ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Bent Corydon talks about "L. Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Madman"

Discussion in 'Scientology-related Videos' started by pineapple, Jul 4, 2018.

View Users: View Users
  1. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    The author Stewart Lamont met Heber in the course of writing his book "Religion Inc.", and devoted most of a chapter to him; Lamont clearly liked him. He talked a lot about radiation and, if I remember rightly, credited Scientology with curing him of the effects of the nuclear tests that had been conducted in Utah when Heber was younger.

    On the subject of Miscavige and TV, I recall someone on here (Dave B?) saying that he doubted we'd ever see Miscavige on TV again because it would be impossible for him to come out of the interview looking at all good; from memory he said that "the sleaze factor would be off the charts". I think he's been proven right and staying off TV is Miscavige's and Scientology's least bad option (at least from their point of view).
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  2. CaliMule

    CaliMule Work Hard and Bray

    By the time of this interview Heber was no longer in a position to handle PR his way, which was to the damage of the church and the advantage of its adversaries.

    "Back in the day" Heber had excellent working relationships with many newsmen because he understood they were thinking and informed people who'd already seen plenty of flim-flamery, tricky word games, unsupported puffery, etc. and aren't impressed by it. "Give and take" rather than each side claiming 100% truth and demonizing the other side impresses them much more. Heber projected confidence that, at least in net balance, he was on the better side of the point and could say why. Also, while I never had 1-on-1 face time with him, when I heard him speak live he showed a good sense of humor.

    Bent deserves some credit for bravely breaking away to establish an independent group, but frankly his character really needed some kind of redemption of that sort to even things out or perhaps somehow make him seem a good and honest sort of person.
     
  3. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    "Back in the day," most people, including most newsmen, didn't know what Scientology really was. They didn't know how it really operated.

    All the dirty PR tactics, the using of "confessions" obtained under duress, the twisting of the truth, and the condemning of former members for actions encouraged and condoned by the cult, and still practiced (secretly) by the cult, were done "back in the day."

    _______________​

    The cult spokesman accuses an ex member, essentially: "You, ex member, behaved like a member of a cult!"

    Ex-cultist: "Yes, I was a member of a cult and did cult things."

    Cult spokesman: "Ah hah!"

    Ex- cultist: "I left the cult and am helping people by exposing it; on the other hand, you, cult spokesman, are still a member of a cult doing cult things."

    Cult's spokesman: "Doh!"

    [​IMG]



    ______________​


    What was done to Paulette Cooper was an application of L. Ron Hubbard's PR, Propaganda, and (covert) Intelligence tech. This tech was developed, mostly, in the 1950s and 1960s.

    ___________​

    The FBI arrested Paulette Cooper in the early 1970s. Her life became a hell.

    Many years later, by accident, she was exonerated.

    What motivated the FBI to raid several Scientology locations in 1977 was not anything to do with Paulette Cooper, or any of Scientology's other victims in the private sector or inside Scientology. The raids were solely motivated by Scientology's meddling with government files.

    ___________​

    On the PR front, when the "fit hit the shan," back in 1980, after the court ordered release of previously secret Scientology documents, Scientology went on the widely viewed American television program, '60 Minutes', with two PR representatives, one dressed as a minister in clerical collar, insisting that the actions against Paulette Cooper were merely the result of "some overzealous members protecting their religion," and that L. Ron Hubbard had nothing to do with it.

    Part of the program from 1980 - "Reverend" Whitman, and spokesman Gaiman can be seen beginning at 2:00:


    At 6:03 a panel of successful "public" Scientologists are questioned
    about what was done to Paulette Cooper.​


    Then, from 1985, from 1:48 -2:12, "Reverend" Heber Jentzsch compares Paulette Cooper, writing a little paperback book, with the Japanese attack of Pearl Harbor, and then quotes from the Bible:

     
  4. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Could you explain this remark, @CaliMule? What are you trying to say here?
     
  5. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Agreed. Their best strategy would be to go utr. The Super Bowl ads are going to become such a flap drawing negative attention to themselves that they will have to stop. As far as I know SMP has yet to make any meaningful inroads into the public sector and I'm guessing they have the same problem overcoming the creepy factor and resulting backlash.

    They must be so conflicted over the position of spokesperson. All of Hubbard's policy tells them to get in the face of reporters, that reporters already have an anti story and they are only there to confirm it. Maybe they had some success with that kind of antagonistic approach in the early days but as far as I can tell everywhere it's been tried it's worked against them. Post the 77 raids and the St. Petersburg Times expose that came on the heels of it they were effectively dead agented themselves. The only way they could skate is if the interviewer hadn't done any meaningful research which was now readily available. Heber's job must have been a nightmare after that. Then LRH died and the power struggle began. A lot of people Heber would have worked with closely were leaving and being tossed under the bus. He must have seen his number coming up. Both Hubbard and Miscavige were intolerant and mistrustful of anyone who could challenge their authority, become too recognized as THE representative of Scientology. Heber would have seen how Bill Franks was exploited and abused as a "lifetime" figurehead. They still needed their spokespeople to be clued into all the dirty secrets so they could handle and deflect in an interview and not be caught unprepared but that made them indispensable and a huge security risk if they defected. Enter the internet, and now everything can be fact checked in real time. For a brief moment in the convergence of all these things Miscavige probably felt that he was the only person who fit all these requirements but still even he couldn't take the heat. It should have been obvious that dodging Xenu was now an impossibility. Scientology was permanently branded as a UFO cult and the only way he could deny it was to deny the existence of OT III and up, and a lot of other publicly available material like History of Man, thereby confirming that they are bald face liars to any Scientologists who knew anything about the OT Levels. If they so easily lie about that on national TV then what else are they so easily lying about? The best response he could come up with was that Xenu was equivalent to the story of the Virgin Mary. That ol policy on advertising positioning gets them in trouble yet again. After that I think spokesman essentially became a black ops operative trying to destroy the opposition without having to become too public and facing awkward questions.

    They really needed someone like Leah but that would only work up to the point where she figured out what was really going on and then all those same qualities that would make a perfect spokesperson gets turned around against them. Enter The Aftermath.

    The history of Scientology spokespeople leading up to the quandary in which they now find themselves is fascinating and tragic and explains perfectly why a lawyer who can provide attorney client privilege and who can be fired without repercussions is the only official spokesperson they can ever have again who would dare do a TV interview like this. But lawyers have a horrible reputation and most people probably assume that, like the mafia, if you are going through a lawyer in a TV interview you have something to hide. So if you are going to use a lawyer you better use one that looks really really good on TV - but is there such a personable lawyer who will represent Scientology on national TV or will there be something about them that is unavoidably off-putting and characteristic of lawyers who take ethically questionable clients without moral equivocation?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...trusted-professions-infographic/#69295ac665b5

    Screen Shot 2019-02-08 at 12.44.06 PM.jpg
     
    screamer2 likes this.
  6. CaliMule

    CaliMule Work Hard and Bray

    [justify] Bent Corydon was as complicit in the Scientology racket as anyone who lived on the gravy train side of it rather than the near starvation side of it was. We all know a certain treatise on moral philosophy which says:

    "That was mean!" Alice said indignantly. "Then I like the Carpenter best—if he didn't eat so many as the Walrus."
    "But he ate as many as he could get," said Tweedledum.
    Alice in Wonderland


    I point to https://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/walrus.html for those who need time, place, form and event for just how young and naive, but fat, oysters are lured into being meals.

    You can find information right on this site alone that show just how many of the tactics used to exploit the public and staff, up through Sea Org members enslaved for LRH's wealth, comfort, and prestige, are replicated by the supposedly oppressed mission holder.

    Threads on this site discussing Riverside Mission, his fiefdom, include:

    1. Bait and Switch Recruiting

    "The conditions of my joining staff were that I would get auditing up through Grade IV. Ha. That never happened! After I joined staff THIS was quickly changed to training up through Level IV. I just accepted this (and I was young and naive) as the greatest good etc. "

    2. The Carpenter Ate Less Than The Walrus, But As Many As He Could Nonetheless

    Here forced to blow ASHO in defiance of its authority in order to comply with Mission authority. The mission sought its own benefit by placing someone in an impossible situation with other Scientology related people or entities that they have no clout to resolve. It was nasty and oppressive even if there was a higher up with even more ability to be nasty and oppressive. "Shit flows downhill" and it doesn't necessarily matter to either slightly uphill nor much higher uphill that they are shitting on you to motivate contrary behavior.

