Bryan Seymour strikes again
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HelluvaHoax!
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Brilliant work by Bryan Seymour, Tony Ortega and everyone that helped participate in and produce this riveting expose into how Scientology cruelly parasites off the dreams of others.
In all of Manuela's cult training, she will undoubtedly be forced to study the historical case of Simon Bolivar "flowing power to the power" HCO Policy Letter. And Manuela will be forced to study the historical case of another Manuela (Saenz). But she will not be forced or even allowed to study the historical case of Mary Sue Hubbard who applied this "tech".
The cult only deals in wins. They don't like to put entheta on peoples' lines, like the story of Mary Sue's life being destroyed and sentenced to federal prison, suffering disconnection and dying alone in shame.
No worries, Scientology is the only game in the universe where everyone wins. Critics of Scientology shouldn't get all hung up about the personal disasters that befall the dancer Manuela in this lifetime--she's got a billion years to get it all handled to a nice win and F/N.
Brilliant work by Bryan Seymour, Tony Ortega and everyone that helped participate in and produce this riveting expose into how Scientology cruelly parasites off the dreams of others.
In all of Manuela's cult training, she will undoubtedly be forced to study the historical case of Simon Bolivar "flowing power to the power" HCO Policy Letter. And Manuela will be forced to study the historical case of another Manuela (Saenz). But she will not be forced or even allowed to study the historical case of Mary Sue Hubbard who applied this "tech".
The cult only deals in wins. They don't like to put entheta on peoples' lines, like the story of Mary Sue's life being destroyed and sentenced to federal prison, suffering disconnection and dying alone in shame.
No worries, Scientology is the only game in the universe where everyone wins. Critics of Scientology shouldn't get all hung up about the personal disasters that befall the dancer Manuela in this lifetime--she's got a billion years to get it all handled to a nice win and F/N.
In present time
Gold Meritorious Patron
He probably has several above average sons that look just like him and are thriving in life, lol.Well, now you know how Odo is doing, Smurf
Oh and a beautiful wife, a dog and a really nice little house.
BunnySkull
Silver Meritorious Patron
I just can't believe so many people went through so much effort to put together an intervention but not one contacted or thought to bring in a trained psychologist for it - like Steve Hassan. Maybe they were worried about being accused of "deprograming" if a "psych" was involved? IDK but it's heartbreaking.
The exes and family made the mistake of acting like they were dealing with a rational person. Someone who joins the SO (as an adult) is not rational. Facts and firsthand info will not have any effect. Talking "at them" is pointless, the goal must be to get the victim to interact, share their thought and feelings.
Any idea how old Manuela is? I don't think her age was ever mentioned. I also wonder how they managed to both get a green card as dancers/coreographers - they must of had a sponsor. I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with US immigration but getting a green card is an almost impossible achievement for two people who moved to LA just to try and make it in Hollywood. I only mention this because I wondered if her change in status could mean a necessary return to Australia to then get a religious visa. (I volunteered at a immigration advocacy group years ago, and may jaw dropped when I read that they managed to get Green cards so quickly - virtually an impossible feat w/o an employment or family sponsor and even then not easy. I wondered how they managed it.)
If she was approved for a green card due to circumstances that have now changed because she's in the SO, it could be an opportunity for the family to get her back to Australia for a spell if she must have her immigration status adjusted.
The exes and family made the mistake of acting like they were dealing with a rational person. Someone who joins the SO (as an adult) is not rational. Facts and firsthand info will not have any effect. Talking "at them" is pointless, the goal must be to get the victim to interact, share their thought and feelings.
Any idea how old Manuela is? I don't think her age was ever mentioned. I also wonder how they managed to both get a green card as dancers/coreographers - they must of had a sponsor. I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with US immigration but getting a green card is an almost impossible achievement for two people who moved to LA just to try and make it in Hollywood. I only mention this because I wondered if her change in status could mean a necessary return to Australia to then get a religious visa. (I volunteered at a immigration advocacy group years ago, and may jaw dropped when I read that they managed to get Green cards so quickly - virtually an impossible feat w/o an employment or family sponsor and even then not easy. I wondered how they managed it.)
If she was approved for a green card due to circumstances that have now changed because she's in the SO, it could be an opportunity for the family to get her back to Australia for a spell if she must have her immigration status adjusted.
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
Unfortunately they went into as if they were dealing with a rational person instead of a piece of property owned by the cult ... and as we all know there is absolutely nothing rational about the sea org.
Being in the sea org is one step below being a crack whore hooker, even pimps give crack whore hookers more than an hour off.
It's real sad to see what Scientology does to a person.
Happy Days
Silver Meritorious Patron
Again, great work Bryan, I sat, watched and cried bit too close to home for me but I thank all involved. The intervention was a great opportunity to make a hairline crack in Manuela's brainwashed state but it may just have been too much; it was a bit of an ambush and in these sits less is best, her indoc definitely kicked in.
If I could turn back time I would approach Fiona's scene totally different and not assume or take for granted that she was in her right mind and control.... hindsight... sigh....
Now Manuela would be under lock and key and receiving PTS/SP tech, auditing et al to reinforce her deluded state with good amount of love bombing to control, unfortunately.
But where there's life there's hope.
Our thoughts are with her family and Yannus.
If I could turn back time I would approach Fiona's scene totally different and not assume or take for granted that she was in her right mind and control.... hindsight... sigh....
Now Manuela would be under lock and key and receiving PTS/SP tech, auditing et al to reinforce her deluded state with good amount of love bombing to control, unfortunately.
But where there's life there's hope.
Our thoughts are with her family and Yannus.
Lone Star
Crusader
I've ignored this thread over the past several days but just watched Seymour's expose on this young lady. Essentially I am just dumbfounded....shocked....and disgusted. How in the world in 2012/2013 can a bright and very talented rising star like her not only just fall for Scientology, but throw it all away and join the Sea Org? I'm not disparaging her personally, I'm just sickened that after all the information that is now out there someone like her can still be brainwashed by what is now the biggest joke of a cult in the world. I don't know, maybe I am a little peeved at her for being so foolish. There's more exposure to the fraud of Scientology than ever before and yet she joins the SO. Wow! Just Wow! Maybe she just never paid attention to the countless reports and stories over the past 5 years.
And from this story she is shown leaving the big blue building in street clothes and in her own car? She's even allowed to meet up with her old friend and partner too? The brainwashing has really taken with her. I feel for all those who are her friends and family. What an ongoing tragedy and loss this is. She's at the peak of her life and it's being wasted on the SO.
I don't know what else to say.
And from this story she is shown leaving the big blue building in street clothes and in her own car? She's even allowed to meet up with her old friend and partner too? The brainwashing has really taken with her. I feel for all those who are her friends and family. What an ongoing tragedy and loss this is. She's at the peak of her life and it's being wasted on the SO.
I don't know what else to say.
Free Minds. Free Hearts
Patron
And it is on Tony O's blog, a very disturbing story, today. http://tonyortega.org/2013/09/02/manuela-oliveira-a-story-of-seduction-intervention-and-betrayal/
Tony O includes a link to the story on Aussie TV - http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/video/watch/18757282/scientology-rescue/
Tony O includes a link to the story on Aussie TV - http://au.news.yahoo.com/today-tonight/video/watch/18757282/scientology-rescue/
CommunicatorIC
@IndieScieNews on Twitter
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RE: The second guessing of how the "intervention" should have been done.
Perhaps in a perfect world, the outcome might have been different had Steve Hassan or others more experienced in cult intervention been involved. But, I tend to think that the results would not have been different. And, dare I say, the way this intervention was done might have actually had more beneficial results.
Just speculating, but here goes. . .
If a "more professional" intervention had been done, the chances are very good that the COS would have cut off any further contact between Manuela and her friendly-loving-supportive interventionists. It seems quite obvious that Scientology policy would order her to disconnect from even speaking to them (on her own determinism of course, lol). If the interventionists attempted to make a 2nd contact, the COS would have grinned and gone to the police to file a stalking/terrorism complaint--in addition to seeking a court Temporary Restraining Order. Both of those events would have been trumpeted in the press as evidence of anti-Scientology "terrorism". Freedom magazine would have chronicled the "real story" of terrorists stealing innocent young adults away from their churches and families. The Religious Freedom Watch website would have shown glorious footage of police talking to the terrorists. It would have been wins galore for the cult.
On the other hand, assuming that the interventionists reasonably only had one chance to talk with Manuela, they went for it with sincerity and truth. Sure, what they were saying might have been too shocking or too much for the anaten dancer to have "confronted". Granted, it might not have been "real" to her. But, where is it written that a "whack on the side of the head" is always an ineffective method to wake someone up? Bryan Seymour used the classical confrontational approach of intrepid journalists (e.g. the ambush at her car) and there is no doubt that she was "enturbulated" but is that necessarily a bad thing?
