or not opposed, and this could be interpreted as two or more individuals, two or more groups, ....
whether of not opposed. This means that one would not nessessarily fight,
he would not nessessarily choose sides. "

Niether Pan nor Pan-determined is in my two vol big english dictionary. But
I think with these concepts as you do with your techie ones.

Its perhaps most easily stated as an ability to look at both sides of a question.
 
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