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Alan Walter pandora box

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Anonymous100, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. Anonymous100

    Anonymous100 Patron

    Hey all. I was reading some of the pandora box thread. Im a bit confused and maybe there is no answer to this.... Alan and others apparently put a lot of tech together eg the by passed charge tech. These people genuinely used the meter and worked processes out etc. Is there this part of the mind that responds to processes and basically you think you are getting better but its like a piece of elastic can pull the mind in various directions but it snaps back usually so no real gains?

    Alan and others must have been convinced they onto something and carrying on into knowledgism they could not have thought it was hypnotic etc. Im wondering if all this tech are just mind games and its quite dangerous playing around with the mind in case you end up worse...
    lotus likes this.
  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    You will find various different opinions on this board.

    Mine is that there may be some useful stuff, mixed with lots of harmful stuff, and it's hard to know what is which. Best to stay away entirely.
  3. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Rank amateurs messing with the mind/spirits of others was trendy back then ... there was money to be made and fame to be had as hubbard so amply demonstrated.

    Mental health is probably now the fastest growing industry in the Western world but hubbard and the knock off versions of scientology (like knowledgism) don't want to go anywhere near anyone who is actually mentally ill or in need of help (a very wise move as it happens because they have no solutions for genuine mental health issues and would no doubt be sued if they did) ... they were/are only interested in 'handling' cases people who are OK in the first place (ie the 'able') using generic one size fits all theories and a silly meter.

    No doubt Roger will be here soon to explain how brilliant Alan was and how terrible and stupid hubbard was so that should be interesting (not) considering they were both flogging the very same nonsense with a few slight changes (as per the agreement that was made between the cofs and Walter when he left the cofs to try and start his own cult) and only one of them was successful in achieving his intended goal.
    lotus likes this.
  4. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I guess that many if not most of us wait with baited breath for Roger's, no doubt well thought out, response as these are the kind of questions I'm sure he's used to and has become quite adept at answering and looks forward to each opportunity to set the record straight as he certainly has the cred and the right to. Not meaning to brown nose or anything like that it's just that through Roger we get a chance to really see back into a time and a world that he were not really a part of and only barely aware of. It's as great a view of that early research period and an exes subsequent evolution that we will ever find! Those early days seemed to be more fun at times.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
    lotus likes this.
  5. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    You'd have needed to bait your breath with lots of MONEY to get tubs hubbard to set any records straight ... and then he would've grabbed it and run off with it before you had chance to shut your mouth ... but yes, Roger will no doubt oblige for free.

    My breath isnt bated though, I've heard it all before.

  6. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Ah!!But the records I want straight are about who came up with each grade as an example and what's the backstory? Not trying to provoke a sales presentation and I think he'd be too self conscious about whether it would be seen as uncouth to lay out the promo instead of getting with the flow of the conversation. I think we are both repelled by the same things but it's all in the semantics.
  7. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Lol. I've never seen him miss the opportunity for a sales presentation yet! It's all good though, we all have the right to an opinion/viewpoint and that absolutely includes Roger.

  8. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    The one big problem I have with all this Scientology, Scientology-Light, Real-Scientology & Only-The-Workable-Parts-Of Scientology-- is that:

    The only end result ("EP") anyone can ever
    point to is the abstraction "feeling better".

    It's no different than any other New Age woo, because it relies on "feelings".

    Anyone having a feeling can therefore be used by the cult--as "proof" their tech "works".

    They don't care to mention those who don't have feelings about their tech, like myself. LOL

    Only theta feelings count. The rest of the "entheta" and "low-toned" feelings is filtered out, because that's the essential part of why the tech "works".

    It's like coming home from a casino and claiming that you had HUGE WINS! But, neglecting to mention that you also had slightly more LOSSES, meaning that you had to hitchhike home after your car title was forfeited.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  9. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    REF: Cult members "feeling really good about it".

    Cue background music - - the song FEELINGS ("feelings....nothing more than feelings...").

    So, the C/S says you can attest to the


    So pick up the cans while I meter
    check the EP. "Do you have any doubts
    or reservations about attesting
    to being stably exterior?"

    Oh, wait....I mean, I feel I am exterior
    but I'm not actually looking at things from
    3 feet in back of my head.

    Well, it doesn't say anything here on the attest
    question about you needing to actually be exterior.

    What? Really? Are you sure?

    The question is "Do you have any doubts/reservations
    about attesting" that you are exterior.. How do you feel about attesting?

    Oh, attesting? Well, if the C/S thinks I made it
    I feel really good about attesting!

