ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Analysis of Church writings

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by MarkWI, May 28, 2007.

  1. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Gordon Bell put the Grades 0 to IV levels material together.

    Just as Pam Kemp put the Drug R/D together.

    They are an amalagamation of many years of originations and discoveries, done by many people.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2012
  2. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Probably 1966-7. She never copntinued with scn.
  3. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    I must be psychic :) I just knew you were going to say that!

    There's definitely scope for a board game in this, you know the kind of thing: receive quickie grades miss two turns, or, pick up chance card - you read naughty things on the internet - go straight to ethics officer, do not pass eligibility, do not collect cert., etc.
  4. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    In 1970 the field was littered with inactive people who had done Quickie Grades, rumoured to include Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen and the man who ran the fish & chip shop around the corner from Tottenham Couurt Road! :D

    It always beggared belief that LRH, who so closely dominated the tech, had never known about Quickie Grades!
  5. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Lol! The first to cleared theta clear is the winner.:)
  6. Roland ami

    Roland ami Patron with Honors

    Quickie Grades

    Sorry I only just looked at this thread.

    Obviously LRH was behind quickie grades, that was clear all along, and we all just winked at it in my time.

    It did seem to me that he was willing to allow observation to trump theory, eventually at least. I know Alan thinks differently! He probably felt he couldn't admit to having screwed up big time for the general Scn world - and I do know how that kind of thing feels! It wasn't very noble of him to blame others, but it might have seemed the best thing to do on the whole.

    I have to agree with Alan's observation about ex-Scns being bypassed cases. Just extrapolating from my own experience - something like 400 hours on M-1 alone, and I still run into m/u's occasionally, and don't have as complete a grasp of mathematics as I'd like (tensors are truly painful for me to figure out). But that's about 100 times longer than most people.

    In my time, status had an awful lot to do with what auditing you wanted to get. You got through the grades ASAP in order to get onto NED so you could go clear and get onto the OT levels. Only if you got onto a real co-audit, like the FPRD co-audit we could do for a while at ASHO and AOLA in the 80's could you simply go for the hours to your heart's content. And that was killed of course.

  7. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, one sort of read the blaming others with a sort of oh-hum of glossing over his words didn't one?

    Actually your phrase "but it might have seemed the best thing to do on the whole." suddenly struck me as the complete and sole justification for everything wrong with Scn and the CofS - it seemed the best thing on the whole! Love it! :thumbsup:

    I co-audited the grades and we each spent lots of hours running every reading command and taking as long as we wanted. We also C/Sed ourselves so had no outside interference whatsover. It was truly wonderful!

    Later, after I was identified as an SP, my twin visited me to try to rescue me. He said in all his auditing since, not one minute of my Grades auditing of him had needed correction or repair! Wasn't I a clever boy! ;)
  8. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    They can be very convincing!
  9. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh no! are you saying he was lying! Argh! Emma, where's the emoticon of a bubble bursting?! Surely a Scientologist wouldn't lie to an SP would they?

    Alanzo, ex-scns can be very cruel!

    Argh all my grades are going out! Oh no! I'm so invalidated, I've just realised they've always been wrong, I'm so upset, Scientologists deserve everything that is coming to them, I'm stuck and nobody can help me, I've got nothing else to say.....
  10. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    No - I mean SPs. The guys in the black hats.

    Ron said they can be very convincing!

    They can audit you for hours, giving you tons of wins. The auditing can be so good that no qual action will ever be needed on any of it. Yet there they are, kicking the cat because the radio is broken or bringing down orgs with the stroke of a pen.

    They're fighting a mad, howling yesterday, you know.
  11. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator


    Here ya go :)
  12. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh, I suddenly feel allright again! I could talk for hours, life is easy and fun, no conflicts, no upsets and I can be wrong as well as right! Yippee!

    Emma, where the emoticon of a ballon being inflated?

    Seriously, what is the opposite of Quickie grades? Thorough co-audits with no stat being measured and no targets 'cept feeling better.
  13. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    The best an antisocial can do is pretended help, not actual help. If they actually thought they were helping you their bubble would burst.

    I had a tenant who I know would have just died if he ever thought anything he did was helpful to me. Anyone know someone like that?
  14. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I think that if the Scientology grades were allowed to be delivered that way, it would be an extremely helpful and constructive thing.

    Which would drive me CRAZY!!!

  15. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    It was a tremendously fun way to give and receive the grades. We were well-trained auditors who met a few times a week and co-audited with no stat, no C/S, no Org supervision. It was the best of my days in Scn. We trusted each other and just ran those processes!

    Took months, but time was not important.

    I got declared, he dodged the bullets. Our ways had to part. Not met since for a qaurter of a century, but we will always be friends. :)
  16. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    I'll bet.

    That was one thing great about having a twin: the friendship that can develop among twins can be very deep. It can create an incredibly open and freeing relationship that you never forget.
  17. MarkWI

    MarkWI Patron Meritorious

    Justice and rehabilitation

    Begin of fair quote use (typos are mine)



    Rome destroyed herself by failing to follow (or know) the necessity of rehabilitation. Russia is caving in for the same lack. every modern nation at this writing makes more criminals than it caputres - hence Hitler's criminal rise to power.

    When you punish a man you punish also his family and friends. Even if you slayed the man you would then still have his friends and family as your enemies. If you slay everyone he knew - why, they have friends and families, too - and at last you've a whole populace against you.

    You punish a man. He goes away to join the ranks of the squirrels. You swell the opposition. Don't do it.

    Shoot the offender for the public good and then patch him up quietly. That isn't even mercy. It's good sense.


    So it's mercy, not revenge to prompts our justice. 1) We must not neglect it and 2) we must not fail to rehabilitate.


    It's a relief to a bad case to be punished. Sometimes they choose us for their executioners - worse luck. More often than not you as my representative get selected as the person to wield the axe and a criminal-type will try and try to get you to use an axe on him. It would feel so good to be punished after lives of crime. Axe him - but rehabilitate him too.

    – LRH, Manual of Justice, 1959

    End fair quote use.

    I wonder how many good scientologist were subject to heavy ethics and justice without being rehabilitated. Maybe Miscavige was missing this little piece of policy (or squirrelled it on purpose :eek: ).

  18. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Of course this didn't start with Miscavage, he's just following the example set by LRH.

    LRH started the declares not Miscavage. LRH started the CommEvs with forced inevitable conclusions.

    LRH was an expert at heavy justice. of course he hid this with specious offers of rehab. You can't rehab if the justice was incorrect, false or unfair in the first place!

    Can you tell me anything different that DM does now that LRH didn't do? My Scn experience is in the LRH days not Miscavage, so I would be interested to know if he does worse than LRH did.
  19. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Stand on tip-toe?

  20. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    huh? :confused: