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A Conversation with an OT

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Udarnik, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    Just to set the record straight on this thread, the rumor that Tubs was related to Elbert Hubbard is false. It probably comes from the Co$, and may have been started by Tubs himself.

    Several points.

    First, Tubs's father was born a Wilson and was adopted as a Hubbard. No blood or genetic relation, there.

    Second, Tubs's adoptive grandparents were named James W. Hubbard and Philena Jane Potter, who were farmers in Iowa, while Elbert was born in Bloomington, IL, and his parents were named Silas Hubbard and Juliana Frances Read.

    I've seen the rumor that Elron was related to Elbert multiple places on the net, including on the webpage of the artist's community Elbert founded.

    It's just not true.

    Elron only wished he could write half as well as Elbert.
  2. Thanks, Udarnkki, I was gonna say it but you beat me to it! :)

    Inflated and false history about Ron's background and life experiences abound!

    It's good to seize a teachable moment and tell the truth about Ron, his life and Scientology whenever and wherever we can. :thumbsup:

    Thank you! :happydance:
  3. Knows

    Knows Gold Meritorious Patron

    Tubs (love that name) plagerized and used "A Message to Garcia" written by Elbert Hubbard in his ETHICS book.

    Tubs also stole information from Napolean Hill and sprinkled it in his Oat Tea tech along with his satanic rituals - giving your children to the Sea Org so they can be human sacrifices so MONEY can be obtained and worshiped.

    Captain David Miscavige - like Tubs - loves his money and his admiration - two intoxicating traps for a THEETAN - money and power and the psycho will destroy everyone to obtain and keep it going!

    Napolean Hill- gave Elbert Hubbard a big ack for being a writer.
  4. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Thanks for that.

    I have no doubt that there were Sea Org members dutifully planting many such glamorous associations for the illustrious Dr. Hubbard, to bolster his image.

    Example: A few years ago I remember stopping on the section of Hubbard's filmed interview (late 60's) when he was asked about how he acquired the "fortune" that he claimed he had funded Dianetics/Scientology with. He adroitly makes reference to the vast number of movies that he had written.

    When pinned down, Hubbard begins involuntarily exhibiting his traditional "tells" by twitching, gulping and sniffing as he claims that to have loaned Scientology $13,000,000.

    (Take a look at 4:20 until 6:50):


    INTERVIEWER: The only problem I have with that sum is that haven't told me where the money does come come from.

    HUBBARD: "Well there were very, very large sums of money I made when I was very young. Fifteen million published words and a great many successful movies don't make nothing."

    That didn't sound right, so I did a little searching for the "great many successful movies" that Hubbard claimed to have written.

    Hubbard was credited with exactly NO screenplays or movies. He did get a "story by" (not scriptwriter) credit on one of the 15 short episodes of a serial called "The Secret of Treasure Island" (1938). The idea for Hubbard's installment was "...based on Robert Louis Stevenson's novel "Treasure Island". But that didn't stop Hubbard from falsely claiming credit for his material, promoting that the source was from one of his (unproduced) screenplays.

    Further muddying the water, Hubbard conveniently left out the fact that his segment of that serial was not a feature film, but instead a short "cliffhanger" piece that ran before the movie people actually paid to see.

    And that is the "great many successful movies" that Hubbard got his $13,000,000 from. A pilfered "story by credit" that doesn't properly attribute the original author (Stevenson).

    Reviewing: Hubbard based a short story on Stevenson's book. Others wrote the screenplay for the short segment. Yet he claims he made a fortune from it. Based on the studio system that was in full gear in the 1930s, Hubbard might have made a few hundred dollars from it. Even if he was paid a "residual" for each of the 15 short vignettes (e.g. At an optimistic rate of $200 per episode, which would have been a fortune in 1938 dollars--$3,200--at a time when the yearly average salary was only $ 1,700) that might have been a grand total of $3000.

    Ron the serial movie writer or Ron the serial liar? Ron, the movie mogul, must really hate the Internet! lol
  5. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

  6. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    Yeah, I also noticed on IMDB that Hubbard's PR people didn't include his credit for starring in the blockbuster movie "The Shrinking World of L. Ron Hubbard". LOL
  7. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    Perhaps Hubbard was related to Cora Hubbard born in 1877 in Missouri (which has a border with Nebraska).

    I found her under a page titled:
    World's most notorious female bank robbers

    Elron seems to have much more in common with Cora than he does Elbert. :whistling:
  8. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    When Hubbard spoke glowingly about how " OT creates new realities", I guess we now know how they do that.

    Implanted and dramatizing Wogs reactively call it lying.
  9. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Hi Toady,

    This was a wonderful, thoughtful post. Thanks. :thumbsup:

    You brought up connections after death. That's a subject most regular folk hesitate to discuss, but on the other hand, Scientologists seem incapable of shutting up about it.

    I'm a bit hesitant myself, but I'll have a go.

    I don't altogether agree with you, but this is just personal opinion, k? The only reason I'm even writing this is because I've seen some people go way too far with the connection thing after a loss. Too far. So far that they stopped living their own lives altogether. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but if you think about a man or woman who lost their spouse or child, you know how deeply others can experience grief and loss for a loved one. A person may go very far - desperately far - with delusions and fortune tellers and Ouija Boards - to try to have that person back in their life.

    IMHO, the connection changes dramatically when a person dies. It's rare. It's sporadic. It's undependable and not easily sensed. It's just not the same as when the person was there to speak and hug in person. IMHO, that connection is not meant to be the same. The Aborigine may have been wise to make no mention or representation of the dead after they are gone.