    Your needle floated on that! I'll begin
    preparing your completion certificate immediately!
    Now as to font...the usual?

    Yup, Old English---awesome, let's do this!​

    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  10. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    postscript: After the above, the cult would run a full page ad in ADVANCE! magazine promoting a jubilantly grinning OT coming out of a casino, with the caption.


    The truth is he did just WIN $1,000,000 inside the casino.

    But (just before exiting) he also just LOST a $1,000,001 inside the casino.

    Any other questions about "Acceptable Truth"? lol


    Anonymous100 and Enthetan like this.
  11. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Not so, not that I recommend anyone using Scientology.

    A session that desensitises a particular trigger often (usually?) happens to end up with "feeling good" too. The feeling good usually wears off after a while, but does the desensitizing of the trigger? It's impossible to make a generalized statement, although one can say things like "For 30 years I suffered from ____, then I addressed it with ****, and haven't been bothered with _____ once since." Will it stay that way forever? Impossible to say, but ....

    This has happened with me in Scientology, and also using my own (free) stuff. Regarding my own stuff, I aim at the steak of desensitising triggers and the "feeling good" is the sizzle.

    Enthetan likes this.
  12. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Though Scientology was a blind sucker punch to the face on a cold day it had to contain some truths or it never would have stuck in us. Though I would never recommend that someone go through it in order to cull out it truths, those of us that had the colossal misfortune to have already gone through it might have escaped with a few truths that we still use in our lives. And that would have to be the case as Hubbard had something to say about everything in the known universe and plenty to say about universes in his own imagination and by sheer luck may have been inadvertently right about a few things, however few. I'd be much more interested in what Alan Walter had to say first before LRH stole it all. And if it came from Roger & Paul, all the better!
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
    Operating DB, Hatshepsut and Enthetan like this.
  13. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I'm not sure that's the reason I hung on in there. Yes, there was the temporary buzz from getting something off your chest or thinking you had discovered the source of a particular problem or whatever, but the glue that stuck me to the cult was the belief that somewhere over the rainbow bridge was enlightenment, freedom, lost abilities, extra-sensory perception and all the rest of it. But the truth is there really was no rainbow in the sky, only pie.
    Enthetan, Dulloldfart and DagwoodGum like this.
  14. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    Which happened to you the this ****, or the that _____? Or was it both?
  15. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    The only thing I recall collaborating in detail on with Rog was my IntExtStay module, added to PaulsRobot3 in 2012:

    All of that collaboration is contained in the famous ESMB thread Out-Int -- Fact or Fiction? along with many useful comments from posters past and present.

    At the time I released it I thought there would be many people saying wow, I finally cleared up those Int problems I had for years, or Yeah! Int by Dynamics for freeeeee! But no, didn't happen. I did try out the intention stuff, but it was hard to do, too hard for me. Oh well.

    DagwoodGum likes this.
  16. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Oh, Dear . . . more work

    Dag wrote:
    Dag, I fixed what looked to me to be a typo: I changed your “he” to “we” . . .

    Yes, as has been noted on earlier threads, I lived the development of the subject of the cult. And I’ve even tangentially, revealed how come I got in . . .

    As I’ve also recently noted, I currently still run a forum in which I have a small research group comprised of some Ph.Ds, M.Ds and other research scientists (university professor research types). My own background has been in research, having begun in the early-1950s as a champion swimmer involved in research into optimizing athletic performance. Forbes Carlile, then on faculty at Sydney University was my next door neighbor who led the endeavor. He later became the Aussie Olympic Coach and was Honored by the Queen for his accomplishments.

    I have no axe to grind on this issue other than dealing with the historical and other truths of the matter.

    My first contact with what turned out to be “Scientology” was accidental when I was pursuing an offered course in “Applied Psychology” at the “American College of Personal Efficiency” in Sydney. Forbes Carlile and I (and his team) had been also researching the issues of psychology as applied to athletic performance, and this offering appeared to be worthwhile to pursue.

    Hence, my involvement in what turned out to be Scientology has always been a matter of my continuing research. Honest researchers investigate offered avenues that appear might, or that are claimed to have, beneficial results.

    One should not beat up on oneself for getting “conned” by Hubbard . . . please realize that in the days before the internet was available to spread truth, anyone who was a published “best selling” author who also was cited as being a Ph.D. scientist was seen as being very, very credible.

    Hence my pursuit of Scientology: it was a research project.

    I was recently asked by a group to do a presentation of my findings and experiences. This is what I sent them to forward to their attendees.

