Church of Scientology Reformation

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by programmer_guy, Mar 24, 2019.

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  1. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    1. All statements made in writings of L. Ron Hubbard, or any other
    similar statements in Scientology publications, that Scientology is a
    science shall be regarded as false until proven otherwise. A public
    statement by the Church of Scientology shall be made in retraction of
    all such previous claims, whether explicit or implied.

    2. All statements made in writings of L. Ron Hubbard, or any other
    similar statements in Scientology publications, that any of Scientology
    practices or "processes" cure any physical or mental maladies shall
    be regarded as false until proven otherwise. A public statement by
    the Church of Scientology shall be made in retraction of all such
    previous claims, whether explicit or implied.

    3. Any and all statements, theories, and "processes" of Scientology
    shall be regarded as open to free debate and even disagreement, in
    private or public forums, without consequent harrassment from the
    Church of Scientology or its related organizations or agents.

    4. The Church of Scientology shall abolish The Rehabilitation Project
    Force nor reinstitute it under another name.

    5. The Church of Scientology shall abolish the "Disconnection" policies
    nor reinstitute them under another name.

    6. The Church of Scientology shall abolish the practice of
    "Suppressive Person" declarations nor reinstitute it under another name.

    7. The Church of Scientology shall prohibit enforced abortions of
    pre-born children by its staff or agents.

    8. The various organizations of the Church of Scientology shall pay
    wages or salaries that are commensurate with the laws of the nation,
    state, or province in which they are located.

    9. The Church of Scientology shall cease and desist from infiltration
    of local police departments that is done to influence selective application
    of the law to its critics and to garner special favor to themselves. To do
    otherwise is a perversion of proper and good government.

    10. The Church of Scientology shall cease and desist from privately
    imprisoning any staff or public for any pretence whatsoever, even if individual
    staff or public is willing to submit to this.

    11. The Church of Scientology shall cease and desist from claiming or
    implying that their Operating Thetan levels of auditing or training will
    embue a practioner with supernatural abilities.

    12. The Church of Scientology shall prohibit its members or any agents
    from committing criminal acts (even petty acts of vandalism) against anyone,
    especially, but not limited to, those who criticize or disagree with its teachings
    or practices. The Church of Scientology shall permit the right of free speech
    without repercussions.

    13. The Church of Scientology shall stop publishing or promoting false
    statements about the life history of L. Ron Hubbard.

    14. It is not the critics of the Church of Scientology, nor the public at
    large, that needs to adjust their attitudes about the Church of Scientology;
    it is the Church of Scientology that needs to change their attitudes about
    their critics and the public at large.
     
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  2. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

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  3. NoIdea

    NoIdea Patron with Honors

    If they did all that, what would be left?

    Furthermore, why bother? What are they going to do, promote themselves like, "There's never been a better time to join the Church of Scientology - we don't imprison people anymore!"

    Better to just power through, go down maintaining your greatness and at least think of yourself as a martyr.
     
  4. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    HaHa! :D

    Maybe:
    1. first half of the Comm Course,
    2. some Self Analysis stuff done in auditing sessions (talk therapy).
    3. Student Hat (hopefully without clay demos).
    4. No more narcissistic dictator (democracy).
    5. CofS would have to obey all laws and regulations of 501(c)3 organizations in the U.S.

    That's about it for my 2 cents opinion.
    Comments?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  5. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    The problem with any reformation ideas is that as soon as the cult fessed up to material wrongdoing, it would get sued into oblivion by thousands of litigants. Not gonna (willingly) happen, even if the Dwarf croaks.

    Paul
     
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  6. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    15. The Church of Scientology agrees to put TP into its FP.
     
  7. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Well, the church routinely admits to selling duff materials and fucked up auditing, and then charges you to fix it. In fact, it's part of its business model. The SP transcriptionists fucked up the books, and you have to buy them all again at your own expense. The auditing you paid upwards of $2000 an intensive for was erroneous, because your auditor was calling F/Ns that didn't have three sweeps of the dial. We're not giving you a refund for that though, because, well, as a thetan you are responsible for EVERYTHING that happens to you, so it's your fault.

    So I don't see any problems in principle with a reformation. GATI & II, the new quantum field super-string e-meter, KTL & LOC, etc were all reformations of a sort. They didn't lead to lawsuits. And I'm guessing that the papers every new Scientologist signs nowadays preclude lawsuits for being delivered an "overt product".

    ETA: But I think that the CoS should release a COB bust, for sale in every org. It will be bigger than the LRH bust, to reflect the fact that COB is a big being, and more expensive, because you can't put a price on what COB has done to keep our spiritual salvation possible. And buying it will be a prerequisite for OTIII. You'll need two before you can attest to OTVII.

    ah;kaj; s alksdjfas o;asdf .

    Oops, sorry. It's difficult to type whilst saluting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  8. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    I'm willing to let the first two items slide but #3 through #14 are absolutely essential ingredients of any CofS reformation.

    I think you've pretty much got everything covered, but I would add:

    15. Abolish the Sea Org. What church needs a paramilitary unit?

    16. Abolish the IAS and allow past donors to recoup the monies they gave.

    17. Issue a general amnesty to all who've been SP declared.

    18. Depose David Miscavige and fully co-operate with all law enforcement investigations into his crimes and atrocities. Excommunicate him for life.

    19. Disband OSA. Permanently.

    20. Reinstate all Scn tech and policy that was minted prior to 1982 and dispose of Miscavige's alterations.

    21. Issue refunds to all who request them, promptly, and with no questions asked.

    22. Put a real board of directors in place. Create real corporate firewalls between the three branches of CofS envisioned by the founder.

    23. Open the books, as all tax exempt organizations do.

    24. Locate all living ex-SO members who were offloaded due to infirmity or old age. Provide funding to assist them through their sunset years.

    25. Calculate back pay for all ex-SO members at a fair and equitable rate, then find them and pay it.

    26. Assemble a team of the top tech terminals on the planet, regardless of status, and have them conduct a long term analysis of Hubbard's work, separating the wheat from the chaff. It's high time they tossed out the unworkable parts of Scientology. I can name quite a few.

    27. Assemble a similar team of the top admin terminals on the planet, regardless of current status, and have them cull the unworkable parts of the organization's policies. I'm sure we can all name quite a few.

    28. Put all of the basic books online for free. Roll back prices for services to 1970s levels to make Scn affordable for the average person.

    29. End the criminal fraud known as the Ideal Org program and sign over the deeds to all the "new" orgs to those who paid for them.

    30. Convert the Freewinds to an actual cruise ship. Disband the FSSO and run the ship like any other luxury cruise line. The public would love it, and it would finally be an honest business.

    31. End the international events. Period. Everyone hates them and Hubbard forbid them.

    32. End the corporate monopoly on delivering Dn and Scn. Let the independent groups sink or swim without undue interference or legal threats.

    33. Get rid of the top heavy management structure. There are too many chiefs and not enough braves. Bring the ratio of staff vs public back to some semblance of reality.

    34. Stop over-promising and under-delivering. Sell the truth and no more.

    35. Last but not least - paint Big Blue a respectable color!
     
  9. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Oh plenty would be left.

    They wouldn't be unlike most other religious organizations at that point. People are going to believe what they want, so there would still be a church for those who want to practice it.
     
  10. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    All that's needed to "fix" Scientology is to abandon it. All of it. Nothing of value would be lost and a lot of evil would be gone.
     
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  11. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    .
    That was a very pleasantly simple resolution of the 4th Dynamic parasite called Scientology!

    Thus, when Scientology is gone, it brings up a whole new Ksw-Koolaid-Koan. . .

    If a needle falls in a forest
    And no one is around to see the read
    Does it mean there is no reactive mind?

    .
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  12. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    I think the church and its subsidiary organisations should simply be disbanded. The government should appoint a liquidator, one that would not be linked with the church previously in any way. The assets and property should be sold at an auction.

    The remaining funds should be distributed equally amongst all living members, past or present, regardless how many courses and which courses they took.

    If after that independents will want to audit one another or experiment further with tech or talk-therapy one another, I'm totally cool with that.

    At that point I could even audit people who would voice such a desire. My price would be 0.5 l can of lager beer per hour of training ;)
     
  13. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I agree with your overall concept but have a different perspective on how the money should be divided up.
    I believe the true perpetrators of the con should have that factored into their share.
    Those who suffered the most through broken families, under paid sea org staff, the whales that gave up their assets and got nothing in return, etc. should get more shares of the payout.
    Those who were tricked into forfeiture of their futures in life should get enhanced benefits as well.
    But the merry band of sycophants at the top of the pyramid should not get a thing and should be turned loose on the streets minus any compensation as repayment for the lives they ruined.
     
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  14. guanoloco

    guanoloco As-Wased

    I think someone should don those boots in the sky and pick themselves up by the bootstraps and finish Ron's postulate and Clear this mudball!

    We need a Standard terminal to make it go right and slam in KSW!
     
  15. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Exactly!

    Like all those who made and are still making thousands of $$$$ from fsm commissions and fund raising like IAS...

    They are the rats of the COS boat, and are easily recognised; they are the last ones to escape the sinking ship.
    :overreact:
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  16. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    I don't think any of that is measurable. Any "division of the pie" will be controversial and unjust.

    Examples:

    1. Should 2nd and 3rd gen persons get more because they did not have a choice?
    2. Sea Org staff were underpaid, true. But as a group, they also caused the most damage.
    3. Everyone was "tricked" into forfeiture of a part of their lives and/or money. How do we decide who was more tricked?
    4. It is a bit of a folly to assume that declared people who got disconnected from family members suffer more. I got declared, my mother disconnected with me. I'm perfectly happy with that - I would not willingly reconnect with her, even if she left CoS.
    5. Do we pay more to those who blew first (and thus contributed least to the con)? Or do we pay more to the ones who suffered the longest? Wouldn't the latter end up with a paradox of: "Those who stayed until the bitter end and fought the hardest to support CoS get the most"?
    6. Aside from the obvious DM case, where do we draw the line who is "top of the pyramid"? Some of the people near David are 2nd gen kids who had little choice and never knew a different life. I'm not saying what they do is justified, but I refuse to put all of them in one bag. Blame has to be seen on a case-by-case basis. We should avoid making "grey goo" even out of high ranking members.
    7. Ok, assume we somehow draw the line and decide who are the bad guys at the "top of the pyramid". What about those who were at the top of the pyramid, but left? Rinder for example - he did a lot of dreadful things as ED, do we let him off the hook just because he blew?
    8. OSA and ethics officers. Do we remove them from the pool entirely, or do we go on a case-by-case basis?
    9. Do we treat differently those who gave donations as opposed to those who paid for courses?
    10. How do we measure and value the tons of work everyone did. Obviously some jobs were more valuable than others, but some of the most specialized and valuable were also the most destructive for members.
    11. Those who had recruitment success. Do we deduct money for each person he/she recruited?

    I can go on...


    To me, the questions are simply far too numerous and there won't be any good, obvious answers. No division will ever be fair.

    Thus I think my idea of "everyone gets the same share" is at least unbiased, transparent and free of any sort of identity-group-gerrymandering.

    I think I could agree that if we find high ranking members who are proven guilty of criminal offences, we can remove them from the pool. But that's the extent of unbiased "narrowing of the pool" that I can see.
     
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  17. I suggest reducing number 12 in the original post to simply "The Church of Scientology shall permit the right of free speech without repercussions." Most of #12 is covered by #9, and should be moved there. Disband OSA in #9. The "Church" is still free to disregard any constructive criticism, and stay "true to LRH". And people who disagree with some idea or policy are still free to disagree.

    (Is OSA involved in "safepointing", creating "good PR", or are they only involved in negative stuff like infiltrating police departments and hiring PIs to harass? I'm a never-in, so I don't know. Perhaps #9 should be expanded into two points, one dedicated to outlawing the infiltration and safepointing, and the other involving harassing. Or perhaps #9 should *_not_* be expanded into two points, I don't know.)

    Several other things that are semi-related:

    "Based on a short summary of each course (made freely available to anyone at any time), parishioners will be allowed to choose which courses, services or rundowns they would like to take before paying for them"*. They would not have to take everything on the bridge.

    "Everyone is allowed to take the OT levels -- no level of instruction will ever be 'invitation-only'" for any reason.

    I would like to put something here about "Prerequisite courses will be kept to a minimum" but that would invite Staff/Sea Org/DM to slowly add prerequisites because they really believe they are necessary, even if they are not. This would eliminate the idea of "not being required to take everything on the bridge" above.

    "NO certificates, awards or rundowns can ever be canceled". This means nobody can ever be made to re-do services, courses or rundowns. (I'm surprised re-doing things hasn't caused more Scientologists to leave over the years than it already has.)

    "NO courses can be changed or re-issued, and previous "issues" of courses shall still be considered as good as their current versions. Also, courses completed by parishioners that are no longer offered (SHSBC?) shall be considered relevant, valid completions.


    * I have played a couple of CDs from the "Anatomy of the Human Mind" Congress on my home audio system. He can talk for a whole CD and utter 3 or 4 main points that I could cover in 3 minutes. I can't understand how LRH can mesmerize people with his yammering. Honestly, if people are promised "Homo Novis" abilities in the short "course summary", and then they suffer through CD after CD of dreck, I can't imagine how anyone would still want to take more courses. But if they want to, they can.

    I am a never-in, and what I just wrote is written from the standpoint of a "public dilletante". Other posters have covered the issues covered by staff/Sea Ogres very nicely. I salute them and congratulate them for GETTING OUT.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  18. Voodoo

    Voodoo Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow

    Hubbard designed the training side of the Bridge along the lines of similar academic regimens.

    It starts off at learning the simple basics of the subject, then guides the student through progressively more complex steps until the student reaches a certain level of education and practical application. At that point, a student is classified as having reached a certain level of mastery over the subject.

    Continuing their training, a student can attain higher and higher degrees of classification, much like the various degrees one earns in college or university.

    I wouldn't scrap that part of the training layout.

    Oh, and as far as the OT levels are concerned, I wouldn't touch them with your thetan!
     
  19. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    I don't believe the structured church should be saved. But I'm going to play devil's advocate here and speak from a reformist position:
    Many churches have clergy or monks. You are not making an argument why they should be abolished.

    Folks knew what they were doing when they paid. Perhaps the money should be invested in actual efforts to help people around the world, but I would never just give it back to the donors. That'd be criminal.
    Oh heck no! Case-by-case only.

    The normal honest people who got declared are all over the news and rightfully so. Yet I personally led investigations into people who stole from other members, pressured subordinates for sexual favors or engaged in other sorts of actual malicious activities.

    What I mean to say: Some of these people really deserved to be declared. They would have been kicked out by any other church, be it Catholicism or Rabbinic Judaism. Every religion needs to draw the line somewhere.

    I can agree, but we would still need some form of organisation that would investigate scandals within the church, possible criminal activities etc.

    If you want to disband OSA and hand everything to ethics (which was my fav idea that I tried to promote back in the day - hardy har har), then fine.

    But do not leave things hanging in the air if you want to remain in a large church structure. Every church needs someone to investigate possible abuses.

    Aye, entirely agreed. I second these motions!
    Especially 24 - couldn't agree more.
    It would be wrong to prevent changes to courses and tech, because this would bring stagnation and force us to leave obvious errors when spotted. Instead, corrected courses should be available for free to all those who took the "previous version".

    Treat it as a free patch for a software you already bought...

    ...see, a computer metaphor! Lafayette R.H would be proud of me :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  20. tesseract

    tesseract Patron with Horrors

    [Insert joke about island of stability] :D :p :moon: