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A Thumb Nail Sketch of L Ron Hubbard

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by lkwdblds, Jul 26, 2010.

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  1. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    There is an S extra Outlines He did acknowledge to have taken from philosophy and philosophy. At least in the Original Dianetics alsoo from Freud.

    I first found the Photo hilarious too, than I thought he placed it there deliberatly as a must read or an acknowledgedment back in the old days?

    I suspect he has read Maslow too
  2. smartone

    smartone My Own Boss

    Yes, this really makes sense to me. LRH used to have this annoying habit in his lectures of beating about the bush/going around the houses with these examples, he must have gotten from those books, which went on and (moan) on. I always wanted him to get to the point MUCH quicker and found his lectures very frustrating in his long drawn-out style.
  3. fisherman

    fisherman Patron with Honors


    That's no mere "acknowledgement!" That copy of "Outline of Philosophy" sits on top of an edited manuscript and is chock full of bookmarks. Hubbard's using it as a reference work.

    What's funny is that someone with a grounding in philosophy would already be conversant in virtually everything Durant covers. It's unusual and unlikely that a solid student in philosophy would choose "Outline of Philosophy" as a primary source. It doesn't compliment Mr. Hubbard's self-proclaimed philosophic sagacity that he's bookmarked it so heavily.

    I think this is a very revealing photograph and... hilarious!

  4. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    Okay Yes but the tittle reads OUTLINES

  5. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    For exactly the same reasons I reach the opposite conclusion, moreover it is precisely what I would expect of Hubbard.

    Hubbard's metier was popular address aimed at persons of precisely the same literacy level as "The Outlines of Philosophy" was aimed. Durant did a superlative job of addressing questions of philosophy in a style which was assimilable by persons of even modest educational accomplishment.

    One thing that has always struck me since I was literally a child was how so many people of my parent's generation, pre-WWII, had a sound grasp of broad fundamentals despite modest intelligence or lack of higher education. They were a generation brought up on educators such as Durant who excelled at clear writing and the communication of an historical perspective. The reverse phenomena has been far more evident to me since the '60s onward, i.e. excessively "focused" or "technical" education leading to little actual understanding of issues of broader scope.

    This photo is graphic evidence that Hubbard knew his market's core and prepared his material beforehand accordingly. He may have delved in a shallow fashion, but shallow is sufficient to an introductory purpose. It's always up to the individual to delve more deeply for himself.

    Mark A. Baker
  6. fisherman

    fisherman Patron with Honors


    I couldn't agree more wholeheartedly that:

    This is well put, but I'm just not persuaded that Hubbard was among this admirable group. Please believe that I'm not a "degree snob." As I mentioned earlier, I really admire Sam Gompers (the union leader) who taught himself the classics while working in a cigar factory. Also, Eric Hoffer, the longshoreman who wrote "True Believer."

    These men had far less sophisticated audiences than Hubbard and I don't believe either would have needed Durant's book to make a "popular" reference to anyone discussed in that work.

    Keep in mind that it is Hubbard who makes a "big deal" out of constant references to "great thinkers." I'm not sure a truly educated man like Hoffer would bother to "name-drop" in this fashion. It's so, "freshman year philosophy 101" chatter.

    I'm sure you're correct that Hubbard's "metier" was speaking to "the same literacy level" and it seems he was captivating. Here's why I can't share your assessment:

    1. Hubbard claimed himself an intellect, equal or superior to Kant, Aristotle, Plato, Hume, etc. Simultaneously, Hubbard called himself "the great organizer;" declaring he had synthesized history's highest thoughts and ideals.

    Why would Hubbard, a man of such formidable intellectual capacity, a self-confessed "great popularizer," and master at communicating with the "common man" -- rely so heavily on a lesser popularizer, lesser communicator, and lesser intellect, named Will Durant? That doesn't make sense to me.

    2. I've read every Hubbard reference to traditional philosophy that I can find. So far, I've haven't found ONE that was accurate. I don't mean that I disagreed with Hubbard. I mean I haven't found a reference that was historically or textually accurate.

    If Hubbard used Durant for reference, he didn't even do that with accuracy.

    My belief is that Hubbard was far too wrapped up in his own thinking to even give cursory attention to the "great thinkers" he claimed to understand "inside out."

    It's not my contention that Hubbard wasn't "smart" -- it's my contention that Hubbard was NOT "the great organizer" because he had virtually no familiarity with the "great thoughts" he claimed to have organized and only the slimmest knowledge of the "great thinkers" he listed as key influences.

    Lastly, I certainly might be mistaken. But I'll be very surprised, if someone can show me even two sentences where Hubbard accurately and coherently references classical philosophy or thought (even in the most proletarian terms).


    P.S. AnonCat, sorry I missed your spelling correction. The large red S threw me off. I thought you were being enigmatic. "Outlines of Philosophy" is the correct title. Sorry! :duh:
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  7. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    I had not checked in for a while. nice to see the recent activity

    I hadn't visited the thread lately. Nice to see all this good posting going on. I have nothing to add to you guys fine posting at this time. Carry on!
  8. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'd say this thumbnail sketch has grown to the size of a big toenail.
  9. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Actually I agree with you, Fish. My point was that he used materials like Durant because they were the "right gradient" for his intended audience. I don't mean to suggest that he was at a much higher comprehension level than his audience at all. Certainly not to any significant degree. He was just quite masterful at communicating to that audience and provided himself with materials appropriate to that purpose.

    From what I have read of Hubbard's material, which is quite a bit over the years, he does seem to have had the usual benefits of that pre-war generation's basic education. Where he "comes a cropper" is in the comprehension of subjects which require a more advanced measure of education than was common either before the war or for years after.

    For instance his comments on math & science are generally quite ludicrous and appeal only to similarly ill-informed individuals. His claims for a "scientific" basis for the subject of scientology are founded on the thinnest of thin air and arise both from his need to impress others as well as his own vague understanding of scientific & logical rigor.

    Those however are more technical subjects which require more advanced education than at that time was common for full comprehesion. Accordingly these were not widely understood by Hubbard's target audience of that time period either, with the result that they could be easily misled about such claims.

    Mark A. Baker
    p.s. I believe Hubbard does make reference to "Know Thyself" (the original being "gnothi seauton") at one point, so all we need is one more and you lose on your expectation. ;-)
  10. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    And because life is a joke, it is only appropriate that I point out that at least in one geographical area, in one half of a decade (the 70s), the students and preclears of the Menlo Park and Palo Alto, CA. centers contained professors and doctors galore, a man who had walked on the moon, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, and many mental health workers, in addition a solid percentage of a professional football team. The lower level tech worked in the hands of the auditors of those centers (later they were called missions).
  11. fisherman

    fisherman Patron with Honors


    Very well put!

    OK, I think I follow you. You're suggesting that one reason Hubbard chose Durant (rather than something more esoteric) is that Durant's work was already predigested to a suitable "gradient" for the intended audience?

    That's an important way to look at it! I hadn't considered that slant and it's very sage. If this is what you meant I do agree and it's an excellent point.

    Yes and you draw the point better than I. Your summary is probably very accurate. I suspect Hubbard was reasonably well schooled, despite himself. And, you raise a cogent issue. If Hubbard had been raised in the 1970's would he have gotten as far, educationally? In the 2000's would he have been classified as needing special help?

    It's interesting to pull at these ideas to better understand the historical framework. Personally, I don't look at these historical features as a means to condemn the man. Hubbard put himself on the "evil" side of the historical ledger with documented actions like the chain locker incident and over-boarding. The context in which Hubbard would "smash his name into history" was well established in his lifetime.

    Thanks for your enlightening post. My daughters need lunch, so I'll have to follow-up OC's thoughts a little later.

    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  12. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    No "joke" there, CO. All of those you mention, among others unreferenced, had the necessary wherewithal to see beyond Hubbard's "patent medicine" & "populist" approach to marketing. The were able to appreciate the possibilities of real value to be had from a simplified tech of mental/spiritual science. It seems to me that individuals like those you reference understood the material Hubbard presented better than he did. They became the real leadership of scientology, developing tech, centers, and helping people to grow through the application of valuable tech.

    Ergo, any "joke" was on LRH.

    Mark A. Baker
  13. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron


  14. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Addendum: sadly, this may well have had much to do with the bitterness & vindictiveness which he demonstrated towards those whose clear excellence & obvious leadership were taken by him as challenges to his leadership of the church. Another instance of a "missed withhold".

