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Cults by Margaret Singer

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
This is another good one.

[video=youtube;r4HqNS_hAWE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4HqNS_hAWE[/video]

Alot of people don't know that Margaret was a defense witness for kidnap victim Patty Hearst, but because the legal system didn't accept "brainwashing" or "mind control" as a legitimate criminal defense, the judge refused to allow the jury to hear Margaret.

"Singer interviewed Hearst extensively after her capture in 1975. Kidnapped by the revolutionary Symbionese Liberation Army in 1974, Hearst eventually joined her captors and participated in an armed bank robbery.

Enlisted to determine whether Hearst had been brainwashed into delivering the group's revolutionary ideology, Singer testified in a hearing outside the jury's presence that she had studied Hearst's speech patterns -- along with those of SLA members -- and concluded that on most of the seven tape recordings issued by the SLA, Hearst was reading statements written by her captors.

But the judge, though expressing admiration for her work, agreed with the prosecutor's arguments that Singer's conclusion should be kept from the jury because the study was "in a field that has never before been accepted as a subject upon which expert testimony can be given." The trial, which resulted in Hearst's conviction, greatly boosted Singer's stature as an expert in brainwashing."

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/nov/28/local/me-singer28

Jolly West also served as an expert witness for Hearst. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Jolyon_West
 

Knows

Gold Meritorious Patron
Does she use the "S" word or is it safe to share with Mr/s B in our discussion group?

Blanky - maybe tell spouse that your friend has a cousin in the Mormon Church and they think it is a cult - they are asking a favor of you (and you are asking spouse) to listen to this video to see if you think it was information that may be effective in getting cousin to maybe wake up a little.
 

Lermanet_com

Gold Meritorious Patron
Spending 20 min on the telephone with Margaret was better than anything I'd experienced previously.

I have page on her HERE

Excerpt:

"She told me that she went to a big law firm in a high rise, and rose up in the elevator alone with Eugene Ingram. She said that she asked Eugene how much does Scientology pay you? and he replied $600,000 a year. (More on Eugene here: http://www.lermanet2.com/scientologynews/latimes/ingram012781.htm )

When she got into the conference room, there was the Unindicted co-conspirator in US vs Mary Sue Hubbard criminal case there..

Lawyer Kendrick Moxon, with Eugene Ingram ( the muscle ) and some other guy Im sorry i forgot the name .

Moxon started the deposition, Margaret Singer had turned her cushy swivel chair around and had been gazing out the glass walls of the conference room at the lovely view from the upper story window of the high rise office building that the big shot law firm was in, that the scientologists had hired.

Moxon said something like, "Ms. Singer, you need to turn around and look me in the eye when Im asking you a question"

Margaret Singer replied without hesitation or even turning around to glance at Moxon: "Mr. Moxon, please show me where, in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, it states that I have to be looking AT anything, while you are asking me questions"

She continued to gaze out at the lovely view.

One of the PI's started making a little noise, as he tried unsuccessfully to supress laughing out loud (LOL) AT Kendrick Moxon...

The deposition was concluded shortly thereafter.... "
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I remember Margaret telling me about that. I couldn't stop laughing.

Her depo was with Rick Moxon & Andrew Wilson at his old location in the Russ Building, 235 Montgomery St, San Francisco, CA 94104.
 

Veda

Sponsor
From the corporate Scientology operated web site, 'Scientology Myths':

"Scientologists find it very offensive when people call Scientology a cult. The word 'cult' is now the most hateful thing you can call a religion. It's used as a slur. It's used by bigots. Not just against Scientology, but against many new minority religions. These are the actions of 'hate'."

http://www.scientologymyths.info/cult-or-religion/


____________​



'The Scientology Wars', part 1 and part 2, by Jolly West, from 1992:


[video=youtube;7PUfSlYvKLA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PUfSlYvKLA[/video]


[video=youtube;Z8scMW9H1F0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8scMW9H1F0[/video]
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Blanky - maybe tell spouse that your friend has a cousin in the Mormon Church and they think it is a cult - they are asking a favor of you (and you are asking spouse) to listen to this video to see if you think it was information that may be effective in getting cousin to maybe wake up a little.

I have no problem saying I want to watch a video together with info about cults. With my christian cult background it's an easy sell. It's just if the video mentions scientology it's not one I want to share yet. We're not to that place and I don't want to undo the good work I'm doing by triggering the defense implant. So as long as it doesn't reference hubbard or scientology we're all good.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I have no problem saying I want to watch a video together with info about cults. With my christian cult background it's an easy sell. It's just if the video mentions scientology it's not one I want to share yet. We're not to that place and I don't want to undo the good work I'm doing by triggering the defense implant. So as long as it doesn't reference hubbard or scientology we're all good.

I began watching it last night and will let you know something after I have a chance to watch the rest. But so far, no mention of Scientology.

It does say this at the beginning of the video as well:

cult_zps929815b3.png
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
I have no problem saying I want to watch a video together with info about cults. With my christian cult background it's an easy sell. It's just if the video mentions scientology it's not one I want to share yet. We're not to that place and I don't want to undo the good work I'm doing by triggering the defense implant. So as long as it doesn't reference hubbard or scientology we're all good.


I finished watching the video tonight and there's no mention of ANY cults or cult leaders by name, with the exception of Jim Jones mentioned shortly after the halfway mark of the video.

At the 40:50 mark of the video Dr. Singer mentioned that most all cults make use of confessions of some type and some record all this information in folders. This instantly brought the CoS into my mind when she spoke of this, but again, didn't mention any names.

She touched upon many things in this video which I may post on at another time, but heading off to sleep now.

Also I see a couple more videos by Dr. Singer which I've not watched yet but will post them here in case anyone interested:

[video=youtube;g9rj4R4QhQg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rj4R4QhQg[/video]

[video=youtube;iER6qjOvH4Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iER6qjOvH4Q[/video]
 

Smurf

Gold Meritorious SP
I finished watching the video tonight and there's no mention of ANY cults or cult leaders by name, with the exception of Jim Jones mentioned shortly after the halfway mark of the video.

At the 40:50 mark of the video Dr. Singer mentioned that most all cults make use of confessions of some type and some record all this information in folders. This instantly brought the CoS into my mind when she spoke of this, but again, didn't mention any names. She touched upon many things in this video which I may post on at another time, but heading off to sleep now.

It's quite understandable. The cult & it's OSAbots were waging a vicious campaign of harassment against her & her family at the time & I recall conversations we had where she said he had to be careful with he words because of the very real potential of the cult filing frivolous lawsuits against her for defamation causing her to spend ALOT of $$$$ on attorneys & court costs.

Cynthia Kisser, the Executive Director of the (legitimate) National Cult Awareness Network unsuccessfully sued the cult for defamation & lost.

"Margaret Thaler Singer, a retired adjunct professor at the University of California at Berkeley who has studied various groups, was sued unsuccessfully by the Scientologists in 1986, she believes, because she testified against them in another court case.

"I think (Tuesday's decision) bodes very poorly for free and open discussion of religious new age (groups) and almost any organization," Singer said, "because it suggests that size and power can be mustered to squelch democratic expression of opinion."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...work-cynthia-kisser-scientology-international
 
"Her expert testimony was no longer accepted after the report of the APA taskforce on Deceptive and Indirect Methods of Persuasion and Control, of which she was chair, was rejected by the Board of Social and Ethical Responsibility for Psychology (BSERP) of the American Psychological Association. Thereafter, courts shifted to accepting the position held by the great majority of scholars studying new religious movements, moving away from the perspective of Singer and others sympathetic to her brainwashing thesis.[SUP][11][/SUP] This had significant consequences later on, since it meant that brainwashing could no longer be used a defence for the practice of deprogramming.[SUP][11][/SUP]" Cf. Margaret Singer Wikipedia

"Since the late 1980s, though a significant public belief in cult-brainwashing remains, the academic community-including scholars from psychology, sociology, and religious studies – have shared an almost unanimous consensus that the coercive persuasion/brainwashing thesis proposed by Margaret Singer and her colleagues in the 1980s is without scientific merit …. it has been difficult to locate any scholar in the English-speaking world who has been willing to attempt a defense of it, and even Singer herself has appeared to back away from her earlier position.’ (Melton, 2000)

This two brief quotes prove the excellent intelligence work of GO and OSA in infiltrating and influencing scholars who see the sociological aspect of the data they have access to and never care to investigate thoroughly and look into other aspects like legal paper trail, money flows, statements of ex members, etc. Scientology mind control methods are much better that the brain washing in Korea. It is not only done with punishment and sleep deprivation when required (RPF) but simply by slow indoctrination with your total agreement. It is then that you start believing that if some one stands against "the most ethical group in the planet" or if someone wants to quit, or if they consider them-selves a"victim" they have "withholds", "motivators", "hidden crimes", or are Sps being paid by big pharma and the evil psychs. Hubbard knew people left because of upsets, he told this to David Mayo and Bill Franks on the Apollo and said this data was confidential, he mention that it was necessary to keep people in, otherwise he wouldn't have a hold on the Sea Org. The whole Scientology bridge is a path towards total enslavement in which you give all your money, your life your energy and all your potential to a multi-billion money racket empire which was built for the benefit and power of a good story teller and totally failed US Navy Officer called L. Ron Hubbard. And the trick is so good and so powerful that you end up with that 300 feet stare and stupid smile in your face and feel you are lucky. Isn't it there any subtler form of mind control? By the way I forgot: there are no "apostates" in Scientology as there were no apostates behind the Iron Curtain. Scientology is not a fancy "new religious movement" for Travoltas and Cruises. It was a "modern science of mental health" that could not prove its claims and became a "religion" to avoid legal prosecution, taxes and to be able to abuse staff members without paying them a salary, social security, and retirement pensions.
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
"Her expert testimony was no longer accepted after the report of the APA taskforce on Deceptive and Indirect Methods of Persuasion and Control, of which she was chair, was rejected by the Board of Social and Ethical Responsibility for Psychology (BSERP) of the American Psychological Association. Thereafter, courts shifted to accepting the position held by the great majority of scholars studying new religious movements, moving away from the perspective of Singer and others sympathetic to her brainwashing thesis.[SUP][11][/SUP] This had significant consequences later on, since it meant that brainwashing could no longer be used a defence for the practice of deprogramming.[SUP][11][/SUP]" Cf. Margaret Singer Wikipedia

"Since the late 1980s, though a significant public belief in cult-brainwashing remains, the academic community-including scholars from psychology, sociology, and religious studies – have shared an almost unanimous consensus that the coercive persuasion/brainwashing thesis proposed by Margaret Singer and her colleagues in the 1980s is without scientific merit …. it has been difficult to locate any scholar in the English-speaking world who has been willing to attempt a defense of it, and even Singer herself has appeared to back away from her earlier position.’ (Melton, 2000)

This two brief quotes prove the excellent intelligence work of GO and OSA in infiltrating and influencing scholars who see the sociological aspect of the data they have access to and never care to investigate thoroughly and look into other aspects like legal paper trail, money flows, statements of ex members, etc. Scientology mind control methods are much better that the brain washing in Korea. It is not only done with punishment and sleep deprivation when required (RPF) but simply by slow indoctrination with your total agreement. It is then that you start believing that if some one stands against "the most ethical group in the planet" or if someone wants to quit, or if they consider them-selves a"victim" they have "withholds", "motivators", "hidden crimes", or are Sps being paid by big pharma and the evil psychs. Hubbard knew people left because of upsets, he told this to David Mayo and Bill Franks on the Apollo and said this data was confidential, he mention that it was necessary to keep people in, otherwise he wouldn't have a hold on the Sea Org. The whole Scientology bridge is a path towards total enslavement in which you give all your money, your life your energy and all your potential to a multi-billion money racket empire which was built for the benefit and power of a good story teller and totally failed US Navy Officer called L. Ron Hubbard. And the trick is so good and so powerful that you end up with that 300 feet stare and stupid smile in your face and feel you are lucky. Isn't it there any subtler form of mind control? By the way I forgot: there are no "apostates" in Scientology as there were no apostates behind the Iron Curtain. Scientology is not a fancy "new religious movement" for Travoltas and Cruises. It was a "modern science of mental health" that could not prove its claims and became a "religion" to avoid legal prosecution, taxes and to be able to abuse staff members without paying them a salary, social security, and retirement pensions.


^^^^^^^

Good posting!!! :thumbsup:



Edit: I cross-posted this post of yours into another thread:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...on-OSA-payroll&p=986429&viewfull=1#post986429
 
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So! Did or did not Jolly West kill an elephant with LSD as the Church GO flacks said? I heard this years ago. Mimsey

From the corporate Scientology operated web site, 'Scientology Myths':

"Scientologists find it very offensive when people call Scientology a cult. The word 'cult' is now the most hateful thing you can call a religion. It's used as a slur. It's used by bigots. Not just against Scientology, but against many new minority religions. These are the actions of 'hate'."

http://www.scientologymyths.info/cult-or-religion/


____________​



'The Scientology Wars', part 1 and part 2, by Jolly West, from 1992:


[video=youtube;7PUfSlYvKLA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PUfSlYvKLA[/video]


[video=youtube;Z8scMW9H1F0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8scMW9H1F0[/video]
 

Veda

Sponsor
-snip-

"Since the late 1980s, though a significant public belief in cult-brainwashing remains, the academic community-including scholars from psychology, sociology, and religious studies – have shared an almost unanimous consensus that the coercive persuasion/brainwashing thesis proposed by Margaret Singer and her colleagues in the 1980s is without scientific merit …. it has been difficult to locate any scholar in the English-speaking world who has been willing to attempt a defense of it, and even Singer herself has appeared to back away from her earlier position.’ (Melton, 2000)

Good ol' Gordon Melton shows up yet again!

-snip-

...the... work of GO and OSA in infiltrating and influencing scholars who see the sociological aspect of the data they have access to and never care to investigate thoroughly and look into other aspects like legal paper trail, money flows, statements from ex members, etc.

-snip-

I wonder if we'll ever know the full story of what happened with the Board of Social and Ethical Responsibility of the APA. It was certainly a big "win" for destructive cults.

The program to infiltrate and influence scholars has been ongoing for at least forty years, probably longer. Was the APA also infiltrated? Mmmm...

Scientology mind control methods are much better that the brain washing in Korea. It is not only done with punishment and sleep deprivation when required (RPF) but simply by slow indoctrination with your total agreement.

And, of course, step number one is usually deception - either unwitting deception by a dupe, or deliberate deception.

It is then that you start believing that if some one stands against "the most ethical group in the planet" or if someone wants to quit, or if they consider them-selves a"victim" they have "withholds", "motivators", "hidden crimes", or are Sps being paid by big pharma and the evil psychs. Hubbard knew people left because of upsets, he told this to David Mayo and Bill Franks on the Apollo and said this data was confidential, he mention that it was necessary to keep people in, otherwise he wouldn't have a hold on the Sea Org. The whole Scientology bridge is a path towards total enslavement in which you give all your money, your life your energy and all your potential to a multi-billion money racket empire which was built for the benefit and power of a good story teller and totally failed US Navy Officer called L. Ron Hubbard. And the trick is so good and so powerful that you end up with that 300 feet stare and stupid smile in your face and feel you are lucky. Isn't it there any subtler form of mind control?

"Trick" is a key word and concept.

By the way I forgot: there are no "apostates" in Scientology as there were no apostates behind the Iron Curtain.

A very good point.

Scientology is not a fancy "new religious movement" for Travoltas and Cruises. It was a "modern science of mental health" that could not prove its claims and became a "religion" to avoid legal prosecution, taxes and to be able to abuse staff members without paying them a salary, social security, and retirement pensions.

:goodposting:
 

Intentionally Blank

Scientology Widow
Scientology is not a fancy "new religious movement" for Travoltas and Cruises. It was a "modern science of mental health" that could not prove its claims and became a "religion" to avoid legal prosecution, taxes and to be able to abuse staff members without paying them a salary, social security, and retirement pensions.

That should be on billboards all over the globe.
 
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