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Featured Bill Frank's story about brainwashing (thread merge)

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by gwells, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    Okay, just hang in there. We've only just begun. We're working on getting a complete view here. I don't think that's even remotely possible with what has been communicated so far.

    Leave if you wish but, I'd encourage a pithy question or two from your intelligent universe. :)
     
  2. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Wecome Bill,

    We never met, but as a denizen of FCDC for a while, there were some stories that persisted around those parts for quite a while after your presence there (and we know, at least philosophically what causes things to persist.) One story had to do with dirks and product conferences, the other with a showing of the movie "Patton" to the FCDC crew. Apparently one of your execs was enamored with the 'Desert Fox' valence, and another exec claimed to just have been "an insurance salesman". Can you shed any light on the veracity of the above?

    But what I really think would be of most value is "the candor" of which LRH could be capable of, to which you allude.

    Again, it is wonderful that you found your voice here.
     
  3. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    Reflections?
     
  4. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    The subject of scientology being brainwashing has been much discussed here.
    Brainwashing threads on ESMB

    Brainwashing is an important piece of the puzzle and your revelation here is all the more important in substanciating it.

    Not sure if you ever read this:

    Brainwashing in Scientology's Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF)
    http://www.solitarytrees.net/pubs/skent/brain.htm

    One of the best and earliest references on Hubbard's use of hypnotism in Dianetics is by Jon Atack:
    "Never believe a hypnotist"
    An investigation of L. Ron Hubbard's statements about hypnosis and its relationship to his Dianetics. by Jon Atack HTML and links by Tilman Hausherr
    http://home.snafu.de/tilman/j/hypnosis.html

    Research by Jon Atack on Scientology, Dianetics and L. Ron Hubbard
    http://home.snafu.de/tilman/j/index.html
     
  5. bill franks

    bill franks Patron

    brainwashing

    Dear Ulf,
    I'd say most people I knew were true believers though I always thought the midget and his cronies were onto something else including hubbard. Yes it was about money in the 70's and 80's but it was also about delivering the tech to growing quantities of people. It's interesting to note that in 1980 that we put up several evals to lower the cost of the training and auditing and hubbard went bananas. Really. So, draw your own conclusions.
    I believe the midget is what one would expect from an eight grader (mind you, an angry eight grader) as I believe that is all the education he got. I spent not a little time with him and i never saw him read anything but always had it read to him and this was true with writing as well. If anyone could find someone by the name of John Nelson, he would corroberate these facts.
    The midget was and is ruthless and I would say that from what I have seen and heard the major thought he has when he gets up in the PM is what can I do for dave today. But he is quite serious about his personal survival and in the time that I spent with him he made no bones about it. That is enough. Best, Bill
     
  6. Ulf K. Maier

    Ulf K. Maier Patron Meritorious

    I'm still reading the thread :)

    Hmm. I just don't like the sound of this Tek-salvaging. I don't hear any talk about those broken and left drifting like flotsam by Scientology. What about helping those people? They don't need to be put on a meter to be told what they're upset about. I guess it's left to some of the rest of us to deal with.

    I did ask a couple questions earlier, thanks. Maybe you didn't catch them. Maybe Mr Franks will answer them. I understand I'm not the only one here :)
     
  7. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest

    Thanks for the vote of confidence, Feral! :cheers: No more KoolAde for me!

    I agree, my enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend. But I see discussion with my Indy friends (I don't get along with ALL Indies, by any stretch) more from a Hegel viewpoint: thesis - antithesis - synthesis. We don't directly discuss Scn. Those that have a wider education and more world contacts and experience don't seem to have a hard time discussing their beliefs in more general terms, without constant (mis)credit or parroting of Hubbard. Some of their views open possibilities for me, and vice-versa. I don't see them as true believers in the cult sense, nor as true followers of Marty, either.

    Besides, as much as some might worry about the ex's views getting compromised, the same could be said about the Indies' views getting compromised by speaking to us. I would think Marty would be very worried about that if it was about control. Independent should mean exactly that! As long as it does to my Indy friends, more power to them in thinking and acting and living as freely and happily as possible. :)

    TO BILL FRANKS: Helloooo.... :megaphone: Would you answer me, please?
     
  8. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    He did answer you. :) In regards the rest, give it some time. He just got on this board 45 minutes ago. It wasn't so easy before the Internet. We have instantaneous communication and expect answers, answers, answers.

    He hasn't, apparently, spoken out on any forum since he left many, many years ago. Patience.

    Tonight is an introduction, I hope. Every relationship takes time. :hug:

    I'm not looking for him to become some sort of savior or for him to agree with me, I want to know what he knows, what he saw, his perspective. It fills in the holes and makes things make more sense. That's valuable.

    I do see what you are saying and why you feel the way that you do.
     
  9. bill franks

    bill franks Patron

    brainwashing

    Dear Sir, It wasn't a dirk but a "K-Bar" and I was thankfully accurate with it. We did show movies and Patton was one of them. I don't remember the Desert fox personna, but one guy was into Guederian whio invented the "Blitzkrieg".. I don't remember the insurance salesman
    As far as hubbard's candor, I believe that a lot of people such as messengers, etc could tell stories along these lines when the drugs wore off or it began to be late in the early morning. There were more than a few dispatches that I saw ripped up at a later date, but I don't think that is original. best, Bill Franks
     
  10. Ulf K. Maier

    Ulf K. Maier Patron Meritorious

    Appreciated

    Dear Mr Franks,

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.

    I see. I had had the impression that there were cliques, and the CMO were out to destroy and re-create the other working units in an image more easily manipulated, under orders from Hubbard, or falsified orders created by the Miscavige-Broeker cabal.

    Miscavige has something in common with George W. Bush! Isn't that something? (the reading of the reports to him)

    John Nelson is a name I haven't heard in a long time.

    Got you on your impression of Miscavige. I think we can all concur on that.

    I disagree with you on your idea of salvaging the Scientology tech, if that is indeed what you mean to do. All that interests me is:

    1. Getting those out who want out.
    2. Making known the fact that Scientology as it is and has been run is a ruthless scam and should be avoided, if not (preferably) outright obliterated as an organisation.

    At the same time, I should say I am of peaceable character and libertarian leanings, and believe that anyone should be able to believe what he wants, so long as no one is hurt in so doing.

    Thanks again for your time.
     
  11. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    The complete disdain Tubs and his midget mate had/have for the human race is there for all to see, and it always was.

    This revelation about the tek is very interesting but hardly surprising, the only real surprise is that it is taking so long for it all to come out.


    :confused2:
     
  12. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    Thanks Bill, fellers like you, Dart Smohen , Allen Walter and others show a dimension to Scientology that is very important.

    The more devoted of the indies have called them haters, but what do you expect from those who are still playing the game they set out to play in the SO and CofS?

    What you could tell about your days around Hubbard up to the mission holders conference could save people the years I went through and would prefer that I didn't.

    If you would like to know what I mean you might enjoy my story, the link is below. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  13. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Perhaps you and others who know him, can explain how this illiterate midget with an eighth mentality and the demeanor of a pit viper has managed to control Scientology for so long?

    I'd really like to know.
     
  14. Welcome Bill!

    Hurrah! Bill Franks was able to join us here! Welcome aboard, Bill, and GWells! We love to hear stories about the old days here, because it helps us to piece together a true history of COS. :thumbsup:

    I LOVED what you had to say here in your deposition:
    "15. In November 1981, I came into increasing conflict with David Miscavige, the man who relayed Hubbard's orders to me and everyone else in Scientology. The reason for this conflict was because I attempted to block many of the criminal and illegal operations implemented by Miscavige and the Guardian's Office on behalf of Hubbard. In December 1981, I was removed from my position, and then held against my will and locked up in Gilman Hotsprings, California for a period of weeks.

    16. While I was Executive Director of the Church of Scientology, we continually attempted to shield L. Ron Hubbard from any legal liability as a result of Church of Scientology activities. To do this, we continually lied in sworn affidavits and depositions about our contacts with L. Ron Hubbard, his control of the Church of Scientology, and our knowledge of his whereabouts. These perjurious statements were intentionally and willfully made, with the knowledge of Hubbard himself. In fact, he ordered many of the statements to be made. The principal responsibility of attempting to shield Hubbard from legal liability was handled by Norman Starkey and Terry Gamboa. I had numerous discussions with Starkey and Gamboa about shielding Hubbard from legal liabilities, despite his total management control over all phases of the Church of Scientology operations."

    Lying tech is still big with the Executives...Sigh! Have you heard the FBI is investigating them? :thumbsup:

    Very glad to have you join us! :happydance: Please tell us some more of your memories, as the mood strikes you...(That's what the popcorn smilie means! :coolwink:) We're listening! :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  15. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    Welcome, my name is Ed Berwick, I was in from 68-76. If you remember Teri Spickler, she is my wife, we've been married since the mid 70s. I did OT levels, the bc, and started a center that is now an org. I've audited for decades, outside the Co$ basically book one, but also grades, repair, power, etc.

    My question is based on something that I'm told Alan Walter told my source. He , according to my source, said that there were three of you (presumably Alan, Dean Stokes, and yourself) that were aiming to make a coup, and take over just prior to the Mission Holders massacre. Is this true? Would you elaborate some?

    thanks
     
  16. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation




    True ... Dart once did me a huge favour (though he wouldn't have known it at the time) by sneering at me as I was dashing about wearing my sailor suit (as you did) while attempting to get something done that involved him or his lovely wife (I can't recall what).

    He added a few pertinent comments about the SO which I made sure I appeared not to take on board but which later on I quietly thought about.

    I was out (of the SO) within around 12 months of that meeting.


    :thankyou:
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2011
  17. bill franks

    bill franks Patron

    Bill Franks

    Dear Mr. jacobsen,
    I indeed am the author of this posting. I write it as a human being, not as a Scientologist or anti Scientlogist. I write it from the viewpoint of wanting to tell people something about a technology of sorts, that I was involved in for near to 14 years and felt very responsible for. This is not written out of revenge or having any ax to grind. Instead, as with Toyota, if their brakes are failing it would be quickest and easiest to tell their customers that there was a misprint in the manual, if that were the case, so people might avoid unwanted collisions.
    Since Hubbard was the "source" for all technology in his religion, and he had clearly erred in a statement about the human mind that when followed might cause horrible consequences, it behooves an employee, even an ex employee, to correct the manual. And that is what I am attemting to do here.
    I hope this helps. best, Bill Franks
     
  18. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    You always say what I'm thinking. :thumbsup:
     
  19. Karen#1

    Karen#1 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Int Gold Base....more

    Dear Bill,

    You went from LRH appointed Executive Director to declared SP all in minutes.

    Even though you may not think it significant, revealing what occurred at INT base in your
    "stashed up in Hemet" days would be a Story of Significance to this Board and the Internet.

    Please tell the story if you feel comfortable getting in to it.

    INT Base stories reveal so much more than the mind set up there. It reveals the culture, the willingness for them to act as a one mentality mob with DM, it reveals to corruption of power and so much more.

    Thanks !
     
  20. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest

    Okay, Bill - I get the idea that this is as far as you want to go with your involvement at this time. But that is pretty far-reaching, too.

    WISE enterprises has been installing the whole PTS/SP O/W thing into normal companies for decades. Many have suffered as a result. Without this use of brainwashing, WISE also would have no teeth. Or Applied Scholastics, or any of the other Scientology offshoots which masquerade as help for society's problems.

    Perhaps some of you here (wink wink) might want to get Mr Franks info down the lines to some of the participants in these groups?