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Can the Ex Scn board become Ex Scn?

HolyCow

Patron with Honors
I'm clicking my heels 3 times, shouting "there's no place like home", and hoping Emma, the Good Witch will appear.

It's time there's Really no place like home.

Let the "true believers of tech, or FZ, go to their own little corner of their world of Oz.

So the rest of us, dealing with the real world, can deal and heal in peace. Am I asking too much?

It's like this: The mother of a child killed by a drunk driver has to listen to a drunk driver on the same forum explain why he continues to drink.

If anyone else understands this, I hope you will speak up.
 

Carmel

Crusader
<snip>
Let the "true believers of tech, or FZ, go to their own little corner of their world of Oz.
The "true believers of tech, or FZ" are ex Scientologists too.

So the rest of us, dealing with the real world, can deal and heal in peace. Am I asking too much?
Maybe you are asking too much. After Scn, where ever we may end up 'sitting', we all have a load of mind fuck type crap to deal with while getting there. I don't see that one could ever "heal in peace". "Healing", after being within the ranks of the CofS is a bitch of a road whichever way ya take it, and it's different for everyone. Scn was and is exclusive, thank heavens that ESMB isn't. Everyone is welcome no matter where they sit, and because they are, there are numerous points of view to look at and consider. They all have value, IMO, and are all potentially beneficial to those who want to "heal".

It's like this: The mother of a child killed by a drunk driver has to listen to a drunk driver on the same forum explain why he continues to drink.
Maybe it is. Though that mother would have a better chance of letting go of her angst or hatred or blame or whatever, and have a better chance to heal and move on if she stood in the shoes of that drunk driver and was willing to look at why he continued to drink.

If anyone else understands this, I hope you will speak up.
I think that I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree though. Communicating about all these different viewpoints/perspectives is what gives us understanding about the truth of it all. The truth is sometimes just a bloody bitch of a thing, but IMO, it's ALL these truths that give us the picture, and that in the end help us to see, to let go, and to move on.

Besides that, any and every experience regarding ESMB, is at worst like a lovely walk in the park on a spring day compared to being involved in Scn while within the ranks of the CofS.

Hard cold truths, whatever they are from whatever perspective, are what will ultimately help us all move on. I don't think it's wise to knock 'em, or to wish that they be excluded - They are part of the picture. :)
 
I'm clicking my heels 3 times, shouting "there's no place like home", and hoping Emma, the Good Witch will appear.

It's time there's Really no place like home.

Let the "true believers of tech, or FZ, go to their own little corner of their world of Oz.

So the rest of us, dealing with the real world, can deal and heal in peace. Am I asking too much?

It's like this: The mother of a child killed by a drunk driver has to listen to a drunk driver on the same forum explain why he continues to drink.

If anyone else understands this, I hope you will speak up.



I do understand you, and I am an EX! not a maybe ex or FZ ex.
Sometimes I wish some people who want to talk about how to "run" their "case" etc etc would just piss off and do that in the FZ. Now for the "but" clause:

I think I have realised much more deeply how insidious and mindfucking the cult is by actually "hearing" some of the amazing stuff they come out with. If it wasn't (some of) them appearing quite rational one minute and like seriously mentally ill people the next, I wouldn't have really understood what Ron's mindfuckology does to people.Those are the full blown ones who drank All the coolaid and want more even while they denounce the COS.

There are some people on the board who spend a lot of time arguing against true believers. Some of these arguments/discussions are really enlightening. Exes can be at different stages of understanding the extent of the damage that Ron did and that the COS does, and the "true believers" VS the "true critics" arguments keep bringing out into the open the insidous way that the destruction is caused. Having been in the cult is not enough to understand it, for many people. It is a big subject. The arguments and discussions help people to see different aspects of their experience, and I think, rethink it in a far more comprehensive way than if they were only with people with whom they felt they fully ageed.
I rest some of my case.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I do understand but, I have no problem with it personally.

They are assisting in a big way and the very fact that they do speak out here proves the huge difference between them and the cult.

There is an ignore button too ...

:p
 

myrklix

Patron with Honors
HC, thanks for your initial post.
Carmel & DB, excellent replies -- EXACTLY why this forum exists.
Never, ever communication like this in Scn.
Thanks all.
 

