Anonymous Letter to Co$

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Jbrazel, Feb 2, 2008.

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  1. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    :thumbsup: :clap:
     
  2. Jbrazel

    Jbrazel Patron

    O'Rly?

    What happened to Keith Henson was definitely an injustice and while I appreciate your *concern* Michael, I am not at all worried that what I reprinted might be viewed as "terroristic threatening" by any law enforcement agency.

    Thanks for playing and :goodluck: to you too.

    The pool is closed, /b/tard.--JB
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2008
  3. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Alex and Sneakster are not COS entities. Nor am I. IMO Lol!

    Well Alex has connections which he is upfront about. You wanna shoot him?

    As to supporting anon, its questionable no doubt.

    I'm leaning that way myself.


    bb
     
  4. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging

    No worries

    You are probably quite right about Alex and Sneakster, but IMHO they are attacking the one force that has really listened to us over how long? The Lisa McPhearson trust were battling away for years before being taken down. The mass media lives like a junkie on fresh stories, once the story has gone stale, they just don't give a flying f***, they want to sell ratings or papers, I don't blame them, its just he way the scene is rigged and I play their game, it was only thanks to Anon that I got on two national and three local radio shows and had my story printed in two national newspapers.

    Why would anyone want to stop the actions Anon are doing? I like these guys, I probably delivered a class to some of them in Dublin last week.

    We, on this board and on OCMB have a tendancy to just chatter away among ourselves, yes it is nice, and the people are here are cool, but the forum provides a wider opportunity for us to actually expose criminal actions by 'the corporation', it provides an opportunity for those who want to, to contact the freezone and practice the tech without the oppressive weight of the Sea Org bearing down on them, ripping them off and making their lives a misery. And right now? It provides a place for Anon people to get the sense of the actual humanity of the people who are in Scientology, we ex scn people are absolutly typical of the demographic cross section of the Scientologist, Anon can see that - generally, a couple of exceptions - we are decent people who were f*** with and rebeled, got out. And Anon can make the connection with what they are dealing with and help us achieve our dream, the end of Miscavitch, the end of the SO, the end of Management and freedom of our dear friends, family members and a lot of decent people we don't know.

    You are an intellegent, decent person Terril, don't be scared to ask for what you want, give these people your support. That's all.
     
  5. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Thanks. :)

    I have to some degree.

    Let the games begin.
     
  6. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Actually I have sympathies towards anarachy, but I see the anons to be working on incomplete data and therein lies their downfall.

    They have bought into the the more emotional and sensational aspects of scientology without understanding what actually supports the existence of the church, the basic truths that indicate to people and motivate them to become involved with it in the first place.

    You should know, as you were once a scientologist. I doubt you spent the time and effort for those years without something to attach your "reality" to.

    That is what the anons dont get. Thus they are a bit off target, yea they have the name right, but not the specifics that are what generate the things they fight.

    It is my belief that confronting the exact time form place and event of the outpoints is the way to the truth. There is plenty of that.

    I dont see labeling scientology as evil and decrying unspecified murder and kidnapping and coercion as the best path.

    alex
     
  7. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well yes, my ego knows no bounds and I do like to predict the future.

    I believe that putting attention onto the future, and projecting solutions to ones goal there is the highest form of sanity.

    But you can think of my "predictions" about JT seeing the letter, a guess if that feels better!

    If I was JT, I sure hope I didnt play ostrich with the truth, or other viewpoints....

    I suspect he is less insulated than TC though...

    alex
     
  8. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well I would ask that the anons google the pilots points of reform and attack the church on its own failure to deliver what it promises.

    alex
     
  9. Alanzo

    Alanzo Because Someone's Gotta Be The Asshole

    I agee:

    Let's decry the specific murders, kidnappings and coercions.

    Start, Alex.
     
  10. Fancy

    Fancy Patron Meritorious

    Well I found out I was declared SP today.

    http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=61966#post61966

    Is where I posted my story.

    Anon I was feeling sorry if you won for the churchies till today.

    A lot of them know what they are doing and sold their souls to DM.

    I speak as myself even if I am freezoner.

    They are keeping the money so they are stealing.

    Barb
     
  11. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging


    Having calmed down to a panic, and read your posts in a less emotional and more rational light, I do see the point of what you are saying. However, for the broad public to not just look at TC as a freaky side show, but for the real life tragety that it is in fact. We humans have to have specific, easily absorbed instances of abuse to look at. These create revulsion and fire up the desire to expose COS for what it is Doing. Then one can look into it more indepth as one goes along, but the immediacy of the reaction is what fires up the action.

    I have never been in Dafure, but I had a chance to work with some refugee kids from the area, teaching them english and basic CIT, the outrage I felt at these kids having been in a war zone, having seen family obliterated, really made me angry, and spurred me on to do even more proactive work.

    The Lisa McPhearson image and her story is just such a motive for the creation of an outcry against COS.

    Such is my sermon for the day.
     
  12. The point I believe you're missing from our point of view is that we do not wish to attack (or even ADDRESS) why anyone had originally became a part of the organization. I believe it is very safe to say 99.9% joined solely for spiritual guidance and awareness, or self betterment in general. I applaud this effort and respect everyones choice for their own belief system. Their reasons for joining or the beliefs in general are not what we wish to attack, address, skew or belittle. I do not see the benefit in addressing this whatsoever. The goal isn't to sit here and hold each and every victims hand, listen to their particular story, and address each of them on an individual basis. That is simply not possible to do.

    Regarding this supposed "incomplete data" and our "claims of evil", we call them evil and cry of very SPECIFIC murders, very SPECIFIC kidnappings, very specific smear tactics, etc. (its clear to me you do not even care to fully absorb what is presented to you). My personal goal is not to convert ANYONE but to bring AWARENESS. The churches teachings themselves are harmless when you remove all brain washing, group hypnotherapy, OSA, RPF, undying greed, etc. Frankly, the list could go on. These facts my friend, will bring anything but failure.

    I know you do not want to hear this, Alex. You've probably already dismissed everything above. That was made clear the moment I questioned you on chat and your first response to me was to compare Sci to Christianity and the accusations of molestation. It's a traditional tactic that has been slowly nailed into your psyche, deny all you want. I love the sheer irrelevance of such comments. We are not here to say Christianity is better than Scn or vice versa. I am very sorry you do not clearly see this but duly hope you do wake up some time soon. If you can't see this is clearly a problem, gosh, it really makes me wonder what all you've likely been unknowingly coerced into. You may very well have assisted with the disconnection (and/or destruction) of lives and reputations under the false pretense that you were only doing the church's good deed by pushing out the naysayers. I feel confident when I say I've learned too much about the inner-workings of the church to even hesitate to write that. Fair game, right? Why would there be any such policy against naysayers at all? These are important elements which you obviously do not care to consider. I know for a fact I can walk into any place of warship for catholic, baptist, mormon, buddhist, etc. beliefs and openly question them without worrying about consequences. This in itself should be an enormous wake up call to you.

    What anon hopes to shed light on, which it appears you are completely unaware of (or care to ignore) are the dozens (if not hundreds) of stories on this site alone which describe in great detail how their lives were all but ruined when they attempted to leave and/or stray from the "assigned path". How do you ignore such blatantly clear information? Or the suicide notes from members who had their entire financial life left to RUINS and felt it was the ONLY way to bring awareness. They made THEMSELVES martyrs for this cause you so endlessly defend. Not sure how you sleep at night knowing people have given their lives to stop such abuse when you are here only to further its destruction.

    You may want to ignore, disregard and defend the actions of the this mockery of a church--that is fine--and frankly is expected. With any luck, you will one day open your eyes and realize this information isn't some smear tactic, only then I think you will start to wake up.

    As I tried to touch on in our chat, if you have never had any bad experiences in the church, that is absolutely wonderful and I am glad to hear there is actually positivity stemming from it (unless everything you've told me is a lie). However, it is simply impossible for the rest of us to ignore these things. Deny as you might -- what we are presenting is unarguably fact with many credible sources. You cannot ignore Lisa McPherson and I'm thoroughly shocked you are well aware of her case and still support this so obviously corrupt organization. You cannot ignore the purely immoral tactics taken upon Paulette Cooper simply for writing a book. I'm sure you probably have already written ALLLLLL of this off (based on your attitude) as very limited exceptions to your otherwise graciously kind church. "That's only the radicals!" Right? Unfortunately, based on the countless hours of research I've done in the past two weeks, if anything is an exception, it is definitely your experience. And since you seem to want to brush everything off I present, I ask you this Alex: have you ever attempted to walk away from the church?

    ---

    In respects to the JT letter, of course we are not going to write to him like we are scientologists, nor are we able to even conceive the state of mind we should be attempting to address. It is not our intention to step up/down to that level. We want to approach him like every day, normal people who are terrified of what we've learned. Again, we are not trying to attack anyones belief system. We are attacking the unethical and simply immoral practices that are very obviously still continuing today and fully nurtured through the corrupt management.

    I realize the letter is very aggressive, very in-your-face. While I may have personally approached it at a slightly different angle, I think if it were ever to reach JT himself, he would be foolish to immediately disregard it unless as the letter states, "he has completely lost every ounce of rationality".

    I thank those of you who support us. To those of you who exercise more caution, I truly can understand and respect your points of view. Just remember as the letter states, we have no motivation for doing this other than sole concern for many, MANY innocently brainwashed people. It seems a great opportunity for us to actual do something positive and [hopefully] productive in not only our local areas, but world-wide.

    As someone else said, reading the experiences of these obviously kind people only motivates us more to ensure our rally doesn't stop any time soon. You all bring a very personalized element to this and it fuels us vigorously.

    Sorry for the extremely long post.
     
  13. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    What you wrote makes sense to me.
     
  14. Kerry

    Kerry Patron with Honors

    Great post Respectful Anon. Beautiful. Thank you.

     
  15. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging

    I thank those of you who support us. To those of you who exercise more caution, I truly can understand and respect your points of view. Just remember as the letter states, we have no motivation for doing this other than sole concern for many, MANY innocently brainwashed people. It seems a great opportunity for us to actual do something positive and [hopefully] productive in not only our local areas, but world-wide.

