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Analysis of Church writings

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by MarkWI, May 28, 2007.

  1. MarkWI

    MarkWI Patron Meritorious

    Just hoping that LRH was better.

    From the same Manual: "Don't ordinarily put a head on a pike unless it's the right head. But remember that there are times when it's vitally necessary to put some head, any head, on a pike to quell rising disorder. Just remember that justice is an action to deter disorder and secure the public safety. But if you do put the wrong head on a pike, be sure to put it back on the body again as soon as the need for its being on a pike is over."

    But seems no heads have been put back. :no:
    Another example as the CoS creating its own problems.
  2. Roadrunner

    Roadrunner Patron with Honors

    Terril Park

    I saw this response of Terril Park and decided to register to be able to respond to this.

    It is a matter of decency and manners to not badmouth persons that are not present. A total of 5 persons were sort of commending eachother how crazy this Barbara would be. Terril himself was actively supporting this defaming. I simply pointed out that this was not alright to do.

    It is a lie that I would have posted stuff from his forum to Barbara or ARS. Terril also accused me of this in private emails, on his forum and privately I denied that I did this. I did however contact Barbara -who I indeed consider to be a friend of mine-, and simply folded out to her that she was being seriously badmouthed on Terril's group with full support of Terril himself.

    It was in fact Terril that threatened me, he is twisting here. I chose not to accept the immoral approach of Terril and the other 4 persons, which is the sole reason why Terril kicked me from his group. Either way a group that has and supports such standards is not a group where I wish to be.

    Interesting is the last comment of Terril: "Anyone who considers themselves in agreement with Barbara Schwartz is IMO suspect of being a can or two short of a six pack." I have on his group and to him in person made very clear that I am not in agreement with all issues with Barbara. However I have known her and have had exchanges with her for a number of years and she NEVER has failed me or betrayed me. Where Terril and some others did.

    Terril is kindly requested to refrain himself to not twist the happenings and facts as they occured on his yahoo group regarding this interim in time with Barbara Schwarz.

    I am not sure if this will be posted here, however ALL I do is defending myself and attempting to set things straight.

    Last edited: Jun 24, 2007
  3. Roadrunner

    Roadrunner Patron with Honors

    Your "Scn experience" in which instance of time was that?
    60's, 70's, exact years...

  4. marty

    marty Patron with Honors

    Lionheart, grades are not quicky these days or at least not as of 7 years ago. I kind of switched off on scio after I left so to a large degree Im pretty vague now on the attest line. But I do recall this much. When a C/S decides that a grade is complete he sends it to the Snr C/s who verifies it. To do this the grades checklist is checked to see if all the processes have been run and that the pc has voiced the various cognitions along the way that are indicative of that grades EP. But irrespective of this what is most looked for is that the tone arm action has been run out of the grade. It is a requirement of the auditor to carefully record the TA of the sessions. The Snr C/s would then make a graph of this TA action to clearly see that the charge coming of the case had diminished towards the end of the checklist. If the TA was found to have not tapered off then the pc was put back to the beginning of the checksheet. This involved verifying that EPed flows were indeed EPed and if not run to EP. Unreading flows were rechecked and if now reading run to EP. In this way the checklist done again. Usually this flattens off the TA but if not other processes can be added. The final action and session for the grade is to rehab the "ability gained" quote unquote on all four flows for that grade and if this goes satisfactorily the Snr C/S will then pass the pc through Qual for attest.
    Qual terminals will again check everything before permitting the attest cycle.
    So that Lionheart to answer your question is the "opposite of Quickie grades". Though in my observation quicky can still happen. BK may have a better take on this attest line. I have too many overts to recall it exactly:unsure:
  5. Little Bear Victor

    Little Bear Victor Silver Meritorious Patron

    Right, not yet. DM considers the current compilation of the grades to be suppressive and has been "trying" to get it recompiled for years on end. That's what landed Ray Mithoff in the SP Room, he is the one that tried to do the recompilation. That's the same reason that took John Eastment off tech lines for good; he was the next one to try the same.

    I guess there are some compilers still left, but in the end the same thing is going to happen as happens with everything else: All compilers who work on this will get busted and DM will "save Scientology single handedly" by doing the compilation himself.

    The "problem" (per DM) with the grades is that after Tech Degrades issue, they wer suppressively compiled by Russ W and now ALL grades processes are run for every grade, taking forever and a day. How it apprently should be is that the ACTUAL grades processes are run and then, only if the PC didn't make it, he is C/S'ed for the other processes for that grade.

    As with everything else, it's mostly an economic issue, not a tech one as far as I can tell.

  6. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Well, I don't see anything wrong with that line of reasoning per se, but wasn't it Gordon Moore that originally compiled\classified the grades processes? Alan would know. The point being, how can you determine an ACTUAL grades process from the additional ones?
  7. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    I'm guessing that the final process of each grade (which is called the Quad, as it has four flows) would be the grade, and all the other processes are additional processes. Here comes the quickie Grades again!!!!

    Maybe Alan knows more.:melodramatic: (It's contagious!!!):confused2:
  8. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Gordon Bell originally compiled the grades.

    There is a simple way to know when a process is complete (for the moment) that is when there are no more answers.

    The best way to judge a subject or Grade completion is the person is at cause over the subject:

    i.e: You had a problem having money - you now can have money.

    You had a problem communicating to people - you now can and do enjoy communicating to people.

    Dianetics is based on running Mental Image Pictures, if you can and are willing to confront any MIP - you have EPed on Dianetics.

    Usually from that time on incidents will come to view - but you can run those incidents effortlessly.

    Often a person blows their Dn case getting off their major withold(s). Dianetics is similar to watching videos.....Holograhic incident running is a completely different subject as that includes the ability to intend and create plus can span the full spectrum of abilities.:happydance:
    This is also why O/W is a very limited process. Usually there are only a few Overts or Withholds on any subject. Demanding more answers than the person has will cause the person to believe that processing does not work and/or that they are no case gain.:mad:

    (This also leads to all sorts of wrong assumptions, out lists, wrong items, self listing, etc.) (Add to that having some idiot Ethics Officer or Exec invalidating or evaluating for you what is an Overt or withhold and you can finish a person off forever.)

    Almost all Scio and FZ Grades processing is done on a valence or substitute identity - thus if you shift valence or substitute another identity your Grades processing that valence or substitute identity needs the then becomes a never ending process - again it feels like your not getting anywhere! :mad:

    Add to this; if your processor is in a low identity - thus you often cannot get at cause.

    Back in the olden days we used to process the pc in front of us. That was outlawed in Oct 1968 and you processed the C/ has been down hill ever since.

    Running LRHs case as your case also does not work.

    Processing is a very personal subject - to work it can only be done on what the pc wants to handle......and that is monitored by the pc's Prime Dreams, and Goals.

    No Prime Dreams or Goals means the pc is buried in some past stop.

    If you process anything else you will end up with someone who thinks processing does not work.

    Somehow over the years processing became a one-size fits all subject - that will not work.

    Reading what most of you have gone through - it is very evident why so many think processing does not work - it didn't!

    Life is very easy - find what you love to do and - do it!

    If you run into stops or misdirectors get a session - if your purpose turns back on - go back to living your life.

    Life is the big main line process.

    Living life to its fullest is a major process.

    The only reason to go into session is when that process is stopped, slowed or nullified.

    Often a good night sleep will handle that. :)

    If you are one of those people who are stupid enough to want to get ALL CASE handled and be all you can Be - Do - or Have - then expect to spend a lot of time, money and effort to get that done - after all that is a dream of many imbicilic people. :)

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2012
  9. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    You are dealing with "control freak - meglomaniacs."

    A control freak, meglomaniac must be in control of ALL CASES at ALL TIMES!

    Thus a fixed Grade Chart.

    Grades or any process for that matter should only be run when needed.

    Stats being made more important than pc's - ends up with an unworkable Technology.

    Let's face it people are staying away in droves, to keep the stats up people are trapped into the chair or Org.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2012
  10. haiqu

    haiqu Patron Meritorious

    The senior C/S datum is that you stop once the EP of the grade is attained. Wouldn't matter how many processes were listed, this is still true.

    But as I recall, LRH re-issued all this stuff in the late 70's with dire warnings to anyone who would dare change the checksheets yet again. Even the GAT stuff rode over that material. So, whether it's changed again is irrelevant, it has been squirreled for many years.

  11. haiqu

    haiqu Patron Meritorious

    I remember cogniting on that in session once:

    "Hey, I'm auditing someone else's case here!"

    I thought at the time, maybe at some point we started auditing others telepathically or something ... left me fairly puzzled. OT III handled that. :D

    I'd like to get as much of it handled as possible. Yeah, I'd be satisfied with a 5'8" Swedish blonde, a Ferrari and a million bucks, but I'd also like to be able to have some certainty that next time around I don't have to do it all over.