    We remember a person's personality. We can even remember their personas well enough to know what Dad or Mom or Joe would probably say to us at any given point if they were still with us. Those suffering from losses often claim to have long conversations with the dead.

    It's not healthy. I know a woman who does nothing at all but this. And drink. She doesn't eat or shower, keeps memorabilia all around her and couldn't give a stuff about even getting out of her chair. All she talks about is her dead loved ones and their visits to her. It's very sad. :Bigcry:

    Many Christians have spoken of a "period of rest" before the loved one makes contact. I believe there is some truth to that.

    I also believe it is likely that a loved one may make some sort of genuine contact on a few rare occasions.

    More than that isn't healthy for anyone - not for the departed, and not for the survivors. Focusing regularly on what or whom one has lost just locks the survivor in the past and keeps him from making the most of what is left of his life.

    The departed would not want to do that to a loved one.

    I agree there is always a connection. I just don't believe it is the communication sort that we are accustomed to using in life. It's different.
  10. DeeAnna

    DeeAnna Patron Meritorious

    I've been waiting for almost five years now to hear from my dear departed husband. Not a peep so far.
    (And believe me, that's not like him!)
  11. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    :biggrin: (lol on the "that's not like him")

    DeeAnna, Have you seriously been waiting to hear from him?
  12. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Didn't say it was genetic. Was by adoption, from what I've read. (non CofS sources)
  13. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    well, they were not related biologically or by adoption.. Either way would not matter anyway, so I don't understand your point? Are you saying it was nurture and not nature that made him so awful?
  14. Queenmab321

    Queenmab321 Patron Meritorious

    A lovely movie that takes this sort of grief for its theme is Truly, Madly, Deeply starring Alan Rickman and Juliet Stephenson. It was released in 1990.
  15. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    The major difficulty in having a conversation with an OT is there are no OTs so therefore any such conversation would be, at best, highly delusional by the person who imagined they were having such a conversation.

    Discussing the horsepower of a moonbeam would be more productive.
  16. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Add to that, even if hypothetically there was such a thing as an "OT", there still could not be a CONVERSATION with one.

    OTs don't converse, they simply "get in 2-way-com" so they can make the second step (handling) go right to a product.

    OTs can't have conversations because that requires a topic rather than a "com particle" and another person instead of a "terminal".
  17. Leon-2

    Leon-2 Patron Meritorious

  18. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Well, amost anything in excess can be unhealthy. I enjoy a glass a wine, but, I know others who are alcoholic.

    Same for sex - it is great yet some are so into it their life is ruined.
    And so on down the line with most things that there is a point that passes most any understanding of good and has the capacity to become destructive.

    So, yes an obsession with communication with those who have departed this plane could very well be destructive for the one obsessed with it.

    I don't know anything about what would or would not be about anything for those on another plane in terms of good or destructive for them.

    The only thing I could possiblyaddress is my own personal experiences in those rare instances when I've been aware I felt I was getting communication from someone who had passed over to the other side. More out of the blue than something I "yearned" from that person.

    You mentioned knowing a person well enough to pretty much know what ther communication would be to someone they know well. That has not been my expience. Seems to me the rare communication I get is unrelated to anyhting I'm doing or want to do to - more likely - is from somebody I didn't know very well IRL and has to do about somebodyelse that I'm also not that close with. It does seem that the people I know, love, were close to, etc will sort of announce they left this physical plane - and I may or may not know at that moment just who passed. May or may not ever hear from them again.

    I'd like to think I remain open to hear from people from this or any plane. And, that said, like many people, as I've gotten older I realized my Grandfather was a wealth of life knowledge and so was my Father - there were times in my life I wished I had asked them some questions regarding things coming up in my life - but - I didn't. THAT time has passed. Not much I can do about water under the bridge.

    I'll always believe people can communicate should they desire it and the person they desire communication with also desire it, too - and both be available for it.

    I think it all has to do with vibration...............and energy.

    PS : It has been a couple of decades since I called myself a scientologist. I've tried to drop the bad habits I acquired while doing that lifestyle, but, there are things that were of interest to me before & after that which that group seemed also interested communication
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
  19. dbnope444

    dbnope444 New Member

    I was told a very similar tale about the books being wrong before and that they had been restored. When I said I was not in agreement with the source of trouble on the OT levels as being what the material states it to have been I was told that I probably had never gone clear and that the technology then was wrong but since the books were now "fixed" I should come back and redo my clearing materials. Of course at my expense. I told the person that "I had found the biggest problem with Scientology OTs in my opinion was that they took no responsibility for any of earth's or their own case rather always had another entity to shift blame to be it a bt or cluster or what have you it was never the actual OT owning anything." Of course my OT levels were at once then invalidated as out-tech and I should come in and get handled but "its gonna cost you" . . . well this was not said directly but none of the actual people who were trying to bring me back ever said "since the tech was out then come on in and the repairs will be on us." Many of the promises I was told that I would attain on the OT levels were never even approached until I actually quit addressing entities as if they were not my own creation. Once I did this I began having successes which were more true to what I expected than I ever got in the church. Of course some of the lofty promises they made about the OT Levels I can only hope to some day attain . . . maybe in generations to come but certainly not while living here among such a race as man is now.
  20. Yeah but how do they explain away the lectures being wrong? Were the wrong words coming out of Hubbard's mouth before they fixed them?