ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Another Repayment Thread

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Dave B., Mar 14, 2012.

  1. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

    Looking at Burned's thread I've decided to do my own Repayment Thread. The total amount is 57k USD.

    Today is the one year anniversary of my walking up and down Sunset Blvd. blinded by tears, suicidal & having a nervous breakdown because I realised that I'd been lied to, scammed and financially raped by "Church" of $cientology cult & (Sea Org. para-military) members Kirk Steele, Lisa Starkey, Laura Kindermann, of ASHO and Dan Bragin, & Tim Edwards of the IAS. Others include Miriam, (Bright?) IAS & Tony (last name?), public.

    March 13th 2011. Elron's 100th. ironic 'eh?

    I had just come from the so-called Asst. Chaplain's office where the so-called Asst. Chaplain the detestable Lisa Starkey intimated to me to "end cycle". Yeah, that end cycle. How convenient 'eh? I kick off and la-de-da no problems for them. This was a distinct possibility at the time since I was nine days into the Purif. RD and my blood pressure was 215/140. To start it had been high enough, border line normal, so that one local medical doctor refused to sign off on it. So the cult sent me to another who did sign off on it.

    -I don't think I can write the entire story here. There are a lot of details and crazy Scio-shit to my LA sojourn. I'll get down what I can though.-

    A few days later after this epiphany I'm ashamed to admit the so-called Asst. Chaplain the destestable Lisa Starkey talked me out of signing a Routing Form at the time. Yes, she gave me the "your eternity" bit. I was at about 49% "I don't give a fuck, you bastards robbed me", but, there was the other 51% of falling for the cults BULLSHIT.

    I came home to Oregon in April and over the next few months tried to recover my sanity and equilibrium. It was pretty hard but I have to credit my mother for helping me to get most of the way back. It was the most difficult time of my life. I've never really suffered in my life until last year. What also helped was finding ESMB.

    In Sept. 2011 I was feeling good enough to begin to get my money back. Thus began the current comedy. Finding the correct clown, (Adam Ghiorra) in the ASHO circus proved a challenge. But in early Oct. the "communication" via emails began and after a ridiculous amount of passive/agressive behaviour on his part I received a wavier form signed it, notarized it and sent back. After repeatedly inquiring of the status of my money I was finally told my "terminal" is now the CVB and was told to stop bothering ASHO. They've ignored numerous emails, letters, and phone calls regarding how much money I have on account at ASHO. The CVB & IAS have also failed to respond.

    In my last letter to ASHO & the CVB I stated that today March 13th 2012 was the day I seek to get my money back via legal means. There has been plenty of time, since October of 2011, for them to respond to me about my very basic question of how much money I have on account at ASHO. And when I'm going to get it back.

    They are in violation of their own policy letters and agreements with the IRS regarding their 1993 tax exemption. As well as being a horrible corporate citizen who treat customers like shit. A couple weeks ago I obtained a lawyer and now the legal circus begins. Have it your way cult. It's not costing me anything. I would have just went away quietly if you would simply have returned my money that was taken from me. I never would have said a word. Not now. You've created a life long enemy of your cult.

    I've already been to see the local Sheriff and Police chief, they were very interested in my experience with the cult and thanked me for enlightening them with further study material on the cult's history and tactics. Horrified by you, actually. "Church, my ass" was one comment. If you attempt to DA me with law enforcement it will fail.

    Kill me? Couldn't care less, you already tried last year with your "tech". FAIL. Even if you succeed I'll be back.<EDIT MOD 2> So send your down-stat goons. (a little Scio humor).

    By all that's holy, God, I hate you bastards. You robbed me of my dreams, you know what I mean, Kirk Steele. And you too Tim Edwards, You fucking piece of shit.

    See you in court.

    Charles Jeronimo
    Portland, Oregon

    Stevens Creek Mission public Feb. to May 1983
    Sea Org INCOMM LA June 1983 - Jan, 1984
    & Nov. 1984 - Apr. 1985

    free of the cult 1985 - 2011

    ensnared Jan. - April 2011

    FREE MAY 2011 to ETERNITY.


    Can a mod please change my user name to Chuck J.?
    thanks, And glad to meet you. :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 14, 2012
  2. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Church of Scientology is a Con

    Good post Chuck.

    The days are numbered for Scientology that steals dreams. The "Church" of Scientology should be named the Cult of Fraud.
    They defrauded the US State Department, the IRS and 100,000's of individuals I am sure.

    So glad you made it out alive Chuck:thumbsup:
  3. Daisy

    Daisy Patron with Honors

    Good for you, Chuck. Get your money, give the cult the s### they deserve.
  4. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    Go to the press....from what I've seen....they tend to give money back quicker if you are publicly noisy....the noisier the better.

    They gave me money back without me even asking for it because they found out I was talking to their public about their outpoints and deemed me a security risk. :eyeroll:

    I wasn't a security risk until they made me into one with their horse shit.

    They are such idiots.
  5. Freeminds

    Freeminds Bitter defrocked apostate

    Do it. Get your repayment. You're doing more damage to the people who robbed you than any of us can.

    Remember, in the Scientology crime syndicate, money only ever flows uplines. That billion dollars that Miscavige cares so much about, is not to be given back: otherwise he wouldn't be the leader of a billion-dollar cult.

    No: repayments must come from new, local income.

    If Scientology was growing (the scam grew strongly in the 1980s) then no problem: pay the ones who wise up, using the donations of the fresh meat who come after them. In the world of investments, this is called a Ponzi Scheme. It works... until you no longer have growth. Scientology doesn't have growth. They don't even have the luxury of stagnation.

    So: they're probably selling a couple of books a week at your org, and maybe an introductory course. The long-time victims have been bled dry (remortgaged house, maxed out credit cards, forced to join staff) and anything they do still manage to donate is probably for the IAS scam anyway - the money doesn't stay with the org.

    Then you show up and want a repayment.

    Their annual income doesn't even come close to what you deserve to get back. Not even if they failed to pay staff, pay their electricity bill... and we've seen it done. And Ron's vaunted 'tech' (don't sell patent combs; do more Scientology) doesn't work because in the 21st century, most people have heard about Scientology, and won't touch it.

    The Midget has huge cash reserves, but won't lift a finger to help...

    To get your money, you're going to need a good lawyer, and a certain amount of patience. You have been given then run-around. This means you have a grievance, and a case. Get legal help. Expect to be cajoled: come back to Scn! Expect to be intimidated. The Scientology system (more of Ron's tech) is to never pay bills on time. Delay, and delay, and some people give up and go away.

    Meanwhile, though, you have the power to make the org that robbed you go downstat. Possibly irreparably so. There simply isn't enough money coming in, now, to pay off one person who wakes up.

    For a two-pronged attack, also keep your local media informed. Make Scientology look bad enough, and they're more likely to pay up the money. Your money. So don't just tell us - tell some journalists. Or do whatever your lawyer advises.

    The time for fighting this on your own is past.

    Glad you got out; glad you're OK. Best wishes...

  6. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

  7. Burned

    Burned Patron


    And the horse they rode in on!:clap:
  8. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I'm interested to hear more about the "end cycle" bit, if you want to tell. I assume it was a medical problem doing the Purif, in which case I am also sure David Love (posts here as Intelligence) would also be interested. This sort of thing needs to be documented to try and protect others.

    The distress and betrayal at leaving in circumstances like yours is immense, and I am so glad you have made it through and are fighting back!
  9. Intelligence

    Intelligence Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes, I would be very interested in the Puif medical details. I am sending another package of evidence dox to the Ministry of Health and Social Services this week, and would be happy to include these details.

  10. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

  11. Outethicsofficer

    Outethicsofficer Silver Meritorious Patron

    Bullshit and they know it! Dave B good on you for keeping this alive, one question that still eludes answer for me at least is; if this money is in a trust then when do we as members get to see an accounting of where it's been used...surely an annual report to the membership would be the least of the requirements of such 'Trusts' ?????
  12. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hi Charles, your story sounds close to mine with some of the same characters. I believe it's Ted Bragen, and yeah Tim Edwards. Calling them shit gives shit a bad name. I'm sure deep inside those two and the other goons there wish they could only die in their sleep. It must be one of the bleakest things imaginable being an ias dreg.

    I wish I had some advice. Maybe give Ford Greene a call. He's an atty who lives in the bay area. Barry Van Sickle was doing some stuff against the cult but I don't know maybe he gave it up because I haven't heard his name in a while. Good luck and keep us posted.
  13. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

    Thanks. I have an attorney, we've already sent the first letters which will be ignored probably. Exploring media options as well. I'm not going away or staying quiet.

    Drafting an amusing reply to the IAS's Mislav Raos at the moment.

    re: Ted Bragen & Tim Edwards.