    As someone else said, reading the experiences of these obviously kind people only motivates us more to ensure our rally doesn't stop any time soon. You all bring a very personalized element to this and it fuels us vigorously.

    Sorry for the extremely long post.[/QUOTE]

    It is a balanced reply written with a level of intelligence and perspicuity that I have come to appreciate from Respect. It is not too long, it informs and I hope that maybe alex will look, and begin to dismantle the mental construct that he views as Scientology. I know exactly how that is, I viewed the world through the Scientology lens for a very long time, and nothing could have dissauded me from that. It took a number of experiences and some brilliant writing, - a comparative, for me the Scientologist, the book 'My Life in Orange' by Tim Guest - and for me the Sea Org Memebr, Alexander Solzhenitsyn, his book 'The First Circle' was revealing to say the least. I hope that Alex gains a more balanced view eventually.

    thanks.

    JA
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2008
  16. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    As long as you continue to hold me in the image of "innocently brainwashed" you will fail to fully understand the points I make.

    I was readin Solzhenitsyn when it was still being smuggled out of russia, prior to my involvement with Scientology, which began over 30 years ago.

    My main objection, would be that one group of people, who choose to operate from a position of hiding (anon), are trying to dictate how another group of people, THINK.

    And further, they make the attempt in comparitive ignorance.

    But rock on. It will be interesting to watch.

    alex
     
  17. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    First you seem to have missed the fact that I have called for radical changes in the church and even have done so in threads you were in. I doubt you have taken the time to understand my position if you accuse me of defending the church. You seem to have some preconception of me that precludes understanding what I write. I am a scientologist therefore wrong?

    And second, and this will seem inflamatory or offensive to you, but I believe people are ultimately personally responsible for any condition they find themselves in life.

    Those very same people you call martyrs and victims of abuse, created the situations they became the effect of.

    There is no "church of scientology" independent of the people in it. It is not an entity unto itself, but a collection of individuals, and it is the actions of those individuals which has lead to ANY outcome.

    Any victim IS a victim of themselves.

    Now there is a concept that I fully expect you will reject outright, but it is my belief that such an outlook, complete personal responsibility, is ultimately the only viable path to personal liberty. And also the most difficult.

    alex
     
  18. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    What happened to Keith Henson was engineered by the man himself. He tried for years to create the scenario of innocent little keith being attacked by the big bad cult.

    And the best he could do after even fleeing the country, was to be jailed for a few weeks for essentially blocking a sidewalk.

    alex
     
  19. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Will someone please inform the American Internal Revenue Service that the "Church of Scientology" is not "an entity unto itself"...

    The organization of Scientology worked hard to establish itself as a tax exempt corporate entity, and collection of corporate entities, and, in its PR, as a "Church" and as a "religion" - very much in accordance with its founder's cynical "religion angle."

    Yet, when focused upon, or cornered, it becomes, somehow, merely a disparate collection of individuals, who scatter, saying things like, "I don't know nuthin'," or, "I'm for reform (as was Mr. Hubbard in his 1968 'Reform Code', barf...)," and then, out of the other side of the mouth, "You SP, DB, Wog, you got what was coming to you," etc.

    And its not just the organization. The pattern repeats. The same occurs with the subject of Scientology. The subject of Scientology exists, yet it doesn't really. Its many layers and compartments and sneaky little shadowy areas keep moving around, yet its engraved on titanium plates in a vault in the desert. Try to pin it down and you're told to "read a Scientology book." Mention that any particular Scientology book, promoted by Scientology, has negligible relevance to the overall operation or subject and you're encouraged to introvert, and find your own "ruin"; or, perhaps, to become distracted, and "Look at that _____ (anything interesting other than Scientology)"; and if that doesn't work, then comes (the supposedly fear inducing), "What are your crimes?"; and if that doesn't work, Scientology will - per policy - manufacture some crimes for you.

    But straight answers? Scientology doesn't give straight answers.

    Only the most naive in the 'land of Scientology' can possibly provide a straight answer, and only then because such a person doesn't know any better.

    Scientology "handles Humanoids, Wogs, Degraded Beings, Suppressive Persons, Raw Meat," etc.; Scientology does not give straight answers.

    And why should it? It was built according to the pattern of a covert operation.

    "Psychopolitics - the art and science of asserting and maintaining dominion over the thoughts and loyalties of individuals, officers, bureaus, and masses, and the effecting of the conquest of enemy nations through 'mental healing'."

    L. Ron Hubbard, in a secretly authored text, 1955

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=3036&postcount=1
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2008
  20. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    This, ladies and gentleman, IS the linchpin, the core "justification" that explains away the most heinous of behaviors, the criminal acts, the utter depravity of this scientologists viewpoint towards the world.

    Any victim is a victim of themselves.


    My response would be: "If that is true, then what is your humanitarian mission? To make the above fait accompli, or to free individuals from reapeatedly becoming victims of their own flinch?

    Further, doesn't this mean we should ignore ANY claims of persecution by the Church? After all, by their OWN doctrine they are just being victims of themselves.