A lot of cult members were likewise "enturbulated" by the ambush appearance of Anonymous at their orgs. Anonymous joked-and-degraded, spilled sacred secrets about Xenu onto the public walkways in front of cult buildings while Clears and OTs cowered behind curtain-drawn windows inside. Was it ineffective or was it effective? I think it is safe to say that for many, many cult members it was profoundly effective to personally witness the shock-and-awe of Anonymous in their face, saying the most abominably blasphemous things about their leaders (Miscavige, Hubbard) and their sacred tech (Xenu, Fair Game, Disconnection) and their crimes.
Many former Scientologists actually credit Anonymous as the inciting incident that sparked their eventual departure from the cult.
Yes, it's shocking. Yes, its horrific for a Scientologist to hear those "out reality" things from non-cult members, or heaven-forbid, from EX Scientologists.
I really think that in Manuela's case they had ONE CHANCE AND ONE CHANCE ONLY to try and reach her at some meaningful level. I think they probably succeeded in many ways--not to mention the fact that she certainly ended up in Ethics to handle all the SPs that she attracted to the org. Does anyone doubt that this might end up being the single factor that gets her out of the Sea Org? Not Manuela "cogniting" that the Sea Org is insane, but the Sea Org "cogniting" that having Manuela around is attracting international media attention and viral public outrage.
What I am saying, I guess, is that creating a big loud mess around Manuela might actually be the best thing that ever happened because they might offload her if the flaps continue.
Life always gets very weird around Scientology, so sometimes it's not a bad thing to break their policies and rules. Like one of their rules of happy living: "Only cause those effects on others that they can easily have." That rule clearly doesn't actually work when dealing with cult criminals and Ron-zombies, so I think the interventionists might actually have done a splendid job!
RE: The second guessing of how the "intervention" should have been done.
Perhaps in a perfect world, the outcome might have been different had Steve Hassan or others more experienced in cult intervention been involved. But, I tend to think that the results would not have been different. And, dare I say, the way this intervention was done might have actually had more beneficial results.
Just speculating, but here goes. . .
If a "more professional" intervention had been done, the chances are very good that the COS would have cut off any further contact between Manuela and her friendly-loving-supportive interventionists. It seems quite obvious that Scientology policy would order her to disconnect from even speaking to them (on her own determinism of course, lol). If the interventionists attempted to make a 2nd contact, the COS would have grinned and gone to the police to file a stalking/terrorism complaint--in addition to seeking a court Temporary Restraining Order. Both of those events would have been trumpeted in the press as evidence of anti-Scientology "terrorism". Freedom magazine would have chronicled the "real story" of terrorists stealing innocent young adults away from their churches and families. The Religious Freedom Watch website would have shown glorious footage of police talking to the terrorists. It would have been wins galore for the cult.
On the other hand, assuming that the interventionists reasonably only had one chance to talk with Manuela, they went for it with sincerity and truth. Sure, what they were saying might have been too shocking or too much for the anaten dancer to have "confronted". Granted, it might not have been "real" to her. But, where is it written that a "whack on the side of the head" is always an ineffective method to wake someone up? Bryan Seymour used the classical confrontational approach of intrepid journalists (e.g. the ambush at her car) and there is no doubt that she was "enturbulated" but is that necessarily a bad thing?
A lot of cult members were likewise "enturbulated" by the ambush appearance of Anonymous at their orgs. Anonymous joked-and-degraded, spilled sacred secrets about Xenu onto the public walkways in front of cult buildings while Clears and OTs cowered behind curtain-drawn windows inside. Was it ineffective or was it effective? I think it is safe to say that for many, many cult members it was profoundly effective to personally witness the shock-and-awe of Anonymous in their face, saying the most abominably blasphemous things about their leaders (Miscavige, Hubbard) and their sacred tech (Xenu, Fair Game, Disconnection) and their crimes.
Many former Scientologists actually credit Anonymous as the inciting incident that sparked their eventual departure from the cult.
Yes, it's shocking. Yes, its horrific for a Scientologist to hear those "out reality" things from non-cult members, or heaven-forbid, from EX Scientologists.
I really think that in Manuela's case they had ONE CHANCE AND ONE CHANCE ONLY to try and reach her at some meaningful level. I think they probably succeeded in many ways--not to mention the fact that she certainly ended up in Ethics to handle all the SPs that she attracted to the org. Does anyone doubt that this might end up being the single factor that gets her out of the Sea Org? Not Manuela "cogniting" that the Sea Org is insane, but the Sea Org "cogniting" that having Manuela around is attracting international media attention and viral public outrage.
What I am saying, I guess, is that creating a big loud mess around Manuela might actually be the best thing that ever happened because they might offload her if the flaps continue.
Life always gets very weird around Scientology, so sometimes it's not a bad thing to break their policies and rules. Like one of their rules of happy living: "Only cause those effects on others that they can easily have." That rule clearly doesn't actually work when dealing with cult criminals and Ron-zombies, so I think the interventionists might actually have done a splendid job!
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Smurf
Gold Meritorious SP
It's obvious that Manuela is a very confident & headstrong woman who would not have left Scientology despite any intervention. One only has to look at her history to see that. She worked very hard as a dancer & choreographer to rise to the level of success that she did in a dog-eat-dog industry where dancers, especially in Los Angeles, are a dime a dozen and many dancers have short-lived careers because the world of dance is wrought with rejections.
She battled through the rejections & achieved some success in her craft.
Manuela got a load of information from those that tried to help her. She will remember this when she hits rock bottom & comes to the recognition that she was lied to by the cult. I doubt she will remain in the Sea Org for a long period of time. We'll have to wait & see.
She battled through the rejections & achieved some success in her craft.
Manuela got a load of information from those that tried to help her. She will remember this when she hits rock bottom & comes to the recognition that she was lied to by the cult. I doubt she will remain in the Sea Org for a long period of time. We'll have to wait & see.
HelluvaHoax!
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It's obvious that Manuela is a very confident & headstrong woman who would not have left Scientology despite any intervention. One only has to look at her history to see that. She worked very hard as a dancer & choreographer to rise to the level of success that she did in a dog-eat-dog industry where dancers, especially in Los Angeles, are a dime a dozen and many dancers have short-lived careers because the world of dance is wrought with rejections.
She battled through the rejections & achieved some success in her craft.
Manuela got a load of information from those that tried to help her. She will remember this when she hits rock bottom & comes to the recognition that she was lied to by the cult. I doubt she will remain in the Sea Org for a long period of time. We'll have to wait & see.
Excellent observations.
One wonders just how far down "rock bottom" is for some cult members. I recall the case of Peter Schless, composer of the international hit song by Jeffrey Osborne "On The Wings of Love" and others. He was rapidly recruited into the Sea Org where his considerable song writing talents were put to work by the cult to help clear the planet.
By some strange coincidence, once Peter was in the Sea Org, he no longer wrote any hit songs.
Anyone know if he is still in the Sea Org, waiting to hit rock-n-roll bottom?
Miss Pert
Silver Meritorious Patron
I do kinda understand it Lone Star. I don't think I really considered myself a Scientologist until after I did my Purif. I used to be a professional dancer and prior to the purif I was overweight, lethargic and had no motivation. I hadn't danced for about 13 years and during those years had indulged in a shit load of drugs. I had given up the drugs a couple of years before getting involved in the cult but after the purif I felt alive again, I'd lost weight, had more energy and started dancing again, I even started dabbling in singing. At the time I attributed my change to the Purif, it wasn't until many years later that I realised what really happened. To do the purif you are expected to eat properly and you jog for 20 mins before going into the sauna for about five hours. What really happened is that I was actually forced to eat well, drink water (YUK!) and exercise, add to that added vitamins, it was natural that I would become fitter and feel better physically and emotionally.
Manuela was injured and unable to do what she loved most, in her eyes, the cult gave that ability back to her. It doesn't matter that she actually healed naturally or what critical info is out there about the cult, as far as she is concerned, they gave her back her dream. That followed by the love bombing and promises of being able to do that which she loves as part of her work within the cult would make it hard to believe that it could be bad.
I never joined the SO but I did join staff, hopefully Manuela will realise her mistake and get out in the not too distant future. Hopefully she will be as lucky as me and be able to continue her dream when she eventually leaves, though my dream changed due body age and creakiness, however I'm still lucky enough to be doing something I love and am passionate about.
CommunicatorIC
@IndieScieNews on Twitter
[video=youtube_share;58Q0CrKaOJQ]http://youtu.be/58Q0CrKaOJQ[/video]
ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn
Crusader
She may be very talented, but I have to question 'bright'. Let's stop beating around the bush here, it takes a special kind of stupid to join Scientology in 2013, and joining the sea org in 2013 takes that special kind of stupid to a whole new level.
Gib
Crusader
Believe it or not, but he was on the EPF when I entered the SO. Yep, we were bunkies along with a whole lot of other folks in the same room. I believe I talked to him for a few and he said he was a honorary SO member going thru the EPF. I didn't question it further.
After I finished the Welcome to the SO tapes, and then started the next course, why I blew. Says to myself this no life for me.
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