Good twin

Floater
I love the squirrels. I have no interest in practicing any form of Scientology myself at this time. I can't imagine anything happening in the future that would entice me to do so.

That being said...I love the squirrels. It's a process... getting out. It happens in slow motion even while moving quickly. There are layers of filters to lift off. If the Freezone didn't exist and the squirrels weren't selling hope it would have been much more difficult for me to begin to look.

When you first start to look it is near impossible to give up the dream especially the goal of getting "up the bridge". For disaffected and barely out Scientologists the Freezone and squirrels provide hope. They make it okay to look. They make it easier to let go of the dream because you don't have to do it all at once.

Plus they are really nice people and they are my friends. The people on this board who are openly protech never start any trouble. It's the mixed message guys who smell like the swampy stuff under the bridge to total horse crap that cause trouble around here. Being able to talk to Scientologists who know I am out is a freedom that I appreciate and enjoy.

Sayin...
 
I'm clicking my heels 3 times, shouting "there's no place like home", and hoping Emma, the Good Witch will appear.

It's time there's Really no place like home.

Let the "true believers of tech, or FZ, go to their own little corner of their world of Oz.

So the rest of us, dealing with the real world, can deal and heal in peace. Am I asking too much?

It's like this: The mother of a child killed by a drunk driver has to listen to a drunk driver on the same forum explain why he continues to drink.

If anyone else understands this, I hope you will speak up.

As painful as it may be to the mother of a child who was killed by a drunk driver, to listen to him explain why he continues to drink, he has every right to continue to drink as long as he does not drink and drive. I have no problem with Freezoners continuing their journey of Hubbard's fantasy in the Freezone, as long as they do not recruit people into Hubbard's delusional fantasy without explaining to them the end result. If they are up front about about the final result of Hubbard's tech turning them into audit junkies who will need spend the rest of their lives searching for imaginary spiritual parasites in a hypnotic trance pretending they are gaining spiritual powers, then more power to them. I like playing video games once in a while too.
 

Div6

Crusader
I'm clicking my heels 3 times, shouting "there's no place like home", and hoping Emma, the Good Witch will appear.

It's time there's Really no place like home.

Let the "true believers of tech, or FZ, go to their own little corner of their world of Oz.

So the rest of us, dealing with the real world, can deal and heal in peace. Am I asking too much?

It's like this: The mother of a child killed by a drunk driver has to listen to a drunk driver on the same forum explain why he continues to drink.

If anyone else understands this, I hope you will speak up.

I have to respectfully dis-agree.
It was interest in "the tech" that got a lot of people in.
It is the application of "communication" that allows people to look and read and reply in their own space and time.
If you try to restrict that, you cut the power of "understanding" that occurs otherwise.

You don't want that, do you?


Really, if it upsets you that much, start your own forum. The tradition on ESMB is "free and open". I realize there are countries that have no such traditions, and squashing communication is an acceptable method of control.
But that is not what ESMB is about.

Why would you want to restrict free speech?
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
Holy Cow,

I sure understand how you feel. . .I also really value ESMB because of the freedom to express whatever you are feeling.

When I first came here I knew that I was done with Scientology, but I was confused about what exactly was wrong with it. . .through hearing many different viewpoints I feel like I've been able to "find my level" on it. I am grateful to be able to express that yes, I had wins on some things, and not be ostracized for it. It's just that kind of openness that I've found so helpful.

But, I know that it is hard when you are extricating yourself from the Church. Try pming someone that you really respect; I found that to be helpful. . . . also there is the "ignore" function here, so if someone in particular is really upsetting to you, you can get them "off your lines". :)

-TL
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
As painful as it may be to the mother of a child who was killed by a drunk driver, to listen to him explain why he continues to drink, he has every right to continue to drink as long as he does not drink and drive. I have no problem with Freezoners continuing their journey of Hubbard's fantasy in the Freezone, as long as they do not recruit people into Hubbard's delusional fantasy without explaining to them the end result. If they are up front about about the final result of Hubbard's tech turning them into audit junkies who will need spend the rest of their lives searching for imaginary spiritual parasites in a hypnotic trance pretending they are gaining spiritual powers, then more power to them. I like playing video games once in a while too.

For the record, the FreeZone is a loose collection of people whose ideas have been influenced by their participation in Scientology, but not all of them practice "the Tech" as writ by Ron. Avatar is considered FZ, but it is quite different from Scientology. Enid Vien's work is highly different from Scio, nearly unrecognizable. Even amongst the more Ron-ish FZers, there are many who hold the OT Levels as suspect, and only really do Grades-type processing. I beg you to show me where Konchok Penday's UCP addresses BTs or any other specific case phenomena. Brushing the FZ with such broad strokes is indicative of not really understanding what the FZ is. Many FZ practices are the baby, not the bathwater, operations.

That said, there's some crackpots out there! I don't see any problems with the ClearBird site, with Idenics, or with Metapsychology (and they DO address such beings, though with NO emphasis on that area: there is no CLEAR IN DANGER type bullshit, nor is there any push towards handling that stuff: you handle it if you find it there, and you aren't programmed to find it there). As always, when dealing with people who are unregulated, caveat emptor.
 

MostlyLurker

Patron Meritorious
I love squirrels too.

I like that the good things that exist in Scientology are available and practiced outside of the cult, by free thinking people.Scientologists must know that they will not lose anything by leaving the church.

(This is not an endorsement of the Tech, but a stance toward free choice).
 
For the record, the FreeZone is a loose collection of people whose ideas have been influenced by their participation in Scientology, but not all of them practice "the Tech" as writ by Ron. Avatar is considered FZ, but it is quite different from Scientology. Enid Vien's work is highly different from Scio, nearly unrecognizable. Even amongst the more Ron-ish FZers, there are many who hold the OT Levels as suspect, and only really do Grades-type processing. I beg you to show me where Konchok Penday's UCP addresses BTs or any other specific case phenomena. Brushing the FZ with such broad strokes is indicative of not really understanding what the FZ is. Many FZ practices are the baby, not the bathwater, operations.

That said, there's some crackpots out there! I don't see any problems with the ClearBird site, with Idenics, or with Metapsychology (and they DO address such beings, though with NO emphasis on that area: there is no CLEAR IN DANGER type bullshit, nor is there any push towards handling that stuff: you handle it if you find it there, and you aren't programmed to find it there). As always, when dealing with people who are unregulated, caveat emptor.

I don't have a problem with people indulging in the Freezone an more than people jacking off to internet porn or role playing in internet simulation games. If you want to stimulate yourself by living in a fantasy world then knock yourself out, but do not recruit people under false pretenses. Be upfront and honest that what you are doing in nothing more than escaping reality by living in Hubbard's fantasy world of hypnotic trances, imaginary Body Thetans, and cheesy 1950s science fiction.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
See, that's the sort of thing that either shows ignorance, or deliberate sticking of the fingers in ears and screaming "LA LA LA LA LA".

I'm not recruiting. Nobody said anything about living in a fantasy world, hypnotic "trances" are almost completely undefined, and the idea that people working systematically through issues that bother them is not delusional or unhealthy. I'm quite upfront and honest.

I do like science fiction. I do like roleplaying, and internet porn is SWEET!

Now go back to the real world, whatever you consider that to be.
 
See, that's the sort of thing that either shows ignorance, or deliberate sticking of the fingers in ears and screaming "LA LA LA LA LA".

I'm not recruiting. Nobody said anything about living in a fantasy world, hypnotic "trances" are almost completely undefined, and the idea that people working systematically through issues that bother them is not delusional or unhealthy. I'm quite upfront and honest.

I do like science fiction. I do like roleplaying, and internet porn is SWEET!

Now go back to the real world, whatever you consider that to be.

I never said you were recruiting anyone, but Let me ask you a serious question, what is the point of Freezoner's having people record "Success Stories" and then publishing them if not to recruit?

I have a problem with Freezoners doing what ever it is they are tring to do, but please don't even try to compare Hubbard's mind control "Tech" to working systematically through issues that bother people. It is mind control designed to advance Hubbard's totalitarian cult, sure some of it may help you uncover repressed emotions and just you a temporary sense of euphoria, but more than likely it will create even more mental baggage for you to contend with down the road as we have seen countless times.

Just the fact that people in Freezone continue to pretend that the state of "Clear" and OT are any more real than Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny is a problem in itself.

And as far as going back to the real world ... I never left.
 

nexus100

Gold Meritorious Patron
A nasty issue with Scientology is unconscious application long after the main body has been rejected. There are many little triaps in this stuff that add up to a big trap.

Dialogue can bring these unconscious chunks into view. Getting rid of the whole mess is a worthy operation, my opinion. But few if any do that in one swoop.

If you are interested in the subject the likelihood is there is something to find. This board is discovery incarnate if you want it to be, my opinion.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
I never said you were recruiting anyone, but Let me ask you a serious question, what is the point of Freezoner's having people record "Success Stories" and then publishing them if not to recruit?

Oh, that's obvious advertisement, I agree. Not all FreeZoners do this, though, ChuckU. Only those sticking to the "Standard" "Bridge", usually. It's not uncommon for people to put success stories or attestations on their sites, and I don't think that's a bad thing, but I do think that putting them in a forum is a form of advertisment.


I have a problem with Freezoners doing what ever it is they are tring to do, but please don't even try to compare Hubbard's mind control "Tech" to working systematically through issues that bother people.

I think that if you use that "tech" in the same manner as Hubbard proscribed, then you're right, it's not comparable. However, if you use it for the purposes I have described, and which some freezoners agree with, then it fits just fine. Depends on the case. You seem to be talking about Terril. I don't see any others promoting that way on this forum. I would agree with removing Success Stories from this forum. I don't have a problem with Terril linking to them in his posts, where they support some point he's making, or where they will be discussed, but I think just plopping them down is advertising.

It is mind control designed to advance Hubbard's totalitarian cult, sure some of it may help you uncover repressed emotions and just you a temporary sense of euphoria, but more than likely it will create even more mental baggage for you to contend with down the road as we have seen countless times.

Here we agree, particularly if the "auditor" is in it for the money, or for some spiritual quest of his own, rather than following the interests and needs of his "pc".

Just the fact that people in Freezone continue to pretend that the state of "Clear" and OT are any more real than Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny is a problem in itself.

And as far as going back to the real world ... I never left.

Again, not all FreeZoners agree with terms like Clear and OT, except as idealized states not actually obtainable but giving a DIRECTION.

I never left, either! Kewl!
 

Reasonable

Silver Meritorious Patron
So the rest of us, dealing with the real world, can deal and heal in peace. Am I asking too much?

I respectfully think you are asking too much. I really got a lot from auditing. I know many who did.
The nice thing is I would never ask you to get auditing. Maybe it doesn't work for you, maybe it made you worse off. I won't make you wrong for being 100% against all things related to Scn.

When you were in Scn you probably wanted evryone to agree with you that Scn was the greatest thing. And now that you are against it you want everyone to be against it in the same way as you are.

Maybe this idea that everyone should agree with you is a pattern you have and might want to deal with it in any non-Scn way you like.

In both cases there is a middle ground and maybe that is where the rest of us in the real world are.

I want to live in a real world where we can speak freely and not be shunned for what we say.

However, if you start your own (I hate everything about Scientology) message board with your own rules on who can join I would totally support your doing that . (so long as there is no breaking up of families, mental tourcher and child labor):)
 

Tiger Lily

Gold Meritorious Patron
A nasty issue with Scientology is unconscious application long after the main body has been rejected. There are many little triaps in this stuff that add up to a big trap.

Dialogue can bring these unconscious chunks into view. Getting rid of the whole mess is a worthy operation, my opinion. But few if any do that in one swoop.

If you are interested in the subject the likelihood is there is something to find. This board is discovery incarnate if you want it to be, my opinion.

:iagree: :yes: :goodposting:
 

Kookaburra

Gold Meritorious Patron
Holy Cow, I think that turfing the freezoners from ESMB would be as bigoted as Co$ turfing the freezoners, or disconnecting from those who no longer believe. This is a liberal place, and the mix of ideas and the free speech has great value, IMO.

When people leave Scientology, the don't just walk away from it. They take lots and lots of bits and pieces with them. Almost no-one leaves because they think the tech doesn't work. They leave usually because of some abuse or another, or they are worked to the point of collapse, and they take the body of knowledge with them, the belief system, if you will. It's a whacking great chunk of baggage that they don't think is baggage at first. And they will spend some years sorting it out. "True believers" will gradually find ideas they have that are spawned of something they suddenly find is not quite what they thought it was. They discourse on this forum speeds up that process immensely.
 
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