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Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Anonymous100, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. screamer2

    screamer2 Idiot Bastardson

    If one was OT, there would have been a parking space easily found and the car never would have been towed.
  2. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Hubbard never did a actual Placebo study. Although he did talk about it in his early lectures of Dianetics.

    What we need is a blinded study.

    In the Dianetics and scientology case, the study would be two control groups.

    First control group receiving auditing and reading the EP's to be had for the EP's listed on Dianetics and the Bridge to Total Freedom.

    Second control group would be people receiving auditing but they have no idea of the EP's or any idea of Dianetics and the Bridge to Total Freedom.
    Hatshepsut and Type4_PTS like this.
  3. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I would ALSO want non-Scientologist technicians running brain scans during the auditing of both groups.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
    Type4_PTS, DagwoodGum and Gib like this.
  4. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Remember this 2012 thread regarding a brainwave visualiser I got? You posted in it. I never made any further videos. I still have the equipment, but haven't used it since 2012.

    Edit: It would be interesting to see brain scans at the same time as (proper) auditing occurring, although I don't know how much I would read into it, not being a man-is-meat-only guy.

    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  5. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    First time I've seen that Paul . . . I must have been away on a trip when you posted it.

    Interesting to see the correlation between the two methods of your, ummm, whatever it was you were reading/registering there:p

    It does demonstrate the emeter does register on such activity.
  6. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Delete . . . this code shit locked me into a quote box.
  7. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    That's annoying but it's easy to get out ... hit BB code editor (the button is on the top line, second from the right above the reply pad) ... fiddle around (ie write a few words outside the quote) and then click back into Rich Text Editor (that appears at bottom left of the reply pad but it only appears once you are in Rich Text Editor).
  8. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Well, Rose, your last post raises a different set of questions that I answered based on your first post.

    I nor anyone else here would have any facts as to what Hubbard actually studied in his "research" other than what the con-man related in his lectures and writings . . .

    You wrote above:
    Well, OK . . . the body is the body, and it does as you say. I have written extensively on the subject of the body in other threads. I'm not going into any argument over that. I answered your original request in the terms you asked for.

    Now for Dag's second question:
    Well, as I have noted elsewhere on ESMB, the beginnings of the Grade Chart gig occurred in Melbourne in 1963.

    At that time we only had WOG, Clear (with variations like "Theta Clear" etc.) and "OT"

    But what was happening we were running past big wins and causing cases to crash. A staff member buddy of mine, named Ross Turnbull, noticed this Over Running the process phenomena (O/R) and reported it to Hubbard that we were producing a kind of "release" but not a clear, and that this needed to be recognized.

    Hubbard's response was to put out an HCOB revising the states of case as WOG, A Release, and Clear. I do not recall Ross Turnbull being mentioned regarding the discovery . . .

    This was typical Hubbard. I had earlier, in 1961, written to him of my observations regarding theimportance of the subject of teh individuals goal and purposes . . . i.e., these are the individual's "driving forces" that we should address and rehabilitate, etc.

    Following that, Hubbard released his attempts and the Goals tech.

    Later Gordon Bell who was on staff in DC, and an "adept" in his own right (known here variously as Mystic and Druid, was tasked with writing up the first version of the "Grade Chart" that delineated the "Release Grades" and what processes would fit where.

    A lot of this is covered in this thread:

    Here is the discussion on Study Tech, the Berners, etc. ACW

    Type4_PTS and Dulloldfart like this.
  9. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Thanks Rog, I find this thread particularly illuminating as by the fact of LRH stealing Gordon Bell's contributions, namely the grades, it provides a microcosmic look at how Hubbard performed "his research" - he stole it.
    This is a classic ESMB thread of heavy hitters and I hope I don't lose it this time but my memory just isn't what it used to be so I've bookmarked it.
    What ever has become of Gordon Bell?
  10. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Our Gordon is alive and well . . . even after getting booted off of ESMB by our beloved Mother of Dragons for his weird rants and rumblings. He has taken his particular weird brilliance to Facebook:) tading under the name Lakota River . . . the old bastard is indestructible even with his penchant to his particular brand of native American Indian tobacco!

    PS/edit: On the subject of losing threads, I have a doc in my MS Explorer title ESMB Threads, and in it are the links with brief notes explaining the important material contained in each link I think is important. . . hence, it becomes a snap and pop to pull up relevant info.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
    DagwoodGum likes this.
  11. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    By the way Rose10 . . .

    On the subject of the body and its responses and healing . . .

    Two things to check out and get into your tool kit :

    1) Bruce Lipton PhD . . . you'll find lots of his videos on line. Bruce made the big discovery that each of our body cells is sentient . . . check out his revelations on this point.

    2) get learned on the subject of epigenetics . . . it's the subject of gene expression and what causes such expression and changes in the body. Lipton is the guy who broke the news on this subject. He demonstrated that when "you" direct your attention at the structure of your genes within the cell (that being DNA plus the encasing proteins) you cause the package to express in different ways based on the content/mood etcetera of your thought.

    Another man who is a leader in this area of knowledge is Rupert Sheldrake with whom Lipton did a brilliant recorded conversation. I had the pleasure of meeting Sheldrake and chatting with him when he was in Manhattan last November.

    The above info is imperative knowledge if one is going to engage in discourse on the subjects raised in this thread.
    DagwoodGum and Type4_PTS like this.
  12. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I attended a lecture that Lipton gave some years ago in San Jose, CA, shortly after he wrote this book, very much worth reading by the way:

    The Biology of Belief 10th Anniversary Edition: Unleashing the Power of Consciousness, Matter & Miracles,aps,325&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

    I had a chance to meet him after the lecture and chat with him for a couple minutes, something I highly recommend. He's an amazing person!
  13. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    The skin flushes from niacin because the blood vessels open up (dilate). That is science. It is fact. It is biology and physiology. Blood vessels have nothing to do with radiation.

    There are limits to how much the body can heal itself. If there weren't, there would be people who never die. Unfortunately, in this universe and on this planet, everything that lives also dies. Plants die, too, but they have roots and other ways of sprouting new plants. We have children that carry our DNA.
  14. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    "There are limits to how much the body can heal itself. If there weren't, there would be people who never die. Unfortunately, in this universe and on this planet, everything that lives also dies. Plants die, too, but they have roots and other ways of sprouting new plants. We have children that carry our DNA."

    This is how I see it, big picture. Of course I could be full of shit.

    We have religion (soul), we have philosophy (morals and ethics and way of life), and we have science (knowledge, and thru experimentation or engineering gaining new knowledge).

    I agree with your statement Sheila, there is only so much one can do, and by that I mean religion, philosophy and science. We only live so long and that's it. But we try, thru all 3 to comfort, lead a better life and heal.

    I think, keeping on Hubbard's so called religion, why he tried to combine all 3 to make us think, why we would come back, the Sea Org motto. Hubbard cleverly thru words got us to think we could come back with perfect recall. Obviously this is not true, since time has gone by. And, of course, many did not fall for Hubbard's words of wisdom, only us so called elite's fell for Hubbard's stick..
    Enthetan, DagwoodGum and JustSheila like this.
  15. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Fair comment Gib. . . . but I must say, I have experienced something quite different.

    Apart from an awareness, in detail, of some earlier lifetimes, there is this experience I wrote of here on ESMB some time ago. Others also relate their similar experience on this linked thread.

    The post is 10-11 years old now, and this link gives us page one of the thread (which contains lots of good discussion on hot points) but the post I have tried to link shows up on page 10 in my browser . . . and actually the last page to show.

  16. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I read your success story Rog, on page 10.

    It doesn't explain how the body heals itself? Thru the mind and scientology or knownledism, or whatever it's called.

    There has been great advances in science on how the body can heal itself, it's called immunology. And it has nothing to do with religion or philosophy.

    There are a lot of great minds investigating this:

    All these companies have to go thru Phase 3 trails of actual blinded studies to determine if their solution will help, and that includes placebo.

    There ain't no great minds investigating Hubbard's bullshit and off shoots, sorry to say. Need placebos in Hubbard's words of wisdom and any off shoots.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
    programmer_guy likes this.
  17. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Well, Gib . . .

    Since you like "science" do a read up on epigenetics, and in particular the revelations made by Bruce Lipton who demonstrated that the thoughts directed at the cells of the body do indeed change the expression of the genes and DNA, etc.

    But then again, as I said, my experience has been very different to that of those who state thought or one's directing of one's attention, moods or Life-Force does nothing.

    In actuality, one of the researchers in my group ran PhD programs comprised of her students investigating exactly the immune responses in cell structures at a molecular level (she has a whole list of words that describe and define it that I forget) . . . and hard science is what it is . . . but it is not the subject of applied ability to knowing produce results by knowing intent as a spiritual presence. This research buddy knows and demonstrates this with her work . . . for those interested in knowing, of course.
  18. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I had an experience that has forever altered my perspective on whether our thoughts influence our flesh.
    I was at a hospital having my liver and upper GI tract ultrasound test.
    I swallowed the barium mix and the nurse and I watched it dribble down into my stomach in real time on the monitor.
    Then because it just sat there glowing white but not moving the nurse said "imagine eating something that really sounds good right now".
    So I imagined eating Eggs Benedict with it's delicious hollendais sauce.
    Immediately my stomach opened up and let the barium flow down into my intestines which was what the test was all about.
    I remember saying "wow, so the body really does hear the mind and respond accordingly".
    She said "yes, the body follows your thoughts and when you imagined the Eggs Benecitct it released it contents into the large intestine so as to make room for the Eggs Benedict that you tricked it into thinking you were about to eat. Most people are very surprised to see the results in real time on the monitor".
    I was surprised to see the result so conclusively.
    The danger is that it listens to others too, in some cases more so.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  19. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Pavlov's dog :biggrin: :

    Pavlov called the dogs' anticipatory salivation "psychic secretion". Putting these informal observations to an experimental test, Pavlov presented a stimulus (e.g. the sound of a metronome) and then gave the dog food; after a few repetitions, the dogs started to salivate in response to the stimulus.

  20. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    I've found myself there so many times, and it's almost impossible to get out of it.:)