    Roger E. Boswarva FBIM, CPT
    Roger will be talking to us about what has been learned in the sixty-six years he has been investigating the subject of human performance and the realm of our underlying spiritual Presence, Powers, Attributes and Capacities, with key information regarding actual true spiritual occurrences such as death and knowingly finding and inhabiting his next body, accidentally vanishing the physical universe for himself and another and then having to put it all back together again; and more—for example: what is “space-time?” Be prepared to have your questions answered!

    So you know where I am coming from, that FBIM means I earned the position of being a Fellow of the British Institute of Management for whom I ran management and personnel performance training and at the Management Center Europe, in Brussels.

    That “CPT” thingie represents that I have earned qualification as a Certified Performance Technologist with the International Society for Performance Improvement.

    Thus the above spells out my particular gig . . . it is human ability and the capacity to perform. That is what I’ve been on about for 60+ years.

    So, in that context, I’ll answer Dag’s and Rose 10’s call.

    First of all, one must state two basic points and truths about what many experienced in the Scientology cult.

    One: Folks did experience change when doing various of the procedures of Scn. Of course, not all change is good or beneficial, but often for many folks the change experienced felt, at first, to be good and beneficial.

    Two: Hubbard, being the fraud that he turned out to be, along with his dishonest and incompetent research, all based on his pursuit of a dishonest dollar, irresponsibly delivered INCOMPLETE and often erroneous technology/material.

    And it is those two points above that define the experience of many: they experienced change that they felt was good, but for some reason or other it did not seem to last and/or otherwise got trashed due to the inherent errors in the technology and/or the Scn enterprise’s abusive organizational behavior.

    The first and most egregious error and point of omitted technology in the subject speaks to point number one, above. When folks had wins, and in their view the beneficial change of ascending into a new realm of awareness and ability; the ascension was not understood, was relatively ignored, and not correctly addressed to stabilize it so as to put the State of Being, powers, awareness and abilities recovered under the full knowing control of the person. And this routinely resulted in what Alan Walter later referred to as the “Ascension Crash and Burn Phenomena.”

    Folks ascended up, but at that higher level of Being, awareness and power routinely unwittingly began to revivify (energize) other issues of encysted spiritual Life-Force (case) at that higher level of existence they had ascended to, and then felt what they referred to as “loss of gains” and/or “coming down” but yet still wanting to recover the high they had descended from. Alan even referred to this as folks being “ascension addicts” because they kept chasing these “highs.”

    Of course, Hubbard was too dishonest to research this matter nor to take any guidance . . . his gig was to dream up the next thing to sell the suckers!

    So, to answer Rose10’s question . . .

    Here is an anatomy of the situation that I hope explains what this is all about in the context of a) what are/were we addressing, b) what occurs when we address it, c) why does a meter work and what on,

    a) While many here do disagree, the fact is, many more folks know that they are Spiritual Presences capable of knowingly directing and deploying their Spiritual Life-Force. And, of what is this Spiritual Life-Force composed? . . . all of your native and natural faculties, abilities, powers and attributes such as potential (stem word “potent”), awareness, knowledge, love, truth, the ability to align and relate, etc.

    All the Eastern and Oriental cultures are aware of their spiritual essence and partake of exercises to enhance this essence and gain more knowing control thereof. It is referred to by different, but similar, names: Qi, Chi, Prana, etc.

    I have a Doctor of Osteopathy (a fully accredited and licensed Physician here my NYC) I work with (in the research sense . . . though he is currently treating Virginia for a physical injury condition). His particular specialty is realigning the encysted, misaligned or gone awry spiritual Life-Force impacts on the patient’s body. He does this at a spiritual level and by placing his hands on the patient’s body in appropriate locations. And to be noted is that this is a practice he has been honored to be taught by and be inducted into the Native American Indian Medical Man hierarchy for. Check out his website here:
    And the reference to the Native American spiritual healing practices he has been inducted into here:

    And what are, and were, we addressing in the sense of trying to undo and improve the condition of? Well, it happens that, for various reasons, our spiritual Life-Force becomes encysted, blocked, stopped and locked-up in old conflicts and no longer under our full knowing control.

    Colloquially, this encysted spiritual Life-Force has been and is referred to as “Force, Charge and/or Mass.”

    It is locked up in what is generally referred to as “the mind.” Though, those who refer to it as thus have not correctly defined either what the mind actually is or what it is composed of. Also, it has not been fully comprehended by many that the encysted Life-Force thus held “in the mind” is held in a kind of energy form, a potential which when released, voluntarily or accidentally, discharges just like static electrical charge does.

    b) When we address this accumulation of encysted old, pent-up Life-Force it can discharge and in doing so its content can become known and control of it be regained. Various techniques and procedures can accomplish this . . . they are not reserved to the cult of Scientology.

    The spiritual practices of the East and Oriental China and Japan have been doing this for millennia.

    c) Why does the meter work??? Well, look at that fact that spiritual Life-Force can become encysted, blocked, stopped and suspended in motion so as to express as and become Force, Charge and Mass. As such it has impedance to an electrical current but, when the nature or amount of the encysted Force, Charge and Mass changes, that change registers on the meter.

    These last two points: b) and c), are well known in medical science, and used in procedures such as the electroencephalogram (EEG) which is a test that detects electrical activity in your brain using small, metal discs (electrodes) attached to your scalp. Though it is to be noted, they are using different terms than I have, and also that they might not have recognized the actual source of the “electrical” energy they are registering when reading the live Being (dead folks have no electrical signals from “the brain.”)

    And this request by Dag will be dealt with in a next post:

    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
    Anonymous100 likes this.
  17. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    "I think we are both repelled by the same things but it's all in the semantics." - What I didn't make clear here is that I was referring to the amounts of money and time demanded by the COS that robbed one of their life energy and forced one to live a lowered standard of living which was definitely not what many of us signed up for nor were made aware of during the initiation process. I am VERY resistive when people come at me for my money or my time as a result of my life as a clam.
    Operating DB likes this.
  18. Anonymous100

    Anonymous100 Patron

    I would like to know what hubbard studied exactly. I know he made a big thing about studying eastern philosophy but I wonder how much of it he used to inspire the bridge or if the OTO stuff was his main source ...

    The thing is Rog Ive got into something called retracing and development. Basically if you consider that the body can heal itself given the right nutrients or environment eg a cut heals itself ....and a plant can be revived if watered etc...then the mind as part of this perfect machine can also heal itself. It takes time and getting healthier but I have experienced this. Incomplete emotions get completed so for example you lost your dog ...this will get retraced by the mind and you will experience the loss and grief but this time you allow the emotion to run to completion. Then it goes. Its very strange but very true. You will think of people you havent seen in years and any incompleted emotion connected with them will complete and it will provide a relief. Old fears will come up anx blow away as one looks over it naturally. This also happens with the body...actually discovered I believe at the beginning of 19th century with a case of syphillis ...the body went back through the illness and healed it ..

    Basically one doesnt need a meter. Thats forcing a kind of retrace but leaving the body doesnt work in my opinion. Mind and body work as a team.

    So re the sun burns coming up on the purif...this is not radiation blowing off it is the trauma of sun burn being retraced by the not sure why this would happen with the ingestion of niacin...but the sunburns would be retraced in an exact order from latest to earliest.
  19. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    That's fair enough ... if there was one single thing about scientology worth hanging onto I would have been quite happy to do so while ridding myself of the rest and I would've happily paid for it or spent time on it if necessary, but (for me) there wasn't a single thing about it that I wanted to retain. I was very, very happy to just flick the whole lot and naturally that included and continues to include any knock off versions of the same.

    I just don't see the point of any of it ... it's just pointless excessive rambling about nothing and it always requires acceptance and belief in the unacceptable and/or the unbelievable.

    Type4_PTS and HelluvaHoax! like this.
  20. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    I had to ask myself the same question just now after reading your cool post.


    I honestly just asked/answered it:

    ANSWER: If I don't understand something that I am reading/listening to, look it up. (Study Tech)
    THE TRUTH: Scientology convinces Scientologists that "study tech" (using a dictionary) is new-advanced-technology. They indoctrinate further that STUDY itself is something new "discovered" by L. Ron Hubbard.​
    CONCLUSION: Scientology lied. People have been studying and learning for hundreds of thousands of year. Thus I reject my own Answer.​

    ANSWER: When talking to someone look at them (TR-0)
    THE TRUTH: Scientology convinces Scientologists that looking someone in the eye is new-advanced technology.​
    CONCLUSION: Scientology lied. People have been looking at one another since the beginning of time. Thus I reject my own Answer.​

    SUMMARY: No, there nothing I got from Scientology that wasn't already well known and common sense.

    FREE BONUS SECTION: I also asked L. Don Hubbard (see avatar) for his opinion. Don, as many of you already know, is Ron's estranged and blown twin brother. Here is what he said about looking up words in a dictionary.

    "None of the people who are responsible for sending a man to the moon
    used study tech. On the other hand, Scientology uses study tech and
    can't even send a man to the store to buy toilet paper"

    - L. Don Hubbard

    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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