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Bill Franks Interviews for UTR folks and new Exes

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by ILove2Lurk, Dec 22, 2018.

  1. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    @TomKat ... is this post (in Lotus's second language I might add) not acceptable (to you) as part of this discussion???

  2. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Where did I said I had ptsd from Scn ???
    I said I am out int since I letf...(But don't be sorry it has no meaning to me)

    Although I empathetize with you for being my victim...I never been a "fine"" person and I tend to see thing very grossly!

    Then how about you get better safety equipment when trying to preach or lecture exes....
    It has never been a problem for people still practicing to come here and DISCUSS...
    But when the preach Hubtard ole shit...they can expect to get some argumentation though.
  3. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I understood it is invalidation..right???
    I'd say it's entheta!

    I am not invalidating him I am pushing $cientology entheta...(means truth...)
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  4. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Whew! You win! :hifive: Such well thought out, logical and quietly but rationally stated argumentation. :clap2: You are the winner! :thumbsup:

    Now you can triumphantly retire to your cave of absolute certainty knowing that you have slain the beast of disagreement and debate.

    I have learned my lesson not to express anything you might not like. Your certainty trumps everything and everybody!!!1!!!11
  5. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    OhlalalalaI it has just been brought to my attention that you Tomkat are invalidating my very good friend Bill. How can you complain of me doing it while in fact your are the one who does it...

    Not nice...nop!
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  6. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    It was so predictable...this is what is funny ...

    Each time I am amazed and stunned at the exact same pattern with no slight variation... really amazing...
    Bill likes this.
  7. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    well, Hubbard said he cleared people, 270 of them in the book Dianetics, have you ever read it?

    So, who are these people?

    How come they have not made history? How come we do not know who they are?

    Hubbard said in his OEC's, the PR series, and the Marketing series, of policy letters, that the purpose of PR and Marketing was to make good works well known. You ever read those Tomcat? Are you OT8, OEC, FEBC, a doctor of scientology? What are your credentials?

    So, where are the good works of these clears, 270 of them from the very beginning, where are they? Who are they? Are they clear?

    How come Hubbard never put them on the spot light? After all, that would be good works well known, the purpose of PR and Marketing in Scientology.

    Is that a intelligent enough of a discussion you wish to have, or will you twist things around?

    Can you answer my questions?
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  8. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    here's another thing, if you are so certain of scientology and hubbard,

    what about ridge running, and black and white processing, and creative processing? Those where to suppose to erase wholesale engrams, secondaries and locks on the whole track, and make OT's!

    Those are on the PDC's, you ever listen or study those lectures?

    I'd like a intelligent discussion of that.

    Instead, what Hubbard did was create body thetan's for the OT levels. How come he switched from black and white processing, ridge running, creative processing to BT's?

    What are your thoughts on that?

    I'd like an intelligent discussion.
  9. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    There's only a couple three questions Scientologists should ask about Hubbard nowadays.

    1. Despite having invented a (so-called) science of the mind and spirit, why was he so ill physically and mentally at the end?

    Read this post and this one for more details.

    2. Why did he try to commit suicide in November '85 and then request an assisted suicide in January '86, instead of going to a hospital like normal people do?

    3. He researched his bridge on earth for roughly 35 years. He's been out researching the upper bridge for almost 35 years . . . or so I've been told. Really? For who? Where is he now and why didn't he return as he'd promised everyone?

    Those are the only questions one needs to ask at the end of the day. Other questions are just distractions or just for fun or just being silly.

    Hate to beat a dead horse again, but I've lost the ability to be anything but blunt about this. Don't waste days of your life pondering this anymore. Nothing will change.
    The civilization has moved on about the Hubbard question a long time ago now. :shrug:
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  10. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I can summarize TomCat's probable "intelligent" response: 'You are stupid and ignorant."

    There. Saved you time.
  11. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    (Bold emphasis mine.)

    ...Also after Hubbard switched it to BTs then he should have renamed the OT levels as pre-OT levels.
    Just a little point I want to add. ;)
    Type4_PTS, phenomanon and JustSheila like this.
  12. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Actually, DMSMH doesn't say there were 270 clears. It says 270 cases were worked, and some of them were cleared. I bring this up only because I think it's important to keep the facts straight.

    "Before then 270 cases had been worked and 270 cases had reached prenatal engrams. And 270 cases had been cleared or alleviated as the dianeticist chose and time permitted. All could have been cleared with an additional average of 100 or so hours for each of the persons who were alleviated." -- DMSMH, bottom of pg 110 in this edition.

    I don't believe Hubbard cleared anybody. And I doubt that he worked 270 cases. I think it was probably closer to 27, and maybe not even that high. I think he audited himself, Sara, Campbell, J. A. Winter, Don Rogers, and maybe a few others. So maybe it was more like seven.

    Otherwise I'm in complete agreement with your post, Gib.
  13. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    I didn't promote any of these things. You're just making shit up to see what sticks.
  14. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    You might want to check yourself to see if you are arguing with an image in your mind rather than me. Maybe you're arguing with Hubbard? You did mention DMSMH missing clears.

    I've never done black & white processing, but if you want a discussion of it, tell me your experience with it. I never liked creative processing. How about you?
  15. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    I seem to remember a few years ago I made a post about this but I can't be bothered to try to find it again. I think the gist of it was that when Hubbard was in the naval hospital where he said he cured himself of blindness (blah blah) he also said he tried his techniques on about 200 patients. This quote will be on the internet somewhere and I'm pretty sure it's these cases he's talking about in DMSMH.
  16. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yeah, he also claimed to have gotten some "ambulant lunatics from a matrimonial bureau" and audited guys in his Hollywood office and sent them out "twice as tall as superman," but we have no one's word for that except Hubbard's, and he'd already told some real whoppers by that time, about his war record for example. So I put little stock in any claims of his that are unsupported by outside sources.
  17. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    That's true! Another win!!!!!

    But let's look at what you did claim:
    If you can please stop insulting people and stop tap-dancing away and actually have an "intelligent discussion" on these claims, that would be nice.

    Repetitive process: Please provide evidence that repetitive process is useful in any way, not to mention a "seminal practical contribution". What is this claim based on?
    Finding entities: (Do you actually believe in "body thetans"?) What evidence do you have that convinced you that "entities" exist? Where do you think these "entities" came from? Xenu?
    E-meter: What evidence can you provide to show that the e-meter is "very useful"? What do you think the e-meter does? How have you determined anything the e-meter "shows" is true? How do you explain the times the e-meter doesn't work or do you believe the e-meter is always correct?
    NOTS: Once again, what evidence do you have that "body thetans" exist? What do you think they are and where do you think they came from?
    As-isness: How have you determined that this "erasure" is actually "erasing" anything? That is, please show evidence that the "engram" (or whatever) actually exists and then, after "as-isness", doesn't exist.

    Now, you did claim these things specifically. If you can respond intelligently to this comment, without insults and without tap-dancing, I believe you would be holding up your end of an "intelligent discussion". I'll do my best to do the same.
  18. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    A repetitive process brings out things from the subconscious that then disappear if kept up. I've seen this a lot on objectives, especially.
    Entities, when located and expelled, provide instant relief, a feeling of more "space" and calmness.
    I've used an e-meter to locate entities and it worked well. I've also used it de-haunt a house to good effect.
    I've used the NOTs technique with success countless times to dispel entities.
    As-isness: when you allow yourself to experience something unpleasant, at some point the unpleasantness disappears. You can test this out very easily in dreams at night.
    Now if you're going to ask for objective evidence for subjective perceptions, I won't be able to avoid insulting you, sorry.
  19. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    :eyeroll: You BELIEVE it brings up things in the subconscious. You BELIEVE they then disappear by repetition. The 35 people killed in 11 post office shootings by postal workers who went nuts doing their repetitive jobs may disagree. They thought shooting everyone up would make it disappear, but that didn't work, either. :no:

    Seriously, though - repetition is harmful and there are hundreds, maybe even thousands, of research articles over the last 50 years all over the world to find ways for businesses to eliminate repetition because it makes people zombie-like, unhappy and they make mistakes. Your beliefs are not supported by any research.

    The Catholic church used to sell that line of bull, too. It also relieved the congregation - of money. Hundreds of years of exorcisms and still no medically or scientifically documented cases of possessions and successfull exorcisms (cures) ought to be a clue (you'd think).

    I'm not surprised you're saying that. They say a sucker is born every day. "Psychic" con-artists have taken money from the grieving and mentally unstable for centuries by claiming to contact their lost loved ones, rid their homes of evil spirits, etc. Some people will always believe they are controlled by unseen spirits and be gullible enough to pay someone to get rid of the bad ones or contact the good. As I said above, it's a very old con.

    That's really dark. The Marquis de Sade would completely agree with you:

    "the Marquis de Sade offered a wholly different view - which is that pain itself has an ethics, and that pursuit of pain, or imposing it, may be as useful and just as pleasurable, and that this indeed is the purpose of the state - to indulge the desire to inflict pain in revenge, for instance, via the law (in his time most punishment was in fact the dealing out of pain)."

    You do know who the Marquis de Sade was, don't you TomKat? He was a very famous sadist who imprisoned and tortured women. You might want to reconsider your philosophy about inflicting pain on others being "good" and "beneficial."
  20. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Exactly. You are 100% correct. You can't provide anything beyond "I believe!!!" without resorting to insults. That's Scientology! That's True Believerhood! That proves what I've said all along. You believe and that's all you've got -- and all you think you need.

    It isn't that you can't prove anything you claim -- that's expected -- it's that you cannot respond to criticism or skepticism WITHOUT INSULTS.

    That is canon and you've got it duplicated perfectly: All who dare question you are EVIL SPs. Hubbard taught you well and you believe with absolute certainty that you are correct.

    I'm so glad you are so honest about it all.