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Discussion in 'Scientology-related Videos' started by AnonKat, Apr 25, 2011.

  1. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    David, had other methods been used doubtless different results would have occurred. Nonetheless, at the time there were not readily available to society the great variety of mental/spiritual practices which are prevalent now. Times have change considerably in the last 60 years. Now there are effective alternatives, many of these influenced by the achievements of early scientologists. Your work has been a part of that, even where it is not fully credited.

    Many received a great deal of personal benefit from using the tech as it was, and the assistance that you provided. Much of that benefit remains. Not all was correct with the subject, but it contained many ideas which were simple to use, yet could powerfully aid an individual in transforming his life for the better. Much benefit was attained, and it has been attained by thousands of individuals.

    Due to Hubbard's personal flaws and the institutions he created in order to facilitate his control, many have been hurt through their unwarranted trust of Hubbard & the practices he ordered. That is the great tragedy lying behind the man & the subject. How much more could have been achieved without the encumbrance of Hubbard's need for absolute control.

    You & Julie were among those who worked hardest at accomplishing what was helpful and warding off what was harmful. Many of the others with whom you were associated were outstanding individuals who, like yourselves, contributed greatly to the well being of the others around them. The best thing is to take what has been learned and to improve upon it.

    Mark A. Baker
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  2. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Acknowledging that is an excellent start.

    Mark A. Baker
  3. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader


    I tend to cling to the more mystical side of things. :) I found what you researched to be very rich, finding more layers in it than a fine french pastry. :happydance: I took it everywhere I went. Into all the studies I delved into...from morphogentic fields to noticing at what point a child stopped being 'himself'. It was the first rock allowing me to get myself across the stream.

    I was in a real bad pickle when I first met you in Santa Barbara. I mean it was really, really a bad time for me. I'm going to explain my dilemma here although the meatballs may dissapprove:

    I had a problem.
    I was totally 'stuck' in the war of the free being versus civilizations. I kid you not. And all the emotions that went with it. And all the things that transpired to land me where I was currently then sitting. Eons of it. I'd had 13 INT RDs when I hit the AAC. The things that I was worried about and the somatics I was experiencing and the suppressions I had going on had NOTHING seemingly to do with me in my daily life. I was confused and had no stability. No point of orientation...I'd become untethered from everything. AND I WAS UNDER ATTACK. I was PTS to someone I had run into and it was complex.

    What happened to me as a result was that I ended up with a malady. To survive I had emanated life all around me into my space. This life wasn't 'being' anything in particular. It was just raw material ready to be written on. Blank slates that anyone could imprint. I would take on the disdain or any opinion judged or thought of me. It made me less self-determined. I could clean up the upsets but the clean slate material remained. I'd no consistent perspsective of WHO I was in the middle of all of this. :no: I would've been institutionalized if I had not come to 'grok' what was going on. My first progress out of this condition came from you David Mayo. You, Julie, and Ken Urquhart. :bighug:
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2011
  4. MostlyLurker

    MostlyLurker Patron Meritorious

    David, thanks for sharing your thoughts. :bighug:
  5. David Mayo

    David Mayo Patron with Honors

    Dear Juanita,

    I am aware of all you have said here. And I know what Ken, Julie and I helped you to accomplish. I did not mean to negate any of that. But I must have. Tell me how?


  6. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

  7. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    You get over it by joining ESMB and laughing till you cry (or crying till you laugh, whichever you like).

    Thank-you for the above very honest post.


    May I ask how you feel about the lower level stuff these days?
  8. Hi David,
    even if we forget about OT abilities I think we all had personally on ourselves or on pc audited something extraordinary to tell. I am not doing Scientology anymore on myself but I am very far from thinking of throwing everything down the water-closet. Many things really amazing happened to me as a pc and to me as an auditor, and I think the same happend to you and to many others. Of course we had set goals very high, too high for sure, and that may be the real problem.
  9. thetanic

    thetanic Gold Meritorious Patron

    Kat, thanks for posting that. Some of the reactions about control freakery in the CofS in the early-to-mid 80s really rang true for me. I was offlines during the mission holder fiasco time, and when I came back (and went on staff shortly thereafter), everything felt more solid. Sadly, I thought it was good solid, not bad solid. There was one moment I could really relate to: only being willing to give up what the CofS could have in session. That's what eventually got me: if you're not willing to really talk to your auditor (or therapist of any sort) about anything, then you are in the wrong place talking to the wrong person. When I'd been through too many pain cycles associated with giving things up, I became less willing to talk. To that extent, my case gain grew less and less as my time in the CofS passed.

    I guess this explains some of the stories of churchies on NOTs, especially those who said you couldn't even think certain thoughts lest it be picked up in a confessional and a multi-month ethics cycle would begin.
  10. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I don't believe in higher states, either, except as achieved through action in whatever sphere we choose. I do believe that a person can cease sabotaging themself, reframe their experience and derive new lessons from it: I think you can have a mind-set that supports your goals, and you can have healthy goals that are aligned with how you view yourself, and that all of this can evolve, but I don't think it changes your "spiritual state", and certainly not "for eternity".

    Detour/example: television is a cool invention that can be used in many ways, depending on who is creating the content and who is deciding to watch it. It is NOT the greatest invention of all times, it won't make your life super-cool, it won't make you the most informed person ever, and it isn't a baby-sitter, etc. LOTS OF HYPE around the sales of TV. If you believed it, or any part of it, owning a TV can be very disappointing. Perhaps some harm can be done by TVs. So, some people throw them out, swear them off. Maybe they are "right" to do so. I think that if you acknowledge a tv for what it is, and use it the way you want to, rather than let hype guide the way it should be used and control your expectations, it can be a useful and fun tool.

    I think this applies to tools many people found in Dianetics and Scientology. They don't achieve the hype. They can be used in ways that cause damage, and often were and are. Some people have decided to throw them away, and reject anything having to do with them.

    Okay. :)
  11. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader


    Welcome, Please click the link in my signature. Do this: [Dramatization = Behavioral Re-enactment] and all will make sense to you.

    I alsoo advice you to read up on Cognitive Behavioral Therapy
  12. thetanic

    thetanic Gold Meritorious Patron

    My idea of a higher state is being more able to achive what one sets out to do or be.
  13. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    What makes you more able?

    - Good education
    - aquiring skills
    - overcoming difficulties / taking on challenges
    - getting rid of things that hold you back
  14. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    If this is your definition, then I agree that it is possible to achieve that definition. One doesn't achieve new abilities, though, without first learning them, and then practicing them.

    Examples might help.

    There are some things that a person can realistically set out to do. One might be to become a doctor, or a pilot, or to create an institution that survives their own death. Perhaps invent a technology that makes aging obsolete, and so prevent their own death! There are many more such examples in the class of things a person can realistically set out to do, be or have.

    Then, there are the class of things that are not realistically possible to do. An example might be to jump from Earth to the Moon unassisted. I'm sure you could think of others.

    It is possible to learn skills and obtain resources to accomplish realistic tasks, live extremely comfortably, have deep and meaningful relationships, and perhaps even to change the understanding of what is realistic (Wright brothers, Werner von Braun, Alan Turing, etc.). In doing so, perhaps a new "state" could be said to have been achieved.

    Argument can ensue about the limitations on what I conceive of as possible, and I don't intend to bind you or anyone with them, I was just using them as examples from within my present view. One of the really big problems for Scientology is that they have made hyperbolic claims about what their methods can enable a person to be, do and have, and made unsubstantiated claims about people's inherent potentials. These lead to spectacular disappointment (sometimes accompanied by suicide or murder) as well as nearly universal rejection of the methods themselves, though many people who were involved with the Church might admit that those methods did help bring about greater self-awareness, new perspectives, perhaps even new, valuable skills. These are usually rejected because they weren't what the person was sold, and because they were used as bait in a bait-and-switch operation.

    Agreed. Add to that: affiliation with groups that expand your connections within your chosen sphere of operation, obtaining access to resources previously not at your disposal, etc.

    Boils down to connecting with empowering entities and removing the influence of entities that block your progress. (Entities not meant to imply unproven non-incarnated beings with your choice of label.)
  15. thetanic

    thetanic Gold Meritorious Patron

    - knowing your limits
    - practice
  16. AnonGloss

    AnonGloss Patron

    There's a Harvey Haber selling real estate in Costa Rica. Wonder if it's the same guy...
  17. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Wow, Could be. Where ever they are I hope they are still doing good and are well.
  18. What do you mean by that? What should make sense to me? Can you tell me in short your comment about what I wrote? You gave me reference too long to read at the moment.
    I enjoyed an overall happy and interesting life in my 8 years of CofS from 75 to 83 and also in the following 7 years of AAC. I stopped at the right moment I think on both adventures, but it was good!
  19. David Mayo

    David Mayo Patron with Honors

    Promises, promises


    The point is that the old organization was promising heights that could not be delivered, taking money for them and disappointing people. We (you and I and many others) were not. Huge difference.

  20. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    THERE you are!