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Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Gizmo, Jul 5, 2015.

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  1. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Yes, I really did. I've been sad for what feels like forever, but I am happy now and that often catches me by surprise when I realise it. Tom is always asking me, "Are you real?" Sometimes it is very surreal.
  2. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Glenda, myself and my now Colombian ex-wife did the DNA test at I found out I'm of true Spanish decent on my mother's side but my Colombian ex's test showed she was from the Moorish invasion of Spain that began over 1,000 yrs ago. She has only 3% Spanish DNA as the Muslims looked down on mixing with non-believers, then as now. But she's fluent in Spanish and I am not.
  3. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    Very cool. :) Interesting stuff. Thanks for the link, will definitely have a look at what they offer.

    Apparently the male DNA stays the same, whilst the female DNA alters. I don't understand all this yet. Lots to learn.
  4. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    That's not true. The difference between male & female DNA is the number of chromosomes. Lord, imagine if female DNA changed over a period of time. Murders of women could not be conclusively tested for DNA.

    What's interesting (ans a curse) for women, particularly those that enjoy sex, is that a woman's body absorbs the DNA of every partner they've had intercourse with & their DNA stays in the woman for life.
  5. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    I am genuinely happy for you.
    And I'm happy for Tom too.
    I hope Tom appreciates his good fortune in meeting you here.
    ESMB; it helps! :)
  6. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    I haven't done any of the DNA testing but I've spent a lot of time tracing my family back through official records and I've traced most branches back to about the 1600's.

    There was one great uncle who seemed to disappear without trace and that was bugging me. Then one day someone contacted me by email to say they'd found my details on a genealogy website and they thought we were related. It turned out that they were descended from this great uncle of mine but they knew him under a different name!

    Between us we figured-out that he'd been to jail and he must have been so ashamed that he changed his name and moved away from his home area.
  7. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    You like them breathing? Hmm. Never tried that.
  8. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    I don't know enough about this to comment much - yet to read up on DNA testing for generational reasons. I suspect we are not talking about DNA testing in the same way.

    I am a true newbie at this subject. :)

    This link has some data about the differences between the Y chromosome and Mitochondrial DNA. Mentions the mutations that happen over long periods of time.
  9. oneonewasaracecar

    oneonewasaracecar Gold Meritorious Patron

    Some sick bastard sent me this Scientology gang bang pic (no sec check involved).

  10. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    I doubt the number of chromosomes really differs in more than a freaky few species, because the whole point of sexual reproduction is mixing chromosomes in pairs. In humans, everyone has two sex chromosomes. If one of your two is a short version (the 'Y' variant instead of the full-length 'X' form), you're male.

    (Part of me sometimes wonders whether the preposterous Genesis story of Eve being made out of Adam's rib could conceivably have been somehow related to this genetic fact. Men really are all missing most of one rib, if by 'rib' one means chromosome. It's hard to see why divine revelation would bother to convey a biological detail that no-one could appreciate for thousands of years, though, when the Bible otherwise does not go out of its way to clear up ancient misconceptions about nature. Even if you believe in revelation, I think this rib/chromosome thing is probably best chalked up to coincidence.)

    The thing about male DNA lingering in females is based on one recent study in fruit flies, and in fact the idea of DNA being kept appears to have been invented by the author of the linked second-hand report. All the study showed was a correlation between offspring size and diet of previous male sex partners. The study authors' hypothesized explanation was that something in male fly seminal fluid — not necessarily DNA — was absorbed by unfertilized eggs of female flies. As far as I can tell, as a mere physicist who knows very little of fly biology, that doesn't seem so incredible; but it's probably not 'storing DNA of ex-lovers'. It's probably more like, your diet affects your offspring — and maybe sex can be a form of nutrition, for eggs, among flies.

    And anyway the actual data is just a correlation in one study. That kind of statistical data shows up and goes away, all the time. It's anything but a smoking gun. Unless a lot more data comes out to support it, file it under 'weird hypothesis', not 'amazing fact'.
  11. SPsince83

    SPsince83 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Guy's been out to sea for months. On the way to the cat house he gets mugged and they get everything but the 10 spot he has in his sock. He goes to the saloon and tells the bartender he really needs a beer and a screw but he only has 10 bucks. Bartender says you're in luck cuz we got a beer and a buck for a sawbuck special. She's kinda ugly so she doesn't like the lights on but go for it. Guy gets the beer and goes upstairs.

    He comes back to the bar all smiles. He tells the bartender he came so hard the spooge came out her ears and nose.

    The bartender hollers to the barback: "Yo, Pete, the dead one's full again."
  12. OutToe83

    OutToe83 Patron with Honors

    (Just over 1400 years ago, actually)

    Wait, what? I'm not a genealogy expert, but that doesn't sound right!

    After occupying most of Iberia for almost 8 centuries, Ferdinand and Isabella finished the re-conquest of Spain in 1492, the year Columbus sailed west (IINM, the fighting didn't actually end that year, but it was the year the Spanish took back Granada, the Moors' last stronghold in Europe--all fighting after that was mop-up). That was a little over 5 centuries ago.

    Now I won't argue that the Moors may have frowned on miscegenation, and maybe the occupied Spanish did too, but it obviously did happen before and/or after the Moorish occupation. Today, the northern Spanish are still markedly lighter-skinned than the southerners--and no, it's not because of more sun. Most southern Spanish (Andalucíans) work out of the sun and are as dark-skinned on average as their farmer neighbors. I.e., they're born that way, because of their Moorish ancestry.

    Here's what doesn't sound right to me: There were plenty of Christian Spanish left in Spain when the Moors were chased out, albeit mixed with Moorish blood/genetics. They had five centuries of intermarrying since then---As did their Spanish descendants in the New World. If a Spanish-descended person has only 3% Spanish DNA, I'd be looking for either Native American DNA for the remainder, or possibly DNA from a recent Moroccan immigrant, not from the Moorish Occupation over five centuries ago. Hell, Moorish DNA is less likely than Hebrew DNA in the remaining 97%--the first American Jews settled in Brazil before the Inquisition caught up and chased them out of Latin America.

    However--I don't know how your Ex would feel about having that pointed out to her. Use your judgment, and I recommend compassion. Some people are still thin-skinned about their purported heritage.

    EDIT: Belatedly occurred to me that Hebrew and Moorish DNA probably look an awful lot alike, if not identical. They come under the umbrella of "Semitic". If your Ex-wife's remaining 97% DNA was identified as "Semitic", I would suspect more a Jewish than a Moorish heritage.
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
  13. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    lol. You give me hope. :) The great-grandfather in question bugs the hell out of me and has bugged others before me (other researchers). He just seems to have materialised in NZ, built a life, with zero connections back to England. Like some orphan or criminal or as the result of some sort of massive family fracture - who knows. There's this whole side of my family I know nothing about on my maternal line.

    I have several clues that he just started using another name once he arrived in NZ and have even found a very small "missing persons" old newspaper article looking for him (in his possible real name). I'm going to email the folk in England that I suspect are part of my family. Just want to get a couple bits more info before I do it.

    My hunch is Henry stepped onto the ship in London known as one name and stepped off the ship onto NZ soil, using another name. This was not an uncommon thing back in those days and it was easy enough to do. I've heard of several other stories like this from people I know. Drives family researchers up the wall. :)
  14. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

  15. HEY! It's already happened! :biggrin: :happydance:
  16. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    How it works with DNA Tribes is you pay $150 and get your test kit via the mail. The you take a cotton swab (provided) and dab the inside of your cheek after not eating for a length of time that escapes me at the moment. Then you repeat with another swab and rub it good on the inside of the other cheek. Mail it back to them they will process it at their lab and provide you with the results.
  17. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Moors were mostly North African, Berber and not Semitic. The people of Portugal are mostly descendants of Moors who became Christian and then were thrown out of Spain anyway, a very strong DNA connection between Portugal and Morocco. Brazil was a Portuguese colony. The Iberian peninsular was home to light skinned Celts, Moors and Jews plus Basques within the Moorish category there was communication with the whole Islamic world so some Arab genes would be there too.
  18. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Not totally proven. More research needed.

    To test the age old theory of telegony, the researchers manipulated [males] to grow to a certain height by changing the amount of nutrients in their diet. They then mated immature females with either large or small males. Later on, the now mature females were again mated with males of various sizes. The subsequent offspring were then studied, and what researchers observed was quite remarkable.

    . . .

    Crean added that due to ethical restraints it would be difficult to conduct a similar experiment on humans.​


    However, the skin absorbs fluids placed on it. If you don't believe this, put a drop of lemon juice on an eyelid.

    So, unless one wears a full-body condom or something, both partners are likely to absorb some of the body fluids of the other during sex. As for what exactly happens with such absorbed fluids, who knows?


  19. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    Right. So there could in principle be something to this. Even if this fly-sperm theory turned out to be real, though, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that nothing like it happened in mammals, for some basic biological reason about which I know nothing. And as I said, the evidence provided by this one study is pretty slight. 'Studies have shown' is mostly unscientific nonsense; most studies don't really 'show' anything at all. It takes a lot more work than just one study to pin something down.

    The general idea that genetic material can get transferred by other channels than parent-to-child has been a warm one for a while, I believe. In fact we know it happens all the time: viruses exist, and they are just like computer viruses — because computer viruses were named after the biological ones. ('Virus' is Latin for 'poison', and it used to be a generic term for any kind of bad biological stuff that caused illness. Once the germ theory of disease was accepted, it was noted that some infectious agents seemed to be able to pass through filters whose holes were small enough to catch most other germs. Whatever those things were, they were classed as 'filtrable viruses'. The reason they're so small, and yet dangerous, turned out to be that they lack all the usual reproductive infrastructure of a living cell, and simply act as genetic parasites.)

    An even more interesting aspect of telegony, it seems to me, is non-genetic heredity. If you just throw DNA in a jar, nothing living crawls out. You need a mother to produce a child, and all the complex biological conditions of the mother's body are bound to have some consequences for the offspring — not just her DNA. While the point of life (in some sense) is to propagate DNA, basic cause-and-effect means that there is a parallel track of biological influence, beside DNA, running through all of biology in general. DNA is the core, but the husk is there, too. Identical twins have identical DNA, for example, but they don't have identical fingerprints, let alone identical brains.

    Focusing mostly on DNA is certainly not stupid at this point, since DNA clearly has an enormous influence on everything about an organism. But to some extent, focusing on DNA is like looking for your car keys under the lamp post. We know how to look at DNA much better than we know how to look at anything else. DNA is so important, and so much easier than other things to investigate, that it makes sense to put almost all of our research investment into DNA, right now. That doesn't really mean that DNA is the whole of the story.
  20. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    What's the fun in that?? I need a DNA test that shows what wealthy people, past & present, I'm related to... so I can make a claim as an heir. :biggrin: