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Bent Corydon talks about "L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman"

Discussion in 'Scientology-related Videos' started by pineapple, Jul 4, 2018.

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  1. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    I think I posted this video once before, but I can't find it now and it has far fewer views than it deserves, so I'm posting it now under "Scientology-related Videos." Here's Bent Corydon talking about "L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman" on TV in 1988.

     
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  2. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Here Bent "debates" Heber Jentzsch, also in 1988. Heber does the usual scn lies and half-truths and interrupts constantly. Video quality is poor in spots.

     
  3. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    IMO, Bent partially woke up after the infamous Mission Holder's conference.
    Then he joined the Scio Logos indies (mission building sign in downtown Riverside changed to ScioLogos.)

    I don't remember if he finally ditched involvement in ScioLogos by 1988.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  4. If judged purely on debate skills, I'd vote for Heber.
     
  5. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I wonder if @Karen#1 has any comments about this. :)
     
  6. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Deleted, double photo in error.
     
  7. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    I will never say anything derogatory about my former husband Heber.
    He went from one cult (FLDS Breakaway polygamy cult from Mormon Church "Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints into the Scn cult.
    He was brutalized by his father with electric shock cattle prods as a child for not meeting his quota of work in the fields. His 51 brothers and sisters were used as a work force not unlike the RPF.
    He was absolutely set-up from childhood years to be ambushed into a cult with a guru.
    He has lived in SP Hole for 9 years, the dungeon prison camp and was denied all rights to be a parent and to have any kind of life with Alexander Jentzsch who only saw him 11x in 15 years mostly for 2.5 hours. Heber was brutalized by El Chappo Miscavige numerous times
    He is now 83 years old and having had a major stroke, cannot sit up straight and has a Sea Org member in full time attendance. He cannot walk.
    The fact that he did donkey videos back in the day is of no consequence to me.
    Heber will always have a place in my heart.

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  8. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    To my thinking Heber set the gold standard as spokesperson. I have to wonder if Scientology molded Heber to it's standard as spokesperson or did Heber model all spokespeople for Scientology thereafter? But in this interview the impression that I'm left with is that Scientology is highly defensive, argumentative, deflective, obfuscating and paranoid and the constant thing about holding up Scientology books was culty and frenetic like a late night product for TV pitch. Maybe my impression is colored by what I know now and maybe audiences back then weren't so cynical? Somehow I think it isn't just me.

    Heber clearly is self confident in his position but self confidence in the face of damning and convincing charges also doesn't look good. To the casual observer that's fanaticism. He didn't make a good case for Scientology. He didn't explain why it should be valued or supported and just claiming it does wonderful things doesn't fly. Where is the evidence of it? Where are their selfless charity programs and scholarships? Critics consistently point to Scientology's practice of "Dead Agenting" people by investigating or stalking them so they can dig up anything to publicly destroy their reputation instead of dealing with the facts of the matter and this interview exemplified dead agenting. It can be held up as a model of dead agenting by the best of the best in Heber's time confirming the charges of dead agenting as an official practice implemented from the very top of the organization.

    Miscavige gave it a shot in 1992 and never did it again. It is a completely untenable position. All the policy and training that they must do makes them look unnatural and culty. It's just really bad optics, and this was before everything could be fact checked and countered in minute detail on the internet virtually in real time. No, I think their best strategy is to stay completely off TV and for the most part they seem to agree using over edited material, contrived CGI, with paid actors, highly controlled venues and lawyers instead of a stable official spokesperson.

    If given a choice would Scientology prefer that this interview between Bent and Heber be available on the internet or completely scrubbed? My guess is they would choose scrubbed so in other words - another fail.



    Scientology leader, David Miscavige, interviewed by by Ted Koppel Live on ABC Nightline show, 1992. This 90-minute segment interview earned an Emmy Award.

     
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  9. Scout

    Scout Patron

    Thank you Pineapple. Bent did a good job except he didnt establish his credibilty; he was an ot7 and highly trained. That never came out. Good seeing him again though.
     
  10. Scout

    Scout Patron

    I'd vote for Bent. But he was operating with a handicap: did you know mustaches make you appear less trustworthy? Especially if you smile a lot.
     
  11. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Yeah. He clearly hadn't had much training in being a slime-ball lawyer-type, and so was unprepared for the tactics used against him by those who HAD been trained in that.
     
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  12. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I thought Bent did fine. He got his responses in and kept his composure but the interviewer let Heber talk over him and disrupt it. On one hand it wasn't fair to Bent but on the other it gave Heber enough rope to draw him out and let the audience see what you have to be to be a spokesperson for the COS.

    That has to be a soul crushing post. Here is a vid of Mike trying to navigate it before he woke.

     
  13. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Yeah. I think watching that video is a good object lesson: ignore what people say, and look at what they DO. If I didn't know Scientology, it would have been very easy to have been taken in by what Mike Rinder was saying there. But you only have to look at Tommy Davis in that John Sweeney clip, to start asking yourself "What kind of religious organisation would behave like that?" and "What has to happen to a BBC reporter in order to get into that state?" then to conclude "Not any kind of organisation that I would want to be a member of".
     
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  14. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Is this vid with snippets of lawyer Monique Yingling the last example of a TV interview with an official Scientology representative answering questions in the capacity of a spokesperson in an uncontrolled venue?

     
  15. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I was not able to find any TV interview with Karin Pouw. Has she ever done one?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karin_Pouw

    Karin Pouw is a French-born[4] American official of the Church of Scientology International.[5] Since 1993,[6] she has been the Director of Public Affairs, representing the Church as its international spokesperson.[7] In 2000 the Los Angeles Times reported that she was a member of the Church of Scientology's Office of Special Affairs (OSA).[8]
    (snip)
     
  16. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    It was obvious that, after Miscavige took over and Hubbard was gone, Heber's day as the "President of the Church of Scientology" were numbered.

    With Hubbard having "causatively discarded his body," Miscavige couldn't have been pleased with the frequency of people (mostly "wogs") thinking Heber was the leader of Scientology.

    It's not surprising that, these days, Scientology Inc. has a vice President but no President.

    As I recall, Scientology Inc. had sued Bent for calling Heber "a professional liar," and from two jurisdictions to boot, so two lawsuits.

    An attorney asked me to do some "paralegal" work to show that Heber was indeed a professional liar, and I used Heber's 1988 (re tred) President of the Church of Scientology check sheet as a basis for that research, compilation, and analysis work.

    The President of the C of S was a Public Relations post, yet whoever was President would have to also pretend, in a convincing way, that he was an executive. During Hubbard's time, of course, the story was that Hubbard was not involved with "Church" finances or management, so the idea of having a President who posed as a (or even the) senior executive was desirable.

    With Hubbard gone, and Miscavige desiring recognition as the leader (boss) of Scientology, that changed.

    An uneasy situation.

    In any event, the post of "President" required some executive or organizational knowledge (for show), but mostly PR knowledge, and included familiarity with various confidential PR, Propaganda, and even some Intel Hubbard writings.

    Here's the check sheet:

    http://www.xenu.net/archive/go/heberhat.htm
     
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  17. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    The post check sheet for president of CSI is interesting in itself. AKH = Admin Know How as I recall. To be fair, The Art of War was starting to be a popular trendy item on corporate reading lists around 1988 but to the casual observer this should look like they are preparing for their version of the Crusades and this is Spy School 101.
     
  18. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    actually I think John McMaster did, Heber was second.
     
  19. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    -snip-
    Hubbard's confidential instructions were that the erupting volcano on 'Dianetics' was part of "R6" and would re-stimulate "wogs" just enough to make them obedient.

    Seeing the cover, "wogs" were supposed to automatically accept anything Heber said.
     
  20. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Good point. And there were some others like David Gaiman and Jane Kember who did public interviews.