    ".... "morose delectation" ("delectatio morosa" in Latin), meaning "the habit of dwelling with enjoyment on evil thoughts".[8] The medieval church taught that morose delectation was a sin.[9][10] French writer Pierre Klossowski maintained that the appeal of sadism is morose delectation.[11][12]

    I have to say I've indulged in a fair bit of this with that dynamic duo.
  14. Lout Zoo

    Lout Zoo Patron

    A friend told me that a group of people asking for refunds gathered outside the LA org recently protesting and they got their refunds. Can anyone confirm this? :confused2:I am currently pursuing refunds from AOLA and FSO, FSSO and Flag Crew orgs totalling over $50k. :duh: AOLA has been giving me a run around for over a year. I got approval for the refund but AOLA alter-ised the amount and tried to offer me less. Once I got their itemized accounting I proved they owed me more than I was asking for. They don't communicate with me any more. I am ready to sue too. I actually wrote a letter to the International Justice Chief asking them to help me handle it. It is actually church policy that you must go through them first and get an answer from them before you can sue a church for payment. This includes not scientologists. I would like to get a class action suit going or a major protest. I don't think they will pay up until they get some bad PR or feel a real legal pinch. The big question is: How do we organize a big enough group to create a big enough effect on these bleepard's?
  15. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

    Apparently here is at least one place where they stash the IAS/Miscabbage loot. Got it from another thread on ESMB. I wrote to this guy a week ago.

    Attention: George Praag
    P.O. BOX 3335
  16. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

    You're lucky. You have an itemised accounting. ASHO wont even give me that. They have me on complete ignore. May have been my objecting to being financially mugged by ASHO reg Kirk Steele and my screaming yelling blow-up at the D of P's office, (Sorry, Ron D. but you're will-fully and knowingly clueless which is an overt of omission.)

    Previous to all this cult drama I was a pretty laid-back guy, so apparently they think I still am regarding letting them defraud me of $57,750.16. Wrong.

    Lout Zoo feel free to PM me if you have any media ideas, I'm looking to make a big messy all-over-the-public-airwaves-& print impact.
  17. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Do you live in LA? You could make up some signs, get Magoo or some other LA exes, or some anons and/or hire some of the guys standing out front of Home Depot, notify all the LA print and tv media of the time and date of the protest and picket the org(s) involved. Lots of signs saying stuff like Scientology won't give refunds, AOLA doesn't pay their bills etc. I'd suggest doing the protest at least starting 15-20 min before lunch and do it all through lunch till 15 - 20 min after wards - this way all the people that use the canteen will be forced to either watch you or go else where. But it should get their attention.

    Or from 11-2:30 on thursday - that would make an impact if they were too afraid to leave the orgs on stat day. Another venue is the LRH exhibit at the HGB - OSA is right in that building.

    BTW - be sure to video the hell out of it, if for nothing else, to protect against bogus assault charges - and post it on you-tube as well.

  18. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thank you for coming forward and sharing your story. :bigcry:It touched me very much!

    The guy from IAS is Ted Braggin and he is a psychotic scumbag! :angry:

    You are doing fantastic and good for you for standing up for yourself. We all support you and it sounds like you will win. Thanks for exposing that rotten, evil, disgusting group. They shatter dreams and ruin lives. There crimes are many and there help is minimal. :grouch:

    When you are ready, feel free to share your story in detail. You are helping thousands by posting your story thus far. thank you again!

    We will all win in the end and anyone who is not leaving this Cult and continuing to create crimes in the best interest of their justifications will have to answer to their conscious.

    You are loved by all of us here. Sanity is outside of the walls of that vicious cult.

  19. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

    My letter to Mislav Raos of the IAS.

    Mislav Raos,

    Thank you for responding to my letter and thank you for cancelling my I.A.S. membership.

    In your letter you state: “.... in accordance with the rules of the IAS and the US IAS Members' Trust, membership fees and donations are not refundable.”

    I feel compelled to inform you that the above being the case, then you may want to file a Knowledge Report and launch an Internal Investigation. Because several former members HAVE received refunds. Evidently someone in the I.A.S. IS refunding former members membership fees and donations to them in violation of I.A.S. policy.

    This is public record, easily available to the curious on the Internet and in court records.

    I realise as a Sea Org member you are most likely not allowed unsupervised Internet or general media access and are not aware of this easily provable fact. I would rather believe that than to believe you are lying to me. But if you are lying to me I would not be surprised. In my experience Scientology seems to be built on lies. It's built on a mountain range of lies.

    When others have received much larger refunds, I.A.S. intransigence over refunding the relatively small sum of $10,450 USD is unacceptable.

    I will have to add my voice to the din of voices publicly complaining about the "Church" of Scientology's violations of their own repayment and refund policies. Not to mention many other basic Human Rights violations, Up until now I have not gone public. You leave me no choice. Each voice adds more weight and more credibility. Mine is severe because I almost died of a stroke at the hands of your ASHO & LA DAY staff, following "Church" policy, practising medicine and practising it incorrectly.... without a license.

    The I.A.S. supposedly being a different corporate entity does not absolve the I.A.S. or you of any wrong doing. I hope you personally someday soon extricate yourself from the cult.


    Charles Jeronimo
    Portland, Oregon
  20. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    I like that, I can't wait to see how he responds, if he does.

    Keep beating this drum,it's making a great sound.:thumbsup: