CoS Expels 18 South African Opinion Leader Scientologists

[Type4_PTS]

Lol, I'm still on it even after I told Steve to consider me Independent of scientology rather than an Independent scientologist.

You're not allowed off the list until you provide a replacement.

 

[BardoThodol]

And, by the way, this is an actual solution that would work for fixing Scientology.

Cut the auditing prices by 80%: Having audited in orgs, missions et al, it is easy to see that instead of charging $500-$1000 per hour, it would be easily viable to charge $50-$100 instead. Even at $50 per hour, with the auditor getting $40 and the C/S and overhead getting $10, it would work fine. If staff members are willing to work for $10 per week, I think they would be overjoyed to make $40 per hour. And how much does it really take to rent a small auditing space with a reception area and a couple other little rooms for admin or tech support (C/S etc.)?

Cut out all donation regging: Nobody needs more books, buildings or lapel status pins. Let people enjoy their own money and give some it for the auditing/training if they want it.

Cut the shit: If Scientology stopped lying and defrauding, they wouldn't need lawyers, OSA, expensive Fair Game Ops, library donations, IAS donations, SuperPower donations, Ideal Org donations, declares, disconnections, et al. All they would need to do is say something as simple as: "Hey we have a methodology (auditing) that we think can really help you. We hope that as it evolves it might even lead to higher spiritual states like what Ron talks about with Clear and OT, even though nobody has reached that yet. But, we think that you can feel happier and do better in your life if you do some Scientology. Hey, if you don't think you got what you paid for, we would be happy to refund your money within 90 days with no questions asked.

That would all take 3 hours to issue. Then, after lunch I would have all the buildings sold with the cash put into a "RESERVE" trust account that would guarantee refunds to any future dissatisfied customers. Auditors who had too many refunds would have to stop auditing until they got retrained and repaid the refunds to the trust account with interest.

Then I'd take a break at 3:00 pm to get some coffee, after which I would disband OSA, IAS, SuperPower, Library Donations, Ideal Orgs and every other form of donations.

Before dinner, I would have press release issued which acknowledges and apologizes to all of the people since 1950 who suffered any way by their association with Scientology. And the subject would be given a new name which is 'based on the valuable working parts of a life-betterment system developed by Hubbard and others. And I would name those people who developed study tech, etc. The press release would explain how the techniques had been hijacked in the 1950s by a cult called the Church of Scientology. The press release would then describe a new foundation (funded from the sale of the cult's real estate) that would give grants and support any human betterment systems that could prove themselves to work; and offer the ones so discovered free on the internet.

After dinner, I would hire someone like Gerry Armstrong to write the true history of the Church of Scientology and turn over to him all of the millions of secret documents, doctrines and criminal OPs that Hubbard and the cult ever engaged in since 1950.

And before going to sleep i would write the copy for a big NEON RED DISCLAIMER STICKER to be put on every Hubbard book or meter which was in inventory that read: The theoretical states and abilities of a Clear or Operating Thetan are purely hypothetical and any claim made by Hubbard to the contrary should be ignored. Notwithstanding the fact that no such states have been shown to exist, the publisher sincerely believes that there are yet some benefits to knowing and applying the techniques contained herein, and it is our hope that you will realize personal wins or be helped to some valuable degree in your own life.

Well, that would be a fairly productive first day, so then I'd go home and treat myself to some ice cream and tiramisu.

Ahhhh, HH, I didn't know you cared.

 

[BardoThodol]

Lol, I'm still on it even after I told Steve to consider me Independent of scientology rather than an Independent scientologist.

The Who's Out List was my idea to let still-ins know about who (in their area) had left the CofS but the awesome BIG LIST of scientologists who have spoken out against the CofS made the whole thing moot, IMO.

In science there are ink (unknowns) and ink-unk (unknown unknowns).

Maybe we should start an indie-indie 500 and see which fills up first. A list of those who used to be trapped in Scientology and want nothing to do with it any more.

ps: independent of the BIG LIST. After all, if we learned one thing in Scientology, you can't have too many lists.

 

[BardoThodol]

You're not allowed off the list until you provide a replacement.

But, the replacement must have an LFBD, and indicate to an F/N.

 

[ThetanExterior]

I promised earlier on this thread I'd explain fully why I think this mass Declare is just more Standard $cientology but it turned into a word-fest.

So I blogged it instead

http://www.forum.exscn.net/entry.php?639-South-Africa-explained

tl:dr at your convenience

If DM really is a True Believer in Hubbard's tech, which he may be, I don't understand what makes him think he's running the CofS successfully.

Surely he must be using Management By Statistics but what stats is he looking at that convinces him he's doing the right things?

It can't be membership of the CofS because that is obviously tanking and would appear to be approaching zero in the next few years.

It can't be the number of Clears and OTs made because that too must be shrinking dramatically.

He may be generating a lot of money but surely a huge proportion of this must be spent on legal fees, fines, building taxes and maintenance etc, so the actual profit figures can't be great can they?

So what stat is he looking at to make him think he's doing the right actions? Anyone any ideas?

Personally, I just can't see how he can believe in the tech and do what he does but I could be wrong. Maybe he's just an idiot.

 

[scooter]

If DM really is a True Believer in Hubbard's tech, which he may be, I don't understand what makes him think he's running the CofS successfully.

Surely he must be using Management By Statistics but what stats is he looking at that convinces him he's doing the right things?

It can't be membership of the CofS because that is obviously tanking and would appear to be approaching zero in the next few years.

It can't be the number of Clears and OTs made because that too must be shrinking dramatically.

He may be generating a lot of money but surely a huge proportion of this must be spent on legal fees, fines, building taxes and maintenance etc, so the actual profit figures can't be great can they?

So what stat is he looking at to make him think he's doing the right actions? Anyone any ideas?

Personally, I just can't see how he can believe in the tech and do what he does but I could be wrong. Maybe he's just an idiot.

I couldn't agree with you more - what stats is He operating of? What has He assigned as a statistic to Himself?:confused2:

I have a few ideas that I could toss out there - like He's decided he's Int Landlord HFA (it is a post in Dept 21 if I remember correctly and DM seems to like seeing Himself as "Source") and given Hisself the "Square Paces" as a cumulative stat - that's one He can keep going up IF the buildings keep getting bought and/or renovated.

Certainly "number of people reached by $cientology" is another possibility. "Number of units of Standard Tech purchased" is another.

Like I said, it's maybe after-the-fact that we can put together what delusion DM's acting out in "staying upstat" as I believe that He believes that genuinely gives Him "Ethics Protection" and saves Him from "going effect" to the SPs.

It's something I was going to think more on and maybe blog when I had enough time and info to make a few reasonable assumptions about it.

Think about it - what does the Drunken Maggot think is His Hat in Life?

I'd love to ask Him that question face-to-face.

 

[RogerB]

The thing about the idiotic cult is that it thinks it is producing "up stats" when it is eating its own seed corn . . . . feels great to get a full belly while you're doing that . . . then the dunces wonder why come next season they have no seed to sow (and they go find a wrong why/what/who to head-pike!) and worse when there's no crop to harvest nor corn to eat the starving believers are doing all-nighters trying to solve the wrong problem to get the "stats up" on a scene that had been earlier destroyed by cannibalism.

The cult's basic modus operandi is that it cannot produce prosperity for others: it can only TAKE from others. It gives nothing and takes all because it thinks that "will clear the planet."

It cannot even foster the prosperity of its lower orgs but instead cannibalizes them.

R

 

[TG1]

Scooter,

That's a great blog post you've made.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/entry.php?639-South-Africa-explained&bt=805

I recommend others read it as well. It offers a long, long view of Miscavige's thinking and actions since the early 1980s.

Excellent stuff!



TG1

 

[Idle Morgue]

You're not allowed off the list until you provide a replacement.

You are hysterical!! RIMSHOT!! I love the witty, clever ways us SP's use the "tek"!!

 

[Idle Morgue]

The thing about the idiotic cult is that it thinks it is producing "up stats" when it is eating its own seed corn . . . . feels great to get a full belly while you're doing that . . . then the dunces wonder why come next season they have no seed to sow (and they go find a wrong why/what/who to head-pike!) and worse when there's no crop to harvest nor corn to eat the starving believers are doing all-nighters trying to solve the wrong problem to get the "stats up" on a scene that had been earlier destroyed by cannibalism.

The cult's basic modus operandi is that it cannot produce prosperity for others: it can only TAKE from others. It gives nothing and takes all because it thinks that "will clear the planet."

It cannot even foster the prosperity of its lower orgs but instead cannibalizes them.

R

Roger - you are so SPOT ON - $ciendollartry $ells "$acrifice" - that is the $tate of Mind of every $ciendollarist!!

Scientology slowly indoctrinates one into thinking "they need to give all of the money to the CULT and HAVE NOTHING" - I noticed this with myself. I felt guilty living in a Million Dollar home - loaded with $$$ and lots of MEST. Thank GOD I did not give them all of my money or give up my MEST!

I LOVE MEST!!

 

[RogerB]

Roger - you are so SPOT ON - $ciendollartry $ells "$acrifice" - that is the $tate of Mind of every $ciendollarist!!

Scientology slowly indoctrinates one into thinking "they need to give all of the money to the CULT and HAVE NOTHING" - I noticed this with myself. I felt guilty living in a Million Dollar home - loaded with $$$ and lots of MEST. Thank GOD I did not give them all of my money or give up my MEST!

I LOVE MEST!!

MEST is good . . . umm, where would we be without it?

R

 

[Bea Kiddo]

I promised earlier on this thread I'd explain fully why I think this mass Declare is just more Standard $cientology but it turned into a word-fest.

So I blogged it instead

http://www.forum.exscn.net/entry.php?639-South-Africa-explained

tl:dr at your convenience

Thank you Scooter for your input on this.

You this same thing happened in the States too? Around the same time. Mass clean-up exodus of the mission staff. The famous mission holders conference, link here:

http://www.xenu.net/archive/audit/missions.html


-------

I am sure many others have stories about this, but there have been several times that the whole church has almost folded and survived. The two that I know of are 1985/86 with the Portland and LA cases that they lost, the other was 1991 with the Times article.

I am pretty sure there were more prior to that.

But from 91 to 2004 I think was "unprecedented expansion" as they put it. But as you know, Scientologists, and especially Sea Org members, are not privy to a lot of information internally or externally so there could have been some times in there that I don't know about (I am sure the McPherson case would be one of those times).

The irritating thing is that they keep getting away with this stuff.... it teeters and looks like it's going to fall into oblivion and then it bounces back.

-----

Do you think when it comes down to it they all may end up in that bunker up in the San Bernandino Hills?

(And why the hell does my mom survive through all of this? Can't they declare her for Chrissakes! She seems to steer clear of major ethics, unlike the rest of us! Every time someone knocks on our door I quietly hope it is her, because she is and always will be welcome at our house...)

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

I concur Rog

And here is a NOV 1 2013 peek at an IDEAL ORG.

ANYone wanting to know what the stats and ongoings of an Ideal Org should read this. Simply a fabulous snap shot.

http://backincomm.wordpress.com/2013/11/01/africas-flagship-ideal-org-fail-joburg/#more-62

A little taste.....

"""
......“on staff” so God knows what their figures would look like in comparison to what has been given you here. I have counted the actual BODIES ON POST IN PT. To give you an idea of the dismal state of Joburg staff, there was a massive recruit drive in mid 2011 when Joburg got up to about 65 staff (not including the SO contingent which numbers 6). Since then the staff compliment has dwindled down to approx 35 staff, a loss of about 30 staff in just over a year.

When Joburg Day was declared “SH Size” in March 2005 there were 115+ staff, thanks to a huge push by both the Joburg Org and its public who joined forces in bringing this about with NO help from Int Management. Unfortunately this camaraderie between org and public was transient due to the over-regging and incessant demands of its public with very little tech delivery in exchange. """

The thing about the idiotic cult is that it thinks it is producing "up stats" when it is eating its own seed corn . . . . feels great to get a full belly while you're doing that . . . then the dunces wonder why come next season they have no seed to sow (and they go find a wrong why/what/who to head-pike!) and worse when there's no crop to harvest nor corn to eat the starving believers are doing all-nighters trying to solve the wrong problem to get the "stats up" on a scene that had been earlier destroyed by cannibalism.

The cult's basic modus operandi is that it cannot produce prosperity for others: it can only TAKE from others. It gives nothing and takes all because it thinks that "will clear the planet."

It cannot even foster the prosperity of its lower orgs but instead cannibalizes them.

R

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

Here is Mike Rinders clue

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/miscavige-the-latam-strategy-and-opinion-leaders/

"
......Primarily the successful action of the “Latam Strategy” was to arrive in full SO Uniform with guns blazing, shoot a few people with verbal declares (SO Missions have unlimited ethics authority), scare the hell out of everyone else and then stat push like there was no tomorrow. Eventually the fad died out as it was NOT sustainable and after a while Missions were no longer able to push stats any longer (for a time, Guillaume and Cathy ran every CLO through a “Latam Strategy” SO Mission on a daily telex with daily stats from “Int Management”).
Nearly 30 years later, Miscavige is bringing the “Latam Strategy” out of mothballs it seems.
Pretty clearly, He IS losing control of Scientology. Too many “disaffecteds” in too many places. He has to act..... ""

Let me think where was that story of how Saint Hill? Well, in GReat Britain at least, got the same kind deal 1990's ?

And of course the 80-82 Finance Police in the USA.

Going earlier similar ...don't we find it in starting from the Sea Org in the late 1960s with the first SO missions.

And earlier than that... in the 1950s...as certainly alluded to in 'the compleat Aberee' publications.

And earlier than that.. in Los Felix area of Los Angeles with Jack Parsons

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bb/babalon004.htm


And earlier with ron and his first wife and second wife. I understand that was not too peaceful either.

Maybe this is the reason behind it all.

Fire !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkKRU1ajKFA



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUIQgEVDM4

If DM really is a True Believer in Hubbard's tech, which he may be, I don't understand what makes him think he's running the CofS successfully.

Surely he must be using Management By Statistics but what stats is he looking at that convinces him he's doing the right things?

It can't be membership of the CofS because that is obviously tanking and would appear to be approaching zero in the next few years.

It can't be the number of Clears and OTs made because that too must be shrinking dramatically.

He may be generating a lot of money but surely a huge proportion of this must be spent on legal fees, fines, building taxes and maintenance etc, so the actual profit figures can't be great can they?

So what stat is he looking at to make him think he's doing the right actions? Anyone any ideas?

Personally, I just can't see how he can believe in the tech and do what he does but I could be wrong. Maybe he's just an idiot.

 

[TG1]

Rinder's blog post from today (a portion of which dchoiceisalwaysrs excerpted above) is one of his longer blogs, but it's fascinating and worth the read. It probably deserves a thread of its own, but here's the link:

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/miscavige-the-latam-strategy-and-opinion-leaders/#comment-22814

 

[TG1]

Out of rank curiosity, does anyone know who's the owner of the Back in Comm blog?

http://backincomm.wordpress.com/

Surely, it's one (or more) of the 18 expelled South Africans.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

The first person I knew who had ECT was onlines at AOLA. I asked her about it.

She said it was the best thing that ever happened to her, how she had fought depression for years and for the first time, she felt alive again.

Her answer really shocked me - especially after all L Ron Hubbard had to say about it.

I've heard 3-4 personal stories since then of those who had ECT for depression.

And CB, I work with depressed people every single day.

ECT for depression is (these days) a last ditch alternative for someone to be able to live again. I have never yet heard a personal situation where a person received it without personally insisting on it. There are dox that these sort of things have happened, though, and that's a shame when/if they do. I don't question them, but I think they are exceedingly rare.

Very sorry for the loss of your father.

Depression is no way to live. It's horrible to watch a person going through that agony day after day.

in my father's case it was political and it was my stepmother who signed the papers to authorize it.

i've also written up a case in austin texas of a boy whose father had him electrozapped

i dunno...

if someone says the treatment was effective who am i to speak against it?

thank you for your condolences, i loved my father dearly and he really was quite a guy though my relationship wit both parents was mostly pretty bad. my father and i wound up pretty good at the end at least

there is LOADS of political ECT however...

 

[Commander Birdsong]

And, by the way, this is an actual solution that would work for fixing Scientology.

Cut the auditing prices by 80%: Having audited in orgs, missions et al, it is easy to see that instead of charging $500-$1000 per hour, it would be easily viable to charge $50-$100 instead. Even at $50 per hour, with the auditor getting $40 and the C/S and overhead getting $10, it would work fine. If staff members are willing to work for $10 per week, I think they would be overjoyed to make $40 per hour. And how much does it really take to rent a small auditing space with a reception area and a couple other little rooms for admin or tech support (C/S etc.)?

Cut out all donation regging: Nobody needs more books, buildings or lapel status pins. Let people enjoy their own money and give some it for the auditing/training if they want it.

Cut the shit: If Scientology stopped lying and defrauding, they wouldn't need lawyers, OSA, expensive Fair Game Ops, library donations, IAS donations, SuperPower donations, Ideal Org donations, declares, disconnections, et al. All they would need to do is say something as simple as: "Hey we have a methodology (auditing) that we think can really help you. We hope that as it evolves it might even lead to higher spiritual states like what Ron talks about with Clear and OT, even though nobody has reached that yet. But, we think that you can feel happier and do better in your life if you do some Scientology. Hey, if you don't think you got what you paid for, we would be happy to refund your money within 90 days with no questions asked.

That would all take 3 hours to issue. Then, after lunch I would have all the buildings sold with the cash put into a "RESERVE" trust account that would guarantee refunds to any future dissatisfied customers. Auditors who had too many refunds would have to stop auditing until they got retrained and repaid the refunds to the trust account with interest.

Then I'd take a break at 3:00 pm to get some coffee, after which I would disband OSA, IAS, SuperPower, Library Donations, Ideal Orgs and every other form of donations.

Before dinner, I would have press release issued which acknowledges and apologizes to all of the people since 1950 who suffered any way by their association with Scientology. And the subject would be given a new name which is 'based on the valuable working parts of a life-betterment system developed by Hubbard and others. And I would name those people who developed study tech, etc. The press release would explain how the techniques had been hijacked in the 1950s by a cult called the Church of Scientology. The press release would then describe a new foundation (funded from the sale of the cult's real estate) that would give grants and support any human betterment systems that could prove themselves to work; and offer the ones so discovered free on the internet.

After dinner, I would hire someone like Gerry Armstrong to write the true history of the Church of Scientology and turn over to him all of the millions of secret documents, doctrines and criminal OPs that Hubbard and the cult ever engaged in since 1950.

And before going to sleep i would write the copy for a big NEON RED DISCLAIMER STICKER to be put on every Hubbard book or meter which was in inventory that read: The theoretical states and abilities of a Clear or Operating Thetan are purely hypothetical and any claim made by Hubbard to the contrary should be ignored. Notwithstanding the fact that no such states have been shown to exist, the publisher sincerely believes that there are yet some benefits to knowing and applying the techniques contained herein, and it is our hope that you will realize personal wins or be helped to some valuable degree in your own life.

Well, that would be a fairly productive first day, so then I'd go home and treat myself to some ice cream and tiramisu.

yeah HH...

something like this is needed

many people have run simple operations along these lines but gotten stomped by the bosses

 

[TG1]

Me mum had ECT in the 1950s.

Wasn't that radical back then.

TG1

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Me mum had ECT in the 1950s.

Wasn't that radical back then.

TG1

and she's still here tiggy

94 now

this don't make ECT right though. i twice saw what it did to my father