Bunker Scientology is a fee-based religion

[AnonKat]

[video=youtube;YnKXrohsOpA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnKXrohsOpA[/video]

 

[Veda]

[video=youtube;YnKXrohsOpA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnKXrohsOpA[/video]

The video title is misleading, but it serves to illustrate how diplomatic equivocation can lead to misunderstandings.

The question was, "Is Scientology a cult or a religion?"

The response was, "Well, cult is a strong word. I tend to think of Scientology as a religious themed business."

Mark Bunker then cites the criteria for a destructive group, or cult, as outlined by Robert Lifton, so, in the end, his answer to the question is that Scientology is cult.

Yes, Scientology is a cult, and it is a business, although it's more accurately described as a for-profit operation.

Businesses, after all, are required by law to treat their employees in accordance with certain standards.

Lifton's characteristics of Destructive Cults can be found in the back of this book, amongst other places:

 

[Lermanet_com]

It is a temptation, once one gets some media exposure, to give the media what they want, and to sound a bit more reasonable, even "politically correct", it is a seduction, and some are more easily seduced than others..

The problem is, Nothing about $cientology is reasonable, Hubbard bragged about the "incredible chain", saying


"..the incredulity of our data is our best defense" L Ron hubbard

and THAT does work!


--------------------

"The only defense against covert manipulation is to become familiar with the tactics being used upon you" (paraphrased from George Estabrooks, consultant to OSS re covert hypnosis.)

 

[iHateDuplicity]

I have to agree with Lerma on this one.

Bunker should have just flat-out said "Yes, it's a cult" right from the start and he then could have spent the rest of the time making a strong case as to why, rather than hemming and hawing around about why he initially said it wasn't a cult.

"Cult is a strong word." Huh? Since when have any of us been backed off on using the word "cult" to describe Cof$? That's absolutely what it is! And the reporter here sounded prepared to take Cof$ to the mat and just needed Bunker's confirmation of it right from the get-go. Instead, they are debating whether it's a cult or not.

This was a disappointing missed opportunity for greatness.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

I have to agree with Lerma on this one.

Bunker should have just flat-out said "Yes, it's a cult" right from the start and he then could have spent the rest of the time making a strong case as to why, rather than hemming and hawing around about why he initially said it wasn't a cult.

"Cult is a strong word." Huh? Since when have any of us been backed off on using the word "cult" to describe Cof$? That's absolutely what it is! And the reporter here sounded prepared to take Cof$ to the mat and just needed Bunker's confirmation of it right from the get-go. Instead, they are debating whether it's a cult or not.

This was a disappointing missed opportunity for greatness.

Co$ suxxxxxxx...

scientology is an applied religious philosophy. when those who address it are all about auditing and auditor training and maintain their actions in the context of the wisdom of scripture, the bill of rights and the hippocratic oath it can produce some desirable results

numerous posters on esmb write here without using the word cult though i don't think anyone is backing off of the word

deropp in the master game points out that men are liable to use that portion of the mind which is but a labeling device to think with. and those who just label it a cult and stand round yelling "IT'S A CULT! IT'S A CULT" seem to me to be pretty much just spinning their wheels in cow shit

 

[AnonKat]

Co$ suxxxxxxx...

scientology is an applied religious philosophy. when those who address it are all about auditing and auditor training and maintain their actions in the context of the wisdom of scripture, the bill of rights and the hippocratic oath it can produce some desirable results

numerous posters on esmb write here without using the word cult though i don't think anyone is backing off of the word

deropp in the master game points out that men are liable to use that portion of the mind which is but a labeling device to think with. and those who just label it a cult and stand round yelling "IT'S A CULT! IT'S A CULT" seem to me to be pretty much just spinning their wheels in cow shit

Ah this takes me back years

[video=youtube;Ev0QJnYCltc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev0QJnYCltc[/video]

 

[iHateDuplicity]

It's a cult. A cult! A cult, I tell you! I'm sayin' in loud and proud.

What's that? You can't hear me? Oh, well let me turn up the volume:

:dancer:IT'S A CULT! :dancer: ​

 

[Veda]

Scientology has been a cult for a long time.

Excerpt from HCOPL 27 December 1963.

"Treat a bust or a personal office of mine with disrespect and the public falls away."

1961: Security Checking included the question, "Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?"

In a lecture from 1961, Hubbard explained that the reason for the question was that if a person has overts and withholds against the source of Scientology, the person will not get gains.

From the late 1960s onward, through the 1970s, all Orgs and most of the larger missions had this (approximately 5 feet by 4 and a half feet) photo of Hubbard on display, which was applauded many times daily:

Scientology was and is a cult.
​

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Scientology has been a cult for a long time.

Excerpt from HCOPL 27 December 1963.

"Treat a bust or a personal office of mine with disrespect and the public falls away."

