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Commodore's Messenger tells all

Discussion in 'Life After Scientology' started by Veda, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Another Commodore's Messenger musters the courage to tell her story:

    First of a series.

    The cult is attempting to discourage the children abused by Hubbard and Scientology from speaking out.
    Free Will and Little David like this.
  2. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!


    A lovely lady ( she looks so young)
    Glad she decided to write her story as a LRH messenger. (I never heard her name before though)

    It's a good thing to speak out since it allows a therapeutic process and to contribute for the truth to be told and to get the record straight..especially with LRH...

    Good Luck to her!;)
    HelluvaHoax! and Little David like this.
  3. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster More Skeptical Than You

    Personally, I think the title of "Commodore's Messenger" should have been retired with Ron Hubbard's death in 1986.

    I suppose that will offend most of those folks, though.

    What we really had after 1988 is "Miscavige's Messengers" :angry:

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist
  4. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Cognitive dissonance handlings.

    Commode messengers is the appropriate name for it was their name

    history records are not to be erased because of one's death.

    It may offend those guys in the freezone, but Ron, the humanitarian, was the only one to use a dozen of kids as his personnal slaves crew..Actually it has been said he tried to get orphans to build a larger pool of slave kids....
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  5. TheSneakster

    TheSneakster More Skeptical Than You

    Hmmm, well I've been getting my facts about the CMO primarily from Ron Hubbard's closest personal Messenger Janis Grady since well before she published her first book. By the way, I was one of those regularly encouraging her to publish a book, but she could not for years due to Miscavige effectively holding her father hostage.

    You say "it has been said.." but not by whom - certainly not Janis - who is not in the Freezone, either.
    Clay Pigeon likes this.
  6. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    The fact that that hideous toad like creature (hubbard) and miscavige used/use any children at all for anything whatsoever is repugnant to any normal human being.

    I wish Sarita all the luck in the world with her venture.
    Operating DB, Type4_PTS and Enthetan like this.
  7. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    LRH used his cult to create orphans that served him as slaves.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    Operating DB likes this.
  8. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    As much as I respect Janis Grady, it's impossible to overlook the fact that her editor was a dedicated Scientologist who is currently the HCO Exec Sec for the Advanced Org of the Great Plains.

    Take a look at the, frankly, delusional, 'Hidden Philosophy' piece, above, edited by the same person.

    Accounts by multiple Hubbard child servants (slaves really, since they were supposed to be literal extensions of his personality and "intention") would be a good idea, rather than relying on only one account.

    Hopefully, more former Hubbard child servants will come forward to add to the available information.

    On ESMB, we were fortunate to have 'Cowboy' who made a great many informative posts.

    Sarita was brought into Scientology at nine and became a Commodore's Messenger" at 14 in 1981, which would seem to indicate that it was after Hubbard had fled into deep hiding to avoid the consequences of his criminal actions, while his wife was in the process of being sent to federal prison.

    I don't know if she ever saw Hubbard, but she was definitely in then next circle outward, and worked under Hubbard.

    She was a "Commodore's Messenger" even by your definition.

    At the age of 56 this man discovered Xenu, told people he was the hero of the galaxy, made himself the "Commodore" of an ultra totalitarian cult within a cult, and surrounded himself with adolescent girls who were his absolute servants.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  9. janisgrady

    janisgrady Patron

    I have no idea who the HCO Exec Sec for the Advanced Org of the Great Plains even is and I have no idea what or where the Advanced Org of the Great Plains is or that such exists but I do know for sure that they were not the editor of either of my books.

    Karen Pressley the author of Escaping Scientology and well known critic of Scientology was the editor of my first book as stated inside the cover and Dan Koon the co-author of Ruthless with Ron Miscavige, also a critic of Scientology was the editor of my 2nd book which is also stated at the front of the book.

    Both my books have been sidechecked and supported by several other ex Commodore's Messengers who also worked directly with L. Ron Hubbard for years along myself such as my sister Terri Gillham-Gamboa, Diana Reisdorf, Lois Jory-Reisdorf, Jill Goodman and Gale Reisdorf-Irwin and though my ex-sister-in-law Doreen (Doe) Gillham passed away many years ago, my 2nd book includes quotes from her that she wrote for her own book which was never published. It was also sidechecked and supported by many ex high ranking Sea Org officers listed in the acknowledgement section of the book and several others who did not wish to be mentioned.

    I hope this clarifies that my book is not just one account but includes many.
    dchoiceisalwaysrs and Leland like this.
  10. Cherub

    Cherub Back from the Dead

    WoW! Does anyone know what happened to Jill Goodman? She was the youngest Clear at the time and her mother Merle Goodman -- where are they now?

    The Cherub
  11. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Maybe you should contact the AO of the Great Plains because they're telling people their HCO Exec Sec edited your books.
  12. No One

    No One a girl is no one

    Hi Janis!!
    Are there any plans to have the 2nd and future additional books in your series converted into audio book?
    That would be fantastic. :rose::love8:
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  13. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Continuing in the spirit of hearing from many viewpoints on the topic of Hubbard, Commodore's Messengers, and the Flagship, below is, mostly, a re-posting of a collection of 'Cowboy's' posts. (Note: When transferred from the old MB to the new, double spacing becomes triple spacing. Short of a time consuming procedure, there's no way for me to change that. My apologies.)

    From the 1946 'Affirmations':
    You cannot now accumulate karma for you are a master adept. Your voice is low and compelling to them... destroys their will to resist... Your writing has a deep hypnotic effect on people and they are always pleased with what you write...Your psychology is advanced and true and wonderful. It hypnotizes people. It predicts their emotions, for you are their ruler.

    I can make Napoleon look like a punk.
    From L. Ron Hubbard's 'Excalibur' letter, 1938​

    And from the 12 February 1967 Policy Letter 'Admin Know-How, the Responsibility of Leaders', a.k.a. The Bolivar Policy Letter - written shortly after the founding of the Sea Org - on the topic of how a subordinate should relate to his "power":

    [The power asks] 'What are those dead bodies doing at the door'. And if you [the subordinate] are clever, you never let it be known HE [the power] killed them - that weakens you and also hurts the power source. 'Well, boss about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn't like me'. 'Well', he'll say if he really is a power, 'Why are you bothering me with it if it's done and you did it. Where's my blue ink?...

    ...always push power in the direction of anyone on whose power you depend. It may be more money for the power, or more ease, or a snarling defense of the power to the critic, or even the dull thud of one of his enemies in the dark, or the glorious blaze of a whole enemy camp as a birthday surprise...

    ...Real powers are developed by tight conspiracies of this kind... and if they are right and also manage their man [the power] and keep him from collapsing from overwork, bad temper or bad data, a kind of juggernaut builds up.

    I can make Captain Bligh look like a Sunday School teacher.
    1969, 'Discipline, SPs, and Admin'​

    The primary form of abuse by Hubbard of children was psychological. Denied normal childhood, and adolescence, they became extensions of a cult leader - and that was considered an honor and a privilege, with parents eagerly giving their children to the Commodore (a.k.a. "Source") so that they may serve him.

    These old posts cover a little of it.

    In saddle brown from former Commodore's Messenger, 'Cowboy':

    This is where the cowboy rides away. Love that George Strait song.

    Guys and gals, it has been a pleasure chatting with you. To have shared some experiences was cathartic.

    I have never been prouder than when the old man placed his hand on my shoulder and validated me for a complicated project which I took care of for him. I've also never been more devastated than when I was berated for some real or imagined transgression, my hand shaking as I struck a lighter and reached across to light the old man's cigarette. The other messengers would visibly pull back from me, knowing that being associated with me would perhaps make them also the subject or his ire.

    I've never been more emotional than when I would witness people's lives ripped asunder. I've been ordered to mete out punishments which I knew the receiving party didn't deserve. I've seen well intentioned staff members, pale with lack of sleep, waiting for words of approval, only to be chastised, or, in some cases, even worse.

    So many images flash through my mind as I consider again what i went through in Scn. The sight of the ship at dock as I flew overhead in a commercial plane, arriving for the first time. The reality of my bunk, the smell of stale sweat in the humid air, people off duty scouring the under-decks looking for cockroach nests, in order to earn the few extra dollars the extermination of the cockroach nests would bring in bounty.

    The first time I saw Hubbard, the emperor, surrounded by his entourage.... and I realized that.... he looked like a person. His face was pitted and craggy, his hair not the golden mane I'd expected but thinning and shot with gray and vestiges of the famous red from his photos, his corpulence, was not what I'd expected.

    And the first time I saw him scream at a messenger, this physically intimidating (to a child) adult shouting so loud at a cringing messenger that spittle was flying, the messenger whiter than her clothing, shaking under the intensity of his wrath.

    Was this the God-like entity who had opened the door to my spiritual salvation?

    Then, a moment watching Hubbard walking the decks beside HRH, seeing him as, of all things, a son, wanting approval from his father. What must Harry Ross have thought of his boy with his own ship, dressed as a Commodore and surrounded by scantily clad young girls?

    Long lines of crew in the airport as we left Curacao, Quentin smiling and being Quentin as we waited, only to arrive a few hours later in a land of milk and honey; endless hot water and the beautiful beaches of Daytona... the relief and the smiles obvious on everyone's faces at the change in lifestyle.

    Mindless orders to RPF those I thought Hubbard considered his friends, meter readings convincing him that his estimate of them was incorrect, and that they harbored some ill will, to see the RS/RPF craze strike like a plague, decimating the ranks of those around him, the circle growing closer and closer....only to eventually find out that these people's servitude, months or years in the RPF, were pointless, the people had been judged and convicted without a jury to a life in many ways worse than a prison... for only imagined infractions.

    My deepest secret, that I once didn't report an RS, because I knew what it would have meant to the person....

    The coldness I saw in Hubbard toward others, including his family, the distance he kept... the absence of the qualities I would have envisioned most in a spiritual leader.... qualities one might have imagined in Christ, or Ghandi, but Hubbard was bereft of such qualities. I was ordered to barge into someone's room at three in the morning and threaten to assign the man to the RPF if he didn't get his ass up and work more on a project, despite the fact that he'd been up for 24 hours, to find him in his wife's arms, stunned as I delivered the message... then his asking me how he could possibly satisfy Hubbard.... He wanted desperately to please the old man, but couldn't imagine how. I think he would have taken his own life if Hubbard wanted him to. The agony of trying his best but his best (which was good) not coming close to satisfying Hubbard. The vile and derisive names Hubbard called him by, the snide remarks to the messengers about this man...

    Steve Irwin's acknowledgement that he must be damned to the darkest of all Hells because he'd been slapped by Hubbard... Irwin had always been a corker, light hearted, jokingly calling Quentin, before his death, by his nick name, "Son of Source".

    Sleepless days spent vetting secrets from documents in fear that the FBI would raid any moment, afraid I'd fall asleep and miss blacking out, or cutting out some secret which the FBI would find and destroy Scn with, and it would be my fault because after two days with no sleep I fell asleep....

    Phil Valinsky dying in session at SU and the contortions to hide the truth... and then seeing a copy of his official granting of 21 years of leave, with orders to report back to duty in his new body... I remember thinking how come he got 21 years to live childhood in his new body before reporting back to duty, yet I started working at about 12. He get's a childhood and I don't? BTW, did Phil ever report back in his new body?

    Bribes, threats, manipulations, reaching out across the country to bend people to Hubbard's will.

    A man steadily losing more and more of his mind... Finally enfeebled, his hands shaking, gaunt, lucid only part of the time, confined to bed for most of the day for weeks on end... Human. Undivine. Unmiraculous.

    The bonding of my friends, my fellow messengers, our gazes at one another voicing what we could not speak of.... I don't mean to speak demeaningly of any military sacrifices made by our armed forces, but we messengers, in many ways, became a Band of Brothers. To be in your teens and living on a few hours sleep a night for weeks or months, the pressures placed upon us, the yelling... but, at the same time, craving approval... the feeling of being on top of the world when some deed one had performed was acknowledged with a "Well Done".

    Even as I left, my heart ached for Hubbard, for the conversations neither I nor anyone could ever have with him, remembering the lives he'd ruined... that I had sometimes ruined in his name, but still feeling a bond with him, though my candid assessment of the truth of Scn was forcing me to depart. Stockholm Syndrome? Maybe.

    In the decades since I left, when I've occasionally met up with a former comrade and heard of the tragedies befalling those who stayed behind, my heart ached for them. Of the legal manipulation to avoid the truth. Can the world not understand the pressures that a dedicated staff member would answer to that would make them give false testimony in a heart beat, gladly, to impeach detractors of the church, or to protect leaders of the church from prosecution?

    Shelly Miscavige, a girl I called my friend, what sort of life are you suffering through now?

    I'm deluged still with thoughts and sorrows and regrets, acceptance of the harm I directly caused others through following orders. Hitler's orders to his staff were not enough to free them from consequences for their War Crimes. I can make excuses, but, in many ways I caused harm. I remember convincing someone to join the SO, to bring her family and young children in, to see her a year later in the RPF, her kids being worked like adults, being haunted by the unspoken accusation in her glance, "Why did you take me and my family away from the world we knew, for this?" her gaze said to me. Whatever happened to her, I wonder. Did she and her children leave, or did I rob them of their childhood like mine was robbed from me?

    Yes, the cowboy rides away. I'll be back, perhaps. Thanks for your words of encouragement. The gratitude that many of you have expressed has been touching. I hope that for some, my musings have helped put things in perspective, and maybe, somewhere, some time, I will find that my words helped someone to make their life their own again. To perhaps look a little deeper at Scn, to question, to use their mind, to perhaps value their children and family a little bit more, and reflect on my experiences and realize that the time has come to use the stark light of reason to make decisions.

    If anything, I hoped I've shown that Hubbard, and the experiences of those around him, can not be summarily explained. Now, as I reflect, I pity him, what he must have internalized at the end, as his body wilted away....

    And a little more from Cowboy.

    Regarding the ages of the Commodore's Messengers:

    Most went straight to the CMO, slightly over half I'd say, starting at 12 or so for many. A few held other posts and would enter a little bit later, after some non-CMO experience. Very, very, very few got in in their twenties. Mostly not where the old man was.

    _______And some more, beginning with 'A new Messenger'_______​

    A new messenger waited outside the door to the room that held his Majesty King Red. He was visibly shaking, nervous as all get out about meeting, and working with the old man. He was stuttering, going on about how awesome it must be being in the shadow of Source on a daily basis. He flinched when the old man's booming scream pierced through the doorway and another messenger, white-faced, came rushing out of the office with an armful of materials, the old man's voice screaming after her.

    The new guy blanched. "Come on, he can't be alone," I whispered to him. The guy nodded, but I had to prod him to get him to follow me into the room.

    I introduced him. The old man gave a grunt and pointed down at the pile of submissions which lay on the ground, where the messenger who'd been with him a moment ago until being dispatched on some urgent errand, had left them.

    I picked up the first, summarized what the submission was about. "Nooooh," the old man said, and reached for a cigarette.

    New Guy fumbled with the lighter and dropped it.

    New Guy knew something about the submission. He tried to explain the issue. "NOOOOOH," the old man said again. "You let them submit this crap?" he asked New Guy.

    New Guy just sat there, with his deer in the headlights look, and, unfortunately for him, nodded his head.

    "What the hell were you thinking?" the old man asked.

    New Guy couldn't figure out what to say.

    "Well, speak up man!"

    New guy remained immobile as the old man turned beet red and started yelling. "Get the hell out of here. Get off watch. You're no god-damned help," he told New Guy.

    I don't remember if he ever was allowed on watch again. Poor New Guy was slapped in the face with reality, rather than fantasy. He was crushed. He was demoted out of the messenger org, and never got the chance to make it to the top again. Hubbard criticized the hell out of him, saying his confront was out.

    It wasn't always easy to be yelled at by a God...

    _______But there were happy moments too for the Commodore_________​

    Mike Douglas, Kima's husband, he's dead now, he'd work special projects for the old man or Kima. You should have seen the old man's eyes light up when Mike showed up with a handful of diamonds which Hubbard had directed him to purchase. Boy, Hubbard was almost as excited as when he saw the bag so filled with Krugerands he could hardly lift it. Nothing like good old material goods to make a man salivate... get those old spiritual juices flowing...
    Free Will and PirateAndBum like this.
  14. Karakorum

    Karakorum supressively reasonable

    Thank you very much. It is great that you clarified all of that for us.

    There's so much disinfo floating around now, I don't even think its OSA. I think ex-scn people are spreading more of that then they are.
  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Disinfo is coming from OSA and from Independent Scientologists. For example, both spread the falsehood that Disconnection and Fair Game were discontinued in 1968.

    In this latest case, the Advanced Org of the Great Plains is spreading the disinformation. First that ESMB is being run by the C of S, and then there's this most recent odd claim.


    "I have high hopes of smashing my name into history...
    It's a pretty big job. In a hundred years Roosevelt will have been forgotten - which gives some idea of the magnitude of my attempt."
    L. Ron Hubbard, from the August 1938 'Skipper' letter to first wife, Polly, re. his unpublished manuscript ' Excalibur'.
  16. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    I've known Sarita since the early '80s. She's rock-solid.
    No One likes this.
  17. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Janis, the HCO Exec Sec for the Advanced Organization of the Great Plains is Mary Blackford, and it's written on her resume that she was the editor for both your books, here:

    It's no secret, either, that Dan Koon considers himself an Independent Scientologist. He doesn't seem to like at all when anyone brings up the ugly things that happened under L Ron Hubbard under his personal direction. Dan is hardly objective on the subject and likes to have Scientology itself viewed in a positive way. :puke2:
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  18. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    And just for further clarification for lurkers, the "Great Plains" Advanced Org is an independent group not affiliated with David Miscavige's Church of Scientology.
  19. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Plus the words "Advanced Org" might conjure up images of a 100+ person org with lots of course rooms, auditing rooms, and well-staffed divisions doing familiar things. In this case, until very recently it was pretty much a one-man-and-his-dog operation that also delivered what it called OT Levels, NOTs etc.

  20. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!


    I didn't say Janis was in the freezone.

    If memory serves, actually it has been said by Janis in an aftermath episode...Lea was schocked.

    The sociopath humanitarian tried to get orpheans from the social services so he wouldn't have to bother about parents to care about them...( please let me explain you here: it would have made it so easy to abuse them without anyone being concerned about them......Uncle Ron was not famous for his great concern about small kids needs and for ensuring them the best living conditions , but actually was and is known for his abusive and cruel behavior toward them.

    Could Janis confirms if my memory serves well about her speaking regarding Ron's attempt To "get" orpheans please ???

    Thank you!
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019