    3. More Shit Flows Downhill

    A "senior sup" has the clout to dispense with a lesser vassal's sleep time to preserve his own TV time: "Steve came to my room and woke me up to get me to give Peter a touch assist WHILE Steve returned to watch TV."

    This shit flows downhill aspect goes right on up to the mission holder, and the fact that even higher powers also shit on the mission holder is a distraction from the main point an observer with a mind for justice should note.

    4. And All Things Good Flow Uphill, Not Stay Downhill Where It Is Being Ripped Off

    I DO remember one thing - she saw that we had bought a new turn-table to play records on our cheap stereo system. She finally told us that if we had enough money to buy a new turn-table then we had enough money to buy Scientology services. This was ridiculous.[/justify]

    [justify]Before this, while on staff, someone told us the SAME THING when we bought an engagement and wedding ring set from a PAWN SHOP (this was really cheap).

    Have anything good for yourself, above subsistence level, that you are holding on to rather than allowing the cash value of it flow uplines to seniors? Then you are ripping them off by sitting on it. This includes ALL money that could be flowing to the mission holder, and which he will give a 10% cut of the action to his own seniors in turn.

    You are just RIPPING OFF Bent Corydon and LRH, or Martin Samuels and LRH, or Alan Walter and LRH, when you sit on cash or spend it upon above-subsistence-level nonnecessities like second hand wedding rings or entertainment devices.

    5. But If Uphill Is Me And Thee, It Couldn't Happen To A Nicer Two

    "My dad came in and talked to Jeff Kovak, my registrar, who explained that I was working through some issues from my parent's divorce, which pushed the right button in my dad perhaps, and he ponied up $1600. I remember Jeff smoking cigars. He bought his wife a fur coat."

    6. But Hey, "No Convictions" - Get It?

    One thing Bent doesn't really cover fully in his book is the extent of the loan falsifications that were going on around that time. I remember at one point I was assigned to take calls from the loan officers at the banks and confirm phony employment / income data on the loan apps. It was rampant.[/justify]

    [justify]Wait, what? Good guy Bent doesn't admit to why a big blowup between him and the church occurred? Something about systemic criminal fraud that led to a famous police raid? It was all, after all, the doings of some high school kid???

    I remember going to treasury to get paid for the week, and walking away with, like, $22 or something. So on weekends we would go out and pull tires from under mobile homes out in the Mojave desert and bring them back to the factory in Hemet to make enough money to make ends meet, so we could afford to work those 12-14 hour days the remainder of the week.

    Well at least the kid chooses honest labor to support himself when people like Bent are paying him minor ducat slave wages to commit systemic defrauding of lenders. Why is this high school kid such a better person than Bent Corydon???

    7. And Hey, Germans are Very Civilized[/justify]

    [justify]Not only were the staff being finanical canniblised but Bent would take a large potion of the money and send it to germany to invest in gold.

    . . .

    Bent and Mary drove Mercedes, had staff estates build him a custom home that would accomindate short people gave two shits how the rest of staff were doing . . . But bent had top of line mercedes.I think she up graded to a brand new toyota. point being they had nice cars and most staff either had no car or drove around in shit boxes.

    Yup, that's the Bent Corydon we know, though not from his own self-approving book.

    There's an 18 page thread that I've only culled about the first three pages of there, giving an accurate picture of good ol' Bent's time serving as massa over the slaves in Riverside, California.

    8. Learn How To Beat The Meter And Win

    In his famous book Bent Croydon admits to how he kept his status in Scientology via crafty deception ("fool the meter") that he knew how to pull off because of his Saint Hill education days. He managed to dodge full responsibility for embroiling Scientology in a criminal fraud scam used to fund his staff members financial needs by this. At the end of the day Bent leaves himself owner of the Riverside Mission building, very valuable, while slave labor every bit as wearisome and onerous as any in the Sea Org paid for it, basically.
    [/justify]
    WHY DO SOME PROSPER AND SOME WEEP?
    [justify]
    What accomplished this situation of massa in his white colonnaded mansion and the slaves creating that wealth cooped up in their shacks? The threats of family disconnection, extreme and pernicious harassment if you speak out, heavy ethics being as nearby as the local org which the mission will apply to if you act like a human being in your relations with the mission, and in short the full panoply of threats that protect missions just as much as they protect any Scientology affiliate.

    Bent acquired wealth which still lasts and status which lasted a while by taking advantage of the muzzle end of the Scientology shotgun being pointed at people he dealt with. He needed to do some redeeming act, like break free as an independent, to have hope of being regarded as a good and honest person.[/justify]
     
  7. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Well, I guess I asked a good question. You certainly had a lot to say in reply.

    Bent at least woke up and played a big part in exposing scn. His book woke a lot of other people up. And it took a lot of guts. That goes a long way with me toward expiating whatever sins he was guilty of.

    How many of us here can say we did as much?
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
    Veda, CaliMule and TheOriginalBigBlue like this.
  8. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    [​IMG]

    Calimule paints a picture which is not entirely accurate, but even accepting every word unquestioningly, the same could have been said for virtually any other successful Mission holder. These activities were condoned by Scientology "up lines" and reflected "LRH Intention." The Mission holders were playing by his rules, and were fanatical members of his cult.

    When Hubbard secretly moved into Riverside county around 1978, he had been driven around to examine various Scientology properties which he felt were rightly his. That's when mission holders Ray Kemp and Bent Corydon became targets. Four years later, all Mission holders became targets in the same way. Hubbard wanted their stuff.

    Chapter 16 of 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?' titled, 'The Saviour Lives Just Down the Road', addresses this period of time. (This is a PDF of the 1987 first edition. It's possible that expanded and updated latter editions (1992,1996) have this chapter numbered differently. Incidentally, savior/saviour appears in both British and American spellings.)

    L. Ron Hubbard - Messiah or Madman - messiahormadmen.pdf

    Calimule's criticisms - or similar criticisms - could be made against almost any top person in Scientology at the time (and about many key people who left subsequently.)

    Yet these are the people who led the schism, were Fair Gamed, battled in court for years, and ultimately exposed the Scientology cult.

    An excerpt from Chapter 16, 'The Savior Lives just Down the Road':

    ...During the previous five years I had experienced what it was like to be a cult leader, to be Hubbard's agent. There was a seductive aspect to this which was very powerful indeed! As Hubbard's representative I had begun to be seen, in the eyes of his followers at Riverside, as similarly superhuman.

    It snuck up on me by easy gradients. Anyone who has succumbed to flattery or ego-stroking has experienced the same thing. If possibly on a smaller scale.

    It is somehow hard to realize that there is something seriously amiss when one is the beneficiary of this kind of adoration.

    The power I was able to wield created a persona that was not me. I knew it even then, but could not - and probably did not want to - shake it off. It was like booze to an alcoholic.

    ...I had experienced a modicum of the same disease that had consumed Hubbard, yet because of the subsequent period of absence from the madness of Hubbard and his agents, leaving me to quietly contemplate at home, I had been cured. Well, not quite completely - some powerful symptoms lingered still... In spite of everything I still saw Scientology as the way to a better world. It had been a major part of my life for seventeen years, and in some ways I was still a zealot...

    ____________


    [​IMG]
    Bill Franks, former Executive Director international, with Bent Corydon.
     
    JustSheila likes this.
  9. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I feel so vindicated seeing Heber quoting the Quran to explain Scientology's behavior. I've been trying to make that exact point myself.

    Heber countering the judge's comments that Scientology is schizophrenic and paranoid by saying Nazi run Interpol did that is kind of like saying - just because you are paranoid doesn't mean Interpol isn't really out to get you.

    Defending Scientology is a tough gig.
     
    CaliMule likes this.
  10. CaliMule

    CaliMule Work Hard and Bray

    Indeed, a fullest picture goes massively beyond the few snippets I've selected, so it must be approximate rather than precisely accurate.

    I don't maintain that Corydon didn't do something redeeming, just as Alan Walter wound up doing, and Martin Samuels, in my estimate, conspicuously omitted doing (and seemed to moan that his "business" was hijacked, after accumulating wealth on the premise that it was NO business but a nonprofit endeavor he heads and seeks your Scientologist dollar in support of). Then again, Samuels never went around claiming hundreds of acres of Oregon land are "his" to keep at the end of the analysis, unlike Corydon's retention of the very valuable Riverside YMCA building.

    But the weasel word here is "successful" mission holder. Where shall we draw the line that marks this adjective and class of mission holder? I've known better calibre people who vehemently eschewed putting a false face to the world to back up their "success", despite being mission holders. They didn't bug their premises simply because someone suggested they may, etc. They didn't do the massa & slaves economic racket, but strove mightily to extend comforts of life to all who were laboring, to the extent feasible. They chose to attempt being a mission holder while practicing "Scientology with a human face."

    Let's not paint with too broad a brush all mission holders to avoid painting with too broad a brush the "successful" class.

    "Almost any" you say? That sounds strange to me, as you are talking about a time when I was VERY much in touch while being raised in Scientology, definitely checking off the list on my Baedeker and being within line-of-sight of the greats. I'm not as dailed-in as ex-CMO, but I'm no clueless noob either. Much of my adult life was spent with an in-the-loop family letting me listen in while we maintained a careful truce about my BIs and "disaffection" and their deal with Satan. Sure, I never mounted the kind of redemptive campaign Corydon did, but I also never sought someone's friendship or trust with the knowledge that I would betray that friendship or trust for my own financial gain or prestige. I had examples of Scientologists, even high profile ones, who showed me a better model of behavior than these "successful" mission holders who you say are all of a same stamp.

    Yvonne just spread rumors of how tirelessly she worked and how little she emulated LRH in living large at the expense of slaves she recruited? Really? That's all just PR? Captain Bill was secretly livin' gangsta' while busying himself with the nitty gritty of getting quarters and crew looked after - mostly for show in retrospect? David Mayo vehemently declined that Fort Harrison penthouse suite merely because his swank crib in suburban Clearwater was superior, and he set up in Santa Barbara because nothing but the toppermost of the propermost would do? Flag staff, above a certain rank, never knew what discount/second-hand shopping for their kid's clothes was? The list could go on.

    I applaud Bent Corydon for doing as the Catholic priests suggests, "reflect on your life", and offering up some kind of mea culpa, as has been qouted. It is far from an accurate and complete picture, though.

    Corydon faced the same dilemna Leah Remini faces today: do you let it ALL hang out, Kardashian style, or do you dance a complicated dance that leaves you at risk of plunging off your high wire act? Corydon danced nicely, but didn't have the stamina to keep such a high wire act up perpetually, as, in my estimate, he would only go so far down the road of truth. Leah is wiser in accepting that, yeah she lied, lots, and has stamina and public support as reward for that kind of honesty. It may be tough, but Leah "Fraternizer" Remini can probably go the distance with a wildly cheering public urging her on, and it boils down to being honest despite embarassment.
     
    Clay Pigeon likes this.
  11. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    You're really hung up on that building. Were you a staff member? What was your post? and for how long?

    Hubbard had wanted the building.

    Miscavige wanted three things: the building, ownership of the copyright of Messiah or Madman? - which was subsequently published in three additional editions including a Russian language edition - and a complete retraction of everything.

    Miscavige received none of that.

    There was a ten year litigation battle in multiple courtrooms, plus ten years of harassment and Fair Game.

    How would you have held up? Would you have caved and given them everything they wanted?
     
  12. CaliMule

    CaliMule Work Hard and Bray

    Never staff there. Knew a few who were briefly, and who didn't glow with praise about it.
    No doubt. Could he have argued that Scientologist's money was expected to enable the Scientology plan of growth for Riverside? Hubbard was upfront in publications about the development path of small Scientology centers eventually becoming orgs, owned by no one but a nonprofit religious corporation. That expectation may not be legally enforceable, but is it not morally right to expect that Scientology donations year after year from people expecting the general game plan to be followed would look at what is labelled church property as something there is a collective entitlement to?

    Did Bent Corydon ever publish to donors to Riverside Mission a "What Your Fees Buy" explaining to them that there was no "Scientology" ownership of this property, that it was his personal wealth in that pile of bricks? A lot of people think a "donation" furthers a collective interest, not personal wealth.

    Hubbard justifiably caught hell from the IRS about inurement, so why shouldn't Bent Corydon face some challenge about how he personally was profiting in the form of valuable real property holdings supported by "donations" to what publically appears to be a "church"?
    This is what is known as an "incomplete hypothetical" in formal debate.

    If I had entered into a business that will falsely present itself as something much more benevolent than a business operated for an owner's profit, if I knew that this scheme is willing to disregard all laws and seek only its own benefit when it chooses to, that underhanded tactics in fleecing "donors" for the maximum of cash is the operating procedure, and that I would in short come into a nice pile of dirty money by all this, THEN I should have to answer such a question.

    Bent Corydon used the Scientology shotgun muzzle staring in the face of people to enrich himself. That gun muzzle could be directed at dissatisfied customers ("parishoners"), at dissatisfied staff (whom Corydon could claim were not subject to wage and hour law because they are "religious volunteers" despite there being a regular "payday" and nothing really religious about bookkeeping, file tending, or sweeping floors, etc.), at public detractors, and in short at anyone who could lessen his income, that he would gain by means fair or foul, if those people drew ire from a powerful church for doing so. That he eventually faced the muzzle of that gun himself is kind of what he risked by becoming an insider in such a scheme.

    In short "so how would YOU have handled it when your gang turned against you" is inappropriate to put to me as I never joined a shady gang that seeks dirty money in the first place. I participated in Scientology as someone not yet an adult and entitled to make my own decisions about my religious upbringing, not as a completely free agent. Not all Scientologists are/were Reed Slatkin copycats. The one time when I understood that someone was trying to earn revenue by exploiting my habits of being scrupulous and honest in my transactions, I walked away from it and tried to inform anyone who would be deceived that they should not look to my reputation in dealing with the scheme. That's what I had seen upstanding and admirable Scientologists do in their business dealings as I was being raised in their company, and that is how I chose to live my life in turn.
     
  13. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Who were these "better calibre people," @CaliMule? Any names we might know?

    You imply that these people -- hell, you state that these unnamed people are superior to Bent, who survived a 10-year legal battle with CoS and wrote a book that opened the eyes of a lot of people to what a scam scn is. Did any of these unnamed "better calibre" people do anything as commendable?

    I joined staff at a mission in Hawaii which was later acquired by Bent and went to Riverside twice as a sort of "outer-org trainee." I spent about 6 months there altogether. I agree that there was a large disparity between how Bent and the other Riverside execs lived versus the average staff member. But I would say he did certainly try to "extend comforts of life to all who were laboring, to the extent feasible." Certainly, in retrospect, I was working for peanuts (and no, I'd never do it again), but it didn't feel like "massa & slaves" as you characterized it. I had a job I liked, a decent place to live, and I was well fed. Conditions there were better than they were at the mission in Hawaii. My impression was that the staff loved Bent and were willing to work hard because of this.

    Do you think it would have been more just if CoS had taken that building from Bent? I say hurray for him! I'm glad he hung onto the building instead of letting CoS break him. Hurray for him, and fuck scn!
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
    Veda and JustSheila like this.
  14. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Uh huh.

    Was he now? !

    Mission holders took the risk and made the investment and owned their missions with the understanding that they had a degree of autonomy and would pay a percentage of their income to Hubbard.

    Missions were the primary source of new public for places like St. Hill, the AO, and Flag.

    There was never an understanding that they would be eventually become orgs.

    During the late 1970s, and worsening during the early 1980s, Hubbard started attacking mission holders whose independence he viewed as a threat to his power. After the release of secret Scientology spying and Fair Game documents by federal court order, in late 1979, and the two subsequent mission holders conferences that challenged what was then viewed as the "mystery" management running Scientology, Hubbard secretly ordered Miscavige to oversee the crushing and looting of the missions.


    As a distant bystander, you didn't experience any of this. You are poorly informed.

     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
    programmer_guy and JustSheila like this.
  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    :goodposting:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  16. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    .............
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  17. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    CaliMule seems to be the voice of the Church of Scientology's black propaganda campaign against all those who spoke out.

    CaliMule carries on with so much bullshit tangled with little bits of truth sprinkled through it to make the whole thing seem true.

    No specifics here. WHO stated these things? WHAT staff members? WHEN?

    Riverside mission made more money than any Class IV org at the time, even more than COSMOD. The staff and auditors made a lot of money, too, they were just rolling in it. It was nothing like the Sea Org and mixing up Sea Org horror stories with Riverside mission staff at the peak of its success is just ridiculous. I personally did USGO's income bookkeeping in 1980 as an AOLA staff members and saw the statements and mailed the billings created by the USGO FP Council for all the bullshit USGO missions that were sent to Riverside to raise USGO income and harass Corydon and the others.

    The abuse of the Riverside Mission was relentless. Quite frightening to see. The billing statements of USGO "missions" sent there went on for years, each mission becoming far more expensive than the last as the USGO extracted hundreds of thousands of dollars from those missions using force, intimidation and threats, knowingly trying to take every bit of money from them before declaring them SPs and shutting them down. Corydon, the staff and public pushed back against COS. Pushed back HARD. Endless group meetings and those meetings included the public. They were going to splinter off on their own and had enough of COS.

    Corydon's mission public were happy enough, though, and the staff was very well paid. All was well until the big, relentless squeeze for money and endless USGO missions billing them over half a million dollars and using threats, intimidation and holding SP Declares over their heads if those bills weren't paid. De-dinging was their weird solution to that, but I heard mixed accounts from public who were there. Some say it was an abusive reg technique, others said it was just fun to "de-ding" when something bothered you. But it was a very short-lived fad lasting somewhere between 6 and 18 months, whereas USGO's harassment of Riverside and COSMOD missions started somewhere around 1977 or 1978 and continued relentlessly until the famous mission holder declare in the early 80s. There was never any other intention than to strip the monies from the missions and shut them down. USGO was under orders from the top but who was behind that, I cannot say from firsthand account except DM wasn't yet in power in 1977 and 1978.

    Before all of this craziness (started by USGO under orders from above) THE RIVERSIDE MISSION and COSMOD HAD BEEN THE LARGEST SCIENTOLOGY MISSIONS IN THE USA AND SENT MORE PEOPLE TO AOLA AND FLAG THAN ANY NON-SO ORG OR MISSION. But later, they had been denied most of their FSM commissions, which were awarded to particular individuals who were popular with AOLA and Flag and also AOLA and Flag public. Corydon was pretty pissed off about that and he and the other mission holders had stopped sending public to the AOs and Flag sometime around 1980 or so.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
    Veda and TheOriginalBigBlue like this.
  18. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    For our readers by FES I think you mean Folder Error Summary, right? The people at AO who reviewed PC folders for corrective actions.
     
  19. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yeh, thanks. I just did a big edit of the post to put things in sequence a bit better and add more perspective.

    The thing is, the USGO harassed, squeezed and abused the Calif missions relentlessly for years with every intention of declaring the missions SP as soon as they got all the money they could out of them. De-dinging was short-lived and a reaction to the harassment they were getting at the time. It was stupid, in some cases probably abusive, but it's like demonizing the mouse that chews a hole in the wall while ignoring the elephant in the room from which it is trying to escape that completely demolishes the house.

    That's the way the cult always spins things, though - push push push and abuse others until they are about to break, then if they make any mistake, use that mistake to say, "See? I've been telling you for years. This guy isn't right. The problem is him, not me."

    There was nothing perfect about the Riverside and COSMOD missions, but if you were at AOLA, they were about the happiest public that came in from anywhere in the world at the time, though, and that says a lot, even if the FESers hated their folders. :giggle: I remember Katie Howson, who was a full-time AOLA FESer, rolling her eyes whenever COSMOD or Riverside folders came in... ;)

    The dreaded USGO B1 was after Riverside and COSMOD like rabid dogs. In 1979 and 1980, B1 and the FP Committee USGO was headed by Val Lisa, but even when that changed in later years (Val was transferred to a mission after the USGO was disbanded), that didn't change the treatment of the missions one iota. Who gave Val Lisa her orders would be a good question, but I think we all know the answer to that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
    TheOriginalBigBlue likes this.
  20. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    That clarifies a lot, Veda, and fills in some missing information and explains why Corydon and other mission holders became targets as early as 1978. Thanks.



    This is a great quote, Veda. Gives one a lot of insight. Thank you.
     
    Enthetan and Veda like this.