    Mark A. Baker
  15. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    John McMaster
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2010
  16. fisherman

    fisherman Patron with Honors

    Ol' Face,

    I'm honored you've granted me "misfit status, isn't that an ESMB OT level? :)

    Funny, sad, and true. "Papa" became tangled in the unrealistic "Himingway" ethos he himself created. That quixotic ideal seemed to transform "Papa" into a macho charicature of his own writing. And, tragically, to drink, madness, and suicide.

    Is there a parallel to Mr. Hubbard? Hubbard's grandiose promotion of his own virility (gliders, exploration, naval combat, yachts, author of adventure stories, etc.) seem to echo a "Himingway" strain. Was obsessional machismo one Hubbard's conflicts? An interesting question to which you may have insight!

    The strongest men (and women) that I've known are people who could understand and cope with the truth of what life has handed them and do so with equinimity. It's an epitome that many here have achieved, on a level I still find astonishing. I see that quintessential truthfulness (a devotion to honesty without a payoff) evidenced on ESMB and also among many devoted Anons. It's an intoxicating draught of fresh air that has drawn many outsiders like myself.

    So, Mr. Face, after you climb down from the metaphysical gaff, I hope you'll return and and set us a "spanker" of reality!

    Last edited: Aug 7, 2010
  17. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    This is very good and when I get a little farther along in my "What and Why" series I think I can shed a little light on this. Hemingway was more “honest” than El Ron…El Ron was, in some ways, a wannabe. I think Hemingway was hyper-sensitive emotionally. El Ron was a chicken-shit coward. Cowards are liars…always.

    YES!! Good stuff, Fisherman!:yes::yes::yes:

    Spoken like a true misfit.:happydance:

    I’ve posted “What and Why” part 3 here and on the Apollo thread.

    I look forward to any comments you may have. Your “take” on things has been enlightening to me and I am enjoying the sharing of thought processes.

    With that said, I’ll be hoistin’ the “What and Why” mizzen mast mainsail.:coolwink:

    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  18. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    What I bought into and Why, Part 3

    "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.” Albert Einstein

    “At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and you know what you want.” Lao-tsu

    When I was in 8th Grade and a Frosh in High School my older brother was living at home and commuting to college. His Major was Sociology and, after two years there, he moved away, got married and eventually earned a Masters in Sociology. The impact of these two years was huge for me. The tiny room that we shared was filled with books that I probably never would have come across in the rural small-town library I had been “haunting” for years. Books, for me, were my own personal “transporter” and “Time Machine” and, because of them, I could travel all over the world and centuries into the past and future.

    During the ‘50’s there was TV show called, “I Lead 3 Lives” about a guy that was double agent for the FBI. Privately, that show was very “relative” to me as I was, more and more, leading 3 lives. One life was that of a “book worm”. By the time I was in 8th Grade my reading level, speed and comprehension tested in the 99th percentile. I read what I wanted to read at every opportunity. I would follow “lines of inquiry” in numerous subjects and the “Why’s” and “What’s” I delineated in my earlier post. Libraries were my “hollowed ground”, my “cathedral of worship”. When I was in a library, all the volumes on the shelves “spoke” to me…the feeling of “Life” and “Thought” from the books on the shelves was palpable. My personal Library has over 1,500 hardback “friends”. Although I am not able to read well or much anymore, it’s very comforting to have them around…they still “speak” to me.

    Another life I was leading was that of a somewhat daredevil, mischief maker and partaker, hard-hitting jock and honors student. In many ways, I was a typical young boy…full of energy and lacking good sense. I was equally at home with, and accepted by, the “smart kids” and the “tough guys”. I rarely discussed my “library/inquiry” life with anyone…I just didn’t feel comfortable doing that…I just wanted to get along with everyone and was interested in their life and what went on in the world of others. Academically I was among "smart kids" of my class and athletically I was a pretty darn good all-around team sports player.

    My 3rd life was that of the “Bad Son” that was under Lucifer’s spell and headed for Hell unless he "came to Jesus”. I did everything I could to spend as little of time as possible at that house. My parents hated each other and fought constantly. Sometimes I was their “weapon” of choice…”You’re the reason Face is turning out so bad, it’s all your fault,” etc. The “solution” that my parents had for my “evil” ways was to try and shove as much of their “Jesus” down my throat as they could, ridicule and carp at me continuously, slap my face regularly and, off and on, whip me, bare butt, with a razor stropper. The efficaciousness of their methodology served only to make me more determined than ever to never “give in", to stand my ground.

    My brother’s college books were fascinating…everything from “Catcher in the Rye” to “Coming of Age in Samoa” to “The Status Seekers". Two of his books, one from his Astronomy class “The Creation of the Universe”, and one from his Comparative Religions class “The Tao Te Ching”, entranced me…befuddled me. Over the years of my “illicit” late night reading sessions I occasionally would have a feeling of “peace, uplifting 'elsewhereness' and wonderment” and I would slip outside the house and lay in the grass, gazing up into the stars, searching the Universe for answers to questions only “sensed” and not yet formulated in my child’s mind. I read the “Tao” and “Creation” several times and found many of the ideas and thoughts of Lao and Einstein to be amazingly in concert; I also knew I didn’t fully fathom the depth and breadth of what I was reading and spent many a night, looking out into the vastness of infinity, wanting so much to understand “It” all.

    During the summer between 8th and 9th grade I made my “Declaration of Independence”. I was not going to be baptized when I was 14; I was not going to attend Church anymore; The next time a hand was laid on me, I was going to fight back and if that resulted in my being sent to County Juvenile Hall, so be it. My Declaration resulted in a form of “shunning”. For my daily chores I would get my 3 squares a day, a roof over my head and medical care if I got sick…anything else like my athletic equipment and insurance, clothes, etc. I would have to pay for myself. In short, I was on my own. It was sink or swim time and I took to the waters of freedom like a duck. It was one of the best things that ever happened to me and I wouldn’t trade those days—or any of my days for that matter—for anything.

    I started doing odd jobs for neighbors and saved up enough money to buy one of those new 10 Speed bicycles. I was a good worker and was offered a job by the local butcher, cleaning up the shop several times a week after school and all day Saturday and Sunday. By the time I was 16 I could cut up a chicken in seconds, break down a side beef or hog, cut all the steaks and roasts, grind the sausage and hamburger and put together all the trays for the display cases on my own. I could run a cash register (before bar coding and automatic change machines) and handle customers with confidence and skill. I bought cool, nice threads for school and eventually had my own, pretty cool for High School, car.

    I found High School to be very boring and very exciting. Most of my classes were with the same 25-30 students…the advanced College Prep crowd. I loved the sports, extra-curricular activities, student government and sang Bass in the Advanced/Madrigal Choir. I bought a Spanish guitar and got passably good on it. I did the bare minimum to get A’s & B’s but my main focus was my own personal reading, work, activities and athletics (football, basketball, baseball). The sports, activities and work not only kept me from getting in the trouble I was capable of and would have, they gave me confidence, self esteem and the certainty that I could fend for myself in this world. I was learning that, in the "outside" world, I wasn't such a "bad" person afterall.

    And, I also learned that I really loved being with people, enjoyed talking with all types of people, working with people, helping people, being part of a team, doing something worthwhile and doing it well. I learned that there was a bigger world out there other than the “little world” of hypocritical Christianity and that was the world I wanted to live in, and I had my plan; get through High School, prepare to walk away and out into the world the day after graduation and somehow, someway go to college. I was going to go out into that bigger world and I was not going to ever look back. I had learned that I was not destined to be a super star but that I was a very good team player.

    My quest was to find my place in this world…to find my “team”…and to find the answers to the questions I still didn’t even know how to articulate.

    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
  19. Stat

    Stat Gold Meritorious Patron

    "The strongest men (and women) that I've known are people who could understand and cope with the truth of what life has handed them and do so with equinimity. It's an epitome that many here have achieved, on a level I still find astonishing." - Fisherman

    Just as a side not, it indicates to me somehow.
  20. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Fisherman and Face - What a pair to draw to!

    How delightful to see two of my favorite posters dialoguing heavily on this thread. Face and Fisherman. Just sit back an read and gain new incites. THere's no need to chime in and add anything to their dialogue, they are saying it all. Somethimes, one wishes that we all could just meet up in person, relax and start spinning are yarns and incites.