1961: Security Checking included the question, "Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?"

In a lecture from 1961, Hubbard explained that the reason for the question was that if a person has overts and withholds against the source of Scientology, the person will not get gains.

From the late 1960s onward, all Orgs and most of the larger missions had this (approximately 5 feet by 4 and a half feet) photo of Hubbard on display, which was applauded many times daily:

Scientology was and is a cult.
​

that's the original

since ron's death this photo has been brilliantly retouched to make ron look beatific

 

[Veda]

that's the original

since ron's death this photo has been brilliantly retouched to make ron look beatific

No, it was not retouched. It was replaced with other Hubbard photos, mostly from the same batch of a rum soused Hubbard, self-photographed, at 5 a.m., pictures.

Hubbard had enough sense not to use these other photos.

From what I understand, after Hubbard was gone, a box, where the other photos were stored, was located.

Supposedly, a "wog" PR firm told Scientology that the pie-faced "fixed glare" Hubbard portrait would drive people away, but that a photo of Hubbard, with head slightly turned, would be more inviting. So these other self-photographed soused Hubbard at 5 a.m. photos started appearing.

 

[Caroline]

No, it was not retouched. It was replaced with other Hubbard photos, mostly from the same batch of a rum soused Hubbard, self-photographed, at 5 a.m., pictures.

Hubbard had enough sense not to use these other photos.

From what I understand, after Hubbard was gone, a box, where the other photos were stored, was located.

Supposedly, a "wog" PR firm told Scientology that the pie-faced "fixed glare" Hubbard portrait would drive people away, but that a photo of Hubbard, with head slightly turned, would be more inviting. So these other self-photographed soused Hubbard at 5 a.m. photos started appearing.

The other photos were lined up on pp. 272-273 of an enormous "photographic biography" titled L. Ron Hubbard Images of a Lifetime (1996).

I was intrigued by these images, particularly because the following reference to "stiletto through one's cheek" offers a possible explanation for these odd facial scars shared by Hubbard and his "very good friend":

As to my study of Islam, I got a sheikh to teach me Arabic and the practices of ablution, prayer and so on, so that at some future time I might pass for a Moslem among themselves. I had it in my mind to repeat Burton's journey to Mecca sooner or later. I learnt a number of chapters of the Koran by heart. I never went to Mecca, it seemed rather vieux jeu, but my ability to fraternize fully with Mohammedans has proved of infinite use in many ways.

My sheikh was profoundly versed in the mysticism and magic of Islam, and discovering that I was an initiate, had no hesitation in providing me with books and manuscripts on the Arabic Cabbala. These formed the basis of my comparative studies. I was able to fit them in with similar doctrines and other religions; the correlation is given in my 777.

From this man I learnt also many of the secrets of the Sidi Aissawa; how to run a stiletto through one's cheek without drawing blood, lick redhot swords, eat live scorpions, etc. (Some of these feats are common conjurers' tricks, some depend on scientific curiosities, but some are genuine Magick; that is, the scientific explanation is not generally known. More of this later.)

Symonds, J., Grant, K. (Ed.). (1969). the confessions of Aleister Crowley (1989 ed. p. 388). London: Arkana Penguin Books.

 

[Veda]

 

[AnonyMary]

Mark Bunker has been trying to be politically correct with the indies ever since helping Marty Rathbun with his ( then ) terrible website. I don't agree with his veering to the left of the path in this manner but I understand it. He's got a documentary to make and needs the support of everyone in order to make it.

Wise Beard Man, as Anonymous once called heralded him as, is not so wise in my eyes anymore...

 

[AnonKat]

Mark Bunker has been trying to be politically correct with the indies ever since helping Marty Rathbun with his ( then ) terrible website. I don't agree with his veering to the left of the path in this manner but I understand it. He's got a documentary to make and needs the support of everyone in order to make it.

Wise Beard Man, as Anonymous once called heralded him as, is not so wise in my eyes anymore...

 

[PTS]

I do not understand why we are so tempted to turn on our allies? Mark Bunker's many years of action speak for themselves. He's still WBM to me. Petty criticism like this is a very insidious way to undermine him and thereby do the work of the cult for them.

 

[Veda]

Mark Bunker has been trying to be politically correct with the indies ever since helping Marty Rathbun with his ( then ) terrible website. I don't agree with his veering to the left of the path in this manner but I understand it. He's got a documentary to make and needs the support of everyone in order to make it.

Wise Beard Man, as Anonymous once called heralded him as, is not so wise in my eyes anymore...

Well, nowadays Marty Rathbun says he is no longer a Scientologist, and my guess is that by the time the documentary formally debuts, possibly half of the "Independent Scientologists" interviewed will no longer consider themselves Scientologists either.

I hope Wise Beard Man mentions, in the documentary, that being an Independent Scientologist, for most people, is a phase, rather than a permanent destination, and that some of those he interviewed, when they identified as Independent Scientologists, now no longer regard themselves as such.

Most of us also went through such a "phase," and came out the other side, so I think Wise Beard Man can be permitted his "phase" - of a sort.

Traveling down memory lane, from about the year 1999 or a little later:

[video=youtube;XW8eTe_Ank8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW8eTe_Ank8[/video]

 

[Veda]

I do not understand why we are so tempted to turn on our allies? Mark Bunker's many years of action speak for themselves. He's still WBM to me. Petty criticism like this is a very insidious way to undermine him and thereby do the work of the cult for them.

I don't see anyone turning on anyone.

If people can't freely express their views then what's the point?

Mostly what criticism there has been - and there hasn't been much - has been constructive criticism.

 

[AnonKat]

https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Wise_Beard_Man

Mark Bunker (aka "Wise Beard Man", but affectionately called "Beardfag" by some) is a fat guy who recently came to the attention of Anonymous as something of an ally and reliable adviser in the war on Scientology. He rejoined YouTube in early 2008 after his original account was, not surprisingly, removed due to a copyright infringement claim by the Church of Scientology and he spent a week uploading his XenuTV videos; some were of him being assaulted by Scientologists and others were of him putting the Scifags in intellectual checkmate. He works in television which sources tell us was some sort of primitive communication device used before Al Gore invented the internet. He sells DVDs of his exposés about Scientology to raise money for a full length documentary to expose the cult. Also, he has cats that live off the mysterious holy sustenance provided by his beard.

Subsequent to the initial raids on Scifag.com, Wise Beard Man gained E-fame in a JewTube video he made directly addressing Anonymous. In the now famous video he stated he was glad to have so many people willing to take up the Anti-CoS cause, but at the same time he was critical of some of Anon's methods, and he suggested Anon only utilize legal means, as he does, to fight the Scifags. For example, in his video he suggested a movement to revoke the church's tax-exempt status and thus deplete their deep coffers. At first, WBM distanced himself from Anon, and was wary to directly help, out of fear that the Scilons would sic their extensive team of legal professionals on his ass again. Nonetheless, Anonymous took the advice he offered about peaceful protesting seriously, and helped ensure the subsequent successes on 2/10 and 3/15. By successfully convincing Anon to change its strategy, Beardfag, in essence, managed to do the impossible: control the essence of chaos on the Intarwebs.

On 2/10 Wise Beard Man attended the protests in downtown LA and spoke to numerous Anons. He then disappeared for 3 days, causing fears that he had been abducted by Tom Cruise and locked in the actor's infamous closet. However, WBM reappeared on the tubes - explaining his absence by claiming that he suffered a "Temporary Beard Malfunction".

“
I think wise beard man is a pretty cool guy. eh aids Anonymous in the fight against Scientology and doesn't afraid of anything.
„


—Anonymous

 

[Lermanet_com]

Scientology has been a cult for a long time.

Excerpt from HCOPL 27 December 1963.

"Treat a bust or a personal office of mine with disrespect and the public falls away."

1961: Security Checking included the question, "Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?"

In a lecture from 1961, Hubbard explained that the reason for the question was that if a person has overts and withholds against the source of Scientology, the person will not get gains.

From the late 1960s onward, through the 1970s, all Orgs and most of the larger missions had this (approximately 5 feet by 4 and a half feet) photo of Hubbard on display, which was applauded many times daily:

Scientology was and is a cult.
​

The hidden reason Hubbard protected his "image" is from hypnosis technology.

The perceived 'altitude', 'presence' and 'repute' of a hypnotist, increases expectation, which increases the ease of placing a person in a trace, and for $cientology, keeping them in Ron's trance, because Ron, after all was the "expert operator" who was the sole source of the $cientology trance, working through his minions, who strived to duplicate him "100% standardly."

See "How to become an expert operator" in my sig line.

 

[Lermanet_com]

I do not understand why we are so tempted to turn on our allies? Mark Bunker's many years of action speak for themselves. He's still WBM to me. Petty criticism like this is a very insidious way to undermine him and thereby do the work of the cult for them.

I wouldn't characterize it as petty, constructive criticism sometimes helps another, but, not very often...

AND whether $cientology is a religion or cult is the last line legal defense of a psychopolitical terroristic organization doing a rapidly shrinking but still brisk business defrauding the public around the world.

The following words come from a publication called Pseudodoxia Epidemica, written by Sir Thomas Browne in 1646. In between paragraphs ridiculing urine therapy and astrology (both unfortunately still with us), he had this to say about "Saltimbancoes, Quacksalvers, and Charlatans":

For their Impostures are full of cruelty, and worse than any other; deluding not only unto pecuniary defraudations, but the irreparable deceit of death.

Nothing petty about those last four words, either.