arnie on the meter

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by rose10, Apr 19, 2019.

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  1. rose10

    rose10 Patron

  2. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

  3. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I don't believe that the e-meter is a "hypnotic trance" detector.

    When a person can test/demonstrate that an F/N needle, in auditing, is always due to some hypnotic effect then I will change my opinion. (And we would have to define what we mean by hypnotic brain state.)

    My guess is that it is due to brain endorphin effects that also affect skin resistance. No hypnosis.
  4. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I think there may be a very fine line between someone being in a 'hypnotic trance' and someone almost going into coma ... due to being bored stiff but obliged to try and appear interested 'in their own case' ... lol!

    Auditing is as boring as anything I have ever endured in my life, but there was no hypnosis involved, none at all.
  5. rose10

    rose10 Patron

    Hmm but a light trance i think is possible when you have to close ur eyes to find a picture and all sorts of stuff comes up like when you are about to fall asleep...when you are thinking of something in the past in a concentrated way you often lose time ..lile if you are driving and thinking and get from a to b without realising ..apparently thats all light trance and therefore suggestible...
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  6. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    This subject of hypnosis comes up occasionally on this forum and we discuss it and it goes away again until the next time.

    I seem to remember someone posting a video of a hypnotist explaining what hypnosis is. He described it as "fixed attention". In other words like watching a TV or reading a book or listening to music.

    Are we suggestible on these occasions? I don't think so. I had hundreds of hours of auditing and over the course of my 15+ years in scientology I consistently refused to join staff or the sea org and refused many other requests which often landed me in trouble. I was obviously not hypnotised.

    To me it's just that a person who has good intentions can be easily hoodwinked when an organisation like the CoS lies to them on a daily basis.
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  7. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    In that case some people could potentially be spending most of their lives in a light trance (watching TV would do it, any form of travel could too ... especially by train or bus, going to the movies, chatting to a friend in a relaxed atmosphere, drinking alcohol, walking the dog, gardening, reading a book ... typing on a computer perhaps?) followed by about 6 or 7 hours of sleep.

    I don't equate being relaxed and/or not being fully in the moment with a trance like state and being suggestable.

    Aside from that though, what some people seemed to be talking about (Arnie was one) wasn't a light trance, it was something else entirely and Arnie went on to mention (often) that only intelligent people could actually be hypnotised ... which (to me) was about as laughable as anything I have ever heard and the reason I posted my true thoughts on the subject (this was a few years ago when people were agreeing that auditing was a form of hypnotism).
  8. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    The hypnosis seemed to be achieved early on when we read those largely indecipherable books, often starting with Dianetics, and we went into a mild trance whereby many of us became open circuits to each and everything else that Hubbard wrote. It all just went into our minds, bypassing our analytical filters. Then, for those who escaped the mind numbing effects from the books there were the TR's...
    There we no hypnotic elements to the auditing commands that I ever noticed unless sheer excruciating boredom could be considered hypnotic to any extent.
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  9. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I think the whole idea that any hypnosis was involved was because the idea that 'only the intelligent could be hypnotised' appealed.

  10. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Yeah, I think most of us entered the realm of L. Ron as pre-hypnotised subjects anyway. Pre-hypnotised by our grade school through high school educations where we were required to absorb every shred of dribble that spewed from the mouth of an adult who stood before us as our teacher who had the power to decide our grade based upon how much we could parrot. A grade that determined what good will, or lack of, that we'd expect to receive from our parents based upon our grades. Many of us got in fresh out of high school and our lower levels were even called "grades".
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  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I never thought of the grades of scientology going up the grades as you say and never quite connected those dots with high school, but Hubbard certainty paralleled it. I mean I went to grade school, it was grades 1-5 back in the day, and onto high school, grades 6-8, and then college.

    If one remembers the old hubbard scientology course known as HQS, everybody was supposed to do it. In that course there a TR known as TR7 or high school indoctrination. Read on Screen EN_CS_CR/EN_CS_CR_Hubbard_Qualified_Scientologist__HQS.pdf

    It's on page 70 of the pdf.

    But for me, and as ITYIWT, TE, PG have said, I never felt hypnotized with auditing.

    I think, the only hypnosis that occurs is not hypnosis but agreement. Hubbard said the most important part of the ARC triangle was communication. But not true, the most important part was getting agreement. And that's all Hubbard tried to do. I'm not saying the ARC triangle is true, I'm only saying getting agreement is true to get a group going or become something you are not, or be something you are not........

    There have been lots and lots of attempts by Hubbard and the COS is to get agreement, but only a small minority of the population have agreed.

    We wus the suckers in the end. But I'm OK, we all get suckered.
  12. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    According To my readings on the subject of hypnosis trances you are correct. The driving on the highway, is often given as an exemple of light trance AND also light dissociation.

    Although I don't know if such hypnosis techniques were used with auditing, but I must admit the pre engeneered design of lists, events and implants that we must have agreed upon...and considering their absolute and total stoopid bullshit that we, wise people, finally believed and paid hundreds of thousands of $ to be relieved of their impact on our pseudo spiritual being...isn't quite clear to me.​

    I'd say there is, certainly , suggestion and mind manipulation involved in implanting such non-sense Hubtard lunatic beliefs...

    Otherwise we would have said very early:
    " fuck off retards.."

    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  13. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    It is well known among stage hypnotists that there are certain 'types' who are easy to hypnotise. They are not intelligent types. They are mostly alcoholics, neurotics and similar personality types.
  14. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Thanks @Wilbur, I hadn't heard of that but I do recall reading this (below) when hypnotism first started being seriously discussed here a few years ago, it confirmed my bias nicely (lol) and certainly made more sense than anything to do with superior intelligence did.

    The reference to imaginary playmates made me smile too, for no particular reason ...


  15. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Wow! I'd forgotten about those upper indoc TR's as I skipped doing the HQS course.
    TR7 is certainly one of those TR's that are all about controlling others and being controlled by others, the very cornerstones of Scientology.
    It is either absurdly coincidental or of ultimate contrivance and malice that Hubbard would name it "high school indoctrination" so as to make us accept it as a mere continuation of the mandatory mind fuck that was our public educations.
  16. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Though it may sound off the wall but the masturbation that most of us began to engage in when we hit puberty was to a certain degree - self hypnosis, where one learned to delude one's inner self that there was a certain partner engaging in sexual contact with us when in fact they were not.
    It used to make me blush when I'd find myself face to face with a girl that I'd fantasized about, wondering "did she pick up on any of that?"
    One became increasingly adept at creating these flights of fancy as it affected how great of an orgasm we had.
    From that we layered on other, often non sexual fantasies and Hubbard, himself an infamous masturbator, learned how to spin fantasies for others as a sci-fi writer.
    Then, once he was certain of his prowess, began to spin yarns where we were all fallen gods and that only he had the fully mapped out path to full restoration of state.
    He taught us all to follow him into the stars of our own self hypnotizing imaginations as, like him, mega jerk offs.
    But we've jumped off that train by now so it's all too easy, though possibly painful, to see in hindsight.
    But life goes on...
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  17. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Yes, that's why I've always thought labelling someone a 'wanker' was the height of hypocrisy.
    Men, that is. Ladies of course don't engage in such beastliness.
  18. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Of course! :D
    We would never have such required fantasy and imagination talents...
  19. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Creative imagination has never played much of a role in my fapping fantasies. Normally they'd be re-runs of previous encounters with a favourite partner.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  20. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    as as a true boy
    and it must go as fast as 1-2-3 go - done
    since the football game is about to start.

    Yes, was just about to be TMI
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019