ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Bill Franks Interviews for UTR folks and new Exes

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by ILove2Lurk, Dec 22, 2018.

View Users: View Users
  1. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Sorry - duplicate
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  2. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Keeping a belief system, like $cientology, not to fall apart in regard to the decades of myths debunked, of new report and documentaries of the cruelty of it's " sacred precepts" which includes mental process tech, entities exorcism tech, behavior reforming, redefining the outer world and it's nomenclature, redefining family and social roles playing, teaching total obedience to the founder, and his policies; all this, especially when practiced out of the COS group support, demands a true believer, a tremendous amount of dedication and to build a strong fortress of immunization against any exterior attempt to shake the pillars of the temple which is to hold a total ceryainty toward the cult and the bridge to total freedom (Thanks to uncle Ronnie as he already planned it in his tech dedicated to address pseudo-enemies entheta and suppressive behavior and crimes committed as degraded low tone beings..);
    Otherwise , it would have already collapsed years ago ..the ego mind would have yet surrendered to the obvious pseudo- scientific pseudo-religious hack while largely available debunking facts are submitted to critical thought scrutunity.

    I sometimes listen to buddhist tantric practices using mantra chanting and gongs and other music instruments all aligned on specific vibrations of the soul...It helps me to reconnect.

    Now..please ask me it it's a belief, a science or a process that has been proven to work????
    Will I apply this to my friends??? Will I try to convince people???

    No..it's personnal...it's a personnal practice..not a truth of the universe and it doesn't have any scientific ground neither proof it does what I THINK it does to me.....Like many people, I don't need people's agreement on my beliefs or pseodo-spiritual practices...Same for yoga or christian practitioners here...( this is actually what I don' t get..this frantic obsessive needs of agreement and acknowledgement from others..)

    Now if one find it's total bullshit, ridicule, a hack or whatever...I can be part of the discussion...and have fun...and get other viewpoints...as I admit that all religions, gurus, rituals, doctrine holds a lesser or greater part of bullshit...but I won't argue since I have nothing to sell and I certainly don't believe I know the Truth...otherwise I would have already make my life way easier...

    (Although if I would have been suddenly enlightened and got revelations from heavens...I think I would give a try to turn myself into a peddler guru...it's very temptating to have so many fans flowing so much admiration and money uplines ..lol.....☺.)

    However...spiritually "growing or maturing" might IMHO means to release us of such beliefs that are comforting and that we absoluetly want to hold all together in an attempt for the fearful ego to survive in the darkness of not knowing...

    I think most of practices, like Scientology , are making people like drug addicts in their brain and this explains why they behave like junkies and absoluetly need to get other adepts into their practice..to enjoy such distorted alteted reality bubble (that we can see in all culys..) they need other people to come within, join and share the bubble..otherwise..it's not fun to be alone in one's bubble, especially the one of the truth to freedom! ( houses of cards)

    We had seen it for decades each friday night..especially in listening to the wonderful OT wins and the wonders of the tech..while actually , for many cases, we were witnessing lives collapsing...family, work, finances, health, mental health....lost souls...
    [justify]
    But...hey...like drugs... It has some good in it...[/justify]
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  3. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    ( deleted)
     
  4. PirateAndBum

    PirateAndBum Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'd hazard a guess that it has to do with the fact that they feel they got benefit from auditing and thus there must be something good about it. To say otherwise would not be truthful to their own experience.
     
  5. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    A lot of Scientologists could say that, otherwise we wouldn't have stayed. I know I thought I "got gains". But I never got the promised results -- ever, and I've never found an honest ex-Scientologist who did. And that's the difference.

    My concern is that the Scientology lies (i.e. "Scientology Works!") will lure people into the trap and that is unacceptable. "Scientology" does not "work" in any honest, meaningful way. Random "gains" are meaningless and cannot be, honestly, attributed to Scientology.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  6. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    To me it's irrelevant what a tool has been used for in the past. And I don't worry about people getting in Scn because I said something good about the tech. I have to view them as adults until proven otherwise. I won't slant my opinion to prevent some imaginary person out there from doing something bad. That's elitist and just doesn't feel good.
     
  7. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    Because they still find it useful? Because they can discern good from bad and not throw the baby out with the bath water? Because there are bullies who try to shut them up? Because they actually LEARNED the tech and didn't just adopt it like a suit of clothes to be thrown away after leaving? Multiple reasons for multiple people.
     
  8. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Hum....
    See how words and cognitive dissonance is essential to a true believer...

    Since you used the word " USED" it can be used to argue that it doesn' matter how it has been used...it's like the wonderful e-meter..it doesn't matter if it has been used as a lie detector...lol

    I think is has been prooved for decades by experts and people involved that it has been specifically DESIGNED for the sole purpose to entrap people and has proven no therapeutic value...

    Thus, there was no baby we threw with the bath water. There only was a few candies threw here and there...
    However, nobody here opposed to people who believe that chasing their entities with a lie detector is making them live a better life and feel better..We can HAVE it..can't we????

    But trying and insisting to sell the value of whiskey to a bunch of ex-alcoholic might not be the best idea though..lol
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  9. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    So, do you have (spiritual/mental) issues that you want to resolve that the tech helps you with?
     
  10. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Thanks for the lols ladies (you're all very naughty!) but it's actually a serious question that I'm hoping @TomKat will answer.

    I was one of the many that didn't need or want anything the cult had to offer (on the processing side). I honestly had no issues that I wanted resolved. I didn't mind life repair, I even quite enjoyed it ... having somebody's attention on 'me me me' was a new experience and quite nice for the first half hour or so (I was very young, lol) but I quickly got over that and didn't want anymore auditing for anything specific ... it bored me half to death and achieved exactly nothing (for me) but, just like everyone else, I had no choice if I wanted to get onto the OT levels (which I had been convinced to do by someone I trusted implicitly, at the time) and I had to do all the lower level stuff first.

    Sigh ... but when I finally got onto the OT levels I almost died of embarrassment because I knew that I'd been played as soon as I looked at the OT3 pack ... and I left the cult forever as soon as I could and wouldn't pick up the cans now if my life depended on it.

    Anyway I'm hoping that TK does respond even though I realise it's a very personal question that I possibly shouldn't be asking.

    :oops:
     
    JustSheila, Type4_PTS and Gib like this.
  11. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

  12. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Lol :D

    I was browsing on my phone while watching a Donald Trump documentary...
    And it was the part he cheated on Ivana with Marla...

    I was probably going to warn Marla but instead gave up....:oops:

    Lol

    What????
    We tremendously need some distraction in this mad world..before it ends up...:eek:
     
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I don't understand what you said. What do you mean "it's about intent"?
     
  14. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    so you don't worry about adults getting in involved in scientology. What about kids?
     
  15. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    No, not imaginary persons, but as you stated earlier in this thread, you have no problem at all with preventing imaginary entities from doing something bad and that includes your ghostbuster services to clear haunted houses. It's apparently not elitist to pretend you know more than others and can see and control spirits and then boot those imaginary entities out of their homes if it earns you a few bucks that some naive believer is willing to pay because it's true for you and that's good enough.

    I'm sure that all makes sense to you, but out here in the real world, well... not so much. :no:
     
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  16. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    And put that in your pipe and smoke it..lol
    :D
     
  17. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    $cientology, either in or out of the COS is creepy and very depressing...

    :oops:

    A quick interlude for a little mass given to our audience

     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
    JustSheila likes this.
  18. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm glad you brought this up because this is key when evaluating Scientology after leaving. The "good" and "bad" are relative to the context. So many people, when they "leave" Scientology only leave the church, not the mindset. They still think in Scientology terms and evaluate based on Scientology dogma. This severely limits what they discern as "good" and what they see as "bad".

    Some "tech" can be seen as "good" only when compared with other Scientology "tech". That's sad when that happens. Scentologists are indoctrinated in the myth that all technologies outside of Scientology are failures for which Scientology is the answer.

    But, in a true evaluation of all possible methods for improvement and enlightenment Scientology barely registers. The world is rich in so many paths and ideas and therapies and tools and, yes, religions that it is quite wonderful and fun. I've done much studies and tried a number of different paths and, in my experience, the gains and enlightenment from these FAR surpass anything I experienced in Scientology.

    It is important to determine good and bad -- but to do so over the vast possibilities available in the world, not just within the Scientology bubble.
     
  19. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    As long as you're alright.
     
  20. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    LOL! However, saying good things about the "tech" without mentioning that you have no actual, verifiable evidence to support what you are promising is unethical. Not that that seems to bother you.
     
    JustSheila likes this.