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David Gaiman has died

Discussion in 'Controversial Scientologists' started by thetanic, Mar 8, 2009.

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  1. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging

    We and David

    Most of us regret and indeed are horrified at the energy, acts of faith, support and belief that we invested in Hubbard's twisted world; yet at the time, even during very, very bad times, we were certain that we had discovered the key to a secret universe, past lives and new Scientology led civilization. We felt brighter, stronger and more worthy than all those wogs, brighter and more capable and Hubbard loved shoreing up that belief.

    We had blinded ourselves, locked away that screaming voice of reason in a dark, dank dungeon while our craven, addictive appites were drip-fed with Hubbard's 'spiritual drugs', we loved the buzz, the fear, terror, the burn outs and the abuse. Those that stayed, those like David, were simply able to take more abuse, were able to provide themselves with higher levels of argument to keep them there or had simply invested so much that they had no choice but to defend to the death.

    I both liked and hated David, he was was both an inspiration and an object of derision, he was good and he was an evil bastard and he could have had such a positive imact on the world had he served in other fields. So much more, his brilliant mind, his wit and his breadth of knowledge could have done so much for so many... or maybe not.

    Goodbye David, if someone as smart as you could have his life hijacked by Hubbard, then I am not such an idiot after all.

    I wish Sheila, my dear former friend Clair, and Neil peace and solace.
  2. Tiger Lily

    Tiger Lily Gold Meritorious Patron

    Wow JohnAnchovie, that was a great post. If you aren't a writer, you should be.
  3. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well said!

    :clap: :clap: :clap:
  4. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    wot he said
  5. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    welll I have to disagree with you.

    people who have got out of Scientology and who think it is harming others should be respectful of someone who pushed it to the very end? Why? Just because he died?

    This man pushed programs to HURT people who he thought were opposed to Scientology. He publicly supported an organization that hurts people. He never once spoke out against it or to protest the unholy and unethical actions taken under DM - preferring instead to secure what he saw as his own personal gains.

    This is not worthy of respect. Gaiman had ample opportunity to speak and never did, instead preferring to support.

    As for Sheila and Claire - well they wont be grieving - that would be "downtone". So I do not care about them at all.

    For Neil - yes, I feel some empathy for his pain.

    As for David Gaiman, his legacy as DG PR and his work to support DM ever since -

    Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.
  6. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, I'm afraid he was still pulling out his dirty PR tricks last summer when I met him at an EG protest. Very disappointing and sad.

    He has also recently paid a big part in the dirty financial deals regarding CofS properties.

    One can criticise the actions while still loving the basic being behind the acts.

    At least he is free of those dirty games now.
  7. hartley

    hartley Patron with Honors

    He was always a Church of Scientology loyalist and nothing else really mattered, and he was I suppose the last of the 'old timers' at Saint Hill who did what he chose to do and not what the 'new timers' ordered.

    It was significant I think that in the recent Saint Hill protests while Janet Laveau was talking to her imaginary friend on her mobile and Graham Wilson was hiding he came out and confronted the protesters, the only one to do so. He wasn't afraid of SPs.

    IIRC he led the CoS team to Ukraine which almost persuaded the government to pay for saunas for children affected by radiation from the Chernobyl tragedy. Fortunately the Russians got a warning through before any significant cash was handed over - radiation is not water soluble! That was I would suppose his last significant effort. He leaves his Vitamin shop in East Grinstead, drug suppliers by appointment to the Church.
  8. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Thanks for the moral statement. :)

    Been a pantywaist dilletante for decades, and interacted with David mostly at a distance. Got pulled into the London UK comittee long time ago.
    We were ocassionally addressed by David and Jane Kember.

    I remember a rehearsal for an event at the London " Talk of The Town"
    nightclub, David calling out to Jane's reading, " Less Lucretia Borgia". :)

    I knew him best when he was at his lowest. In my very brief reign as ED London Day, I recieved David and Herbie Parkhouse, just after the dissolution of the GO as a couple sent to make amends or something. Their task to expand or something similar. As a newly returned lone FEBC who was not originally destined to be anything but a HAS I was having a rough time. My time with David and Herbie was some of the very few moments of
    good comm and relaxation I had. In the collapsed org I took up Herbies idea
    of div 6 putting out lots of comm lines. Still doing this. Then I sent the staff out for an hour or so every morning distributing leaflets.

    They were sad and resigned, and trying to make things go right. Me too really. :)

    I heard stories that David only stayed in COS because his wife would otherwise disconnect with children.

    I met him briefly many years later shortly before I left COS. We were both doing some cycle, correction of some sorts? And briefly talked of that
    time we shared and he said it was his low point or something similar.

    I found him gracious. By coincidence this time of my leaving my ARCX auditor was his, or one of his daughters. Claire? She was so sweet and spent time answering questions very honestly out of session.

    Like I and many of us he was looking for spiritual enhancement. Like
    most of us I expect he did some wrong actions. I know little about them in fact.

    Regardless he has my forgiveness.
  9. Lynn Fountain Campbell

    Lynn Fountain Campbell Silver Meritorious Patron

    He is a writer. Here's his book: [url="]The Complex[/url].

  10. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    No, not at all! In saying that though, I don't think that one should be disrespectful either, to someone and/or to his family, just after he has died.

    As I said, sometimes I think things are better left unsaid. In addition to that, I think there are certain times when it's better to err on the side of cutting slack rather than sticking the knife in.

    If I read where people were trying to stick the knife into David Gaiman while he was alive, for what he was doing or still doing, and if I didn't know that he was declared back in the early eighties, my reaction to a couple of posts (just after he died) may well have been different.

    Either way, if I was Neil right now, I wouldn't want to read that someone was wishing my father would 'rot', nor would I want to see him cursed. It was that in particular that made me feel ill.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  11. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    There is so much bad in the best of us
    and so much good in the worst of us
    that it ill behoves any of us
    To allow the good and bad to go unoticed

    It seems to me that recent post-82 scientologists and exes have little idea of the genesis of the techniques used by johnny-come-lately's like David Miscavige and Tommy Davis.

    I often see on ESMB, people who came into Scn after 82 blaming DM and TD for all of the CofS's faults.

    So I think it is entirely appropriate in someone's obituaries to explain the recently deceased's part in the creation of the techniques that are still being used against the CofS's inmates and critics.

    Personally I think this should be done respectfully and I hope I did so. But in view of the harm the CofS does, it is hardly surprising if some people use heated language.

    Dead or alive, David has to bear the responsibilty for his actions. His surviving family, if they did not speak out against his crimes, cannot expect his evil deeds to go unremarked upon his death.

    Of course he was basically decent, but he let himself be led astray into dark pathways by his guru. He never appeared to recant or see the error of his ways. This is part of the story of David's life.

    I try to err in normal life on the side of not talking "about the rest of us" but this is an ex-board and people are hurting from the CofS and the truth should be told, in my opinion.

    Of course Ron's original quoting of the poem had two agendas. One was the public PR graciousness of the poem, the other was the secret agenda to shut his slaves up!

    I will not be silenced by scientology tech, neither the overt tech nor the covert tech of which David was a major author.
  12. Lesolee (Sith Lord)

    Lesolee (Sith Lord) Patron Meritorious

    I was very sad to hear that David Gaiman had died. I first met him in London, probably 20 years ago. He was giving me some sort of dodgy case interview, wherein he was telling me about himself. He had said that he got declared when the GO was disbanded, simply because they just declared everyone in the GO. He also said that he subsequently petitioned (or something) his way out of the declare.

    I met him years later at St Hill (UK) where he was re-doing his SHSBC. He was a really great old-time auditor. Excellent ARC and 2WC. We got along great. :happydance: This was old SHSBC style. He would say things like "that was as clean as a dog's tooth" (I queried this as I had heard LRH saying "as clean as a wolf's tooth"- David said LRH used both.)

    I have never seen the "other" side of David that people seem to find evil and heartless. I imagine that if you are labelled as an SP, and are fighting someone's deeply held beliefs, you are going to see an entirely different side to their character.

    Personally I would have liked to talk to him one-on-one concerning my newly found ex- status. I am sad that I have missed that opportunity :bigcry: , and wish him all the best for his future.
  13. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    There is a photo of David Gaiman in the latest Advance mag ... he is holding a 'Captains Commend' (apparently for services rendered to the National OT committee) ... he looks (to me) somewhat bemused.

    In the same mag I notice that Sheila (Gaiman) has just completed the PDC lectures.

    Kevin (Kember) completed the Self Analysis and Science of Survival courses and David Gaiman the Scientology 8-80 book and lectures course.

    Past execs that literally ran the World wide ops studying the 'new' basics ... and (apparently) taking it all seriously ... :confused2:

    I very much doubt he would have given you the time of day (sadly) ... as an ex you would not have even registered on his radar IMHO.

    I don't believe he was evil or heartless ... just a 'good Scio' ... to the end.
  14. Not Anonymous

    Not Anonymous Patron

    I hope he is well

    I hope that David is well and has found a healthy new body.

    His wife and children must be distraught to have lost a husband and a good father.

    May they rejoice in his life and the good things that he did, which were many.

  15. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Personal friend?
  16. Pooks


    This hat write up was written by Mary Sue Hubbard, the wife of LRH, David Gaiman who was once the Deputy Guardian Public Relations for Scn World Wide, and Jane Kember, Guardian WW.

    It's a pdf file-- 13 pages on how to destroy the enemy. Read it and you will see what they are doing to anons and ex's that speak out.


    PURPOSE: To help Ron create or alter the public image of Scientology, Scientology Orgs and Scientologists so as to project an image or images desirable in preventing or combating attacks from Suppresives: to create press stories which accomplish this purpose: to expose publicly the attacking enemies of, Scientology based on information given by Intelligence: to obtain excellent press coverage for Scientology and derogatory press coverage for enemies of Scientology: to associate attacking group's activities with reprehensible past groups and to study and use words currently reprehensible to describe the enemies of Scientology and their actions: to use any and all means of communication to counter-influence officials pressurized by Suppressives into attacking Scientology: by supplying them facts and by representing the side of Scientology. "

    Download file here:

    Free File Hosting Made Simple - MediaFire
  17. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, he was a good Scio to the end. Last summer we two exes talked to him, he wasn't interested in us, just used a black-scn trick reverse process to try to cave one of us in and forwarded PR lies, denying Ron's Admissions and Armstrong's testimony. Still applying the black Scn he helped to develop per the above pdf document to defeat "enemies". Poor David! :bigcry:

    AOSHUKR6EW Patron with Honors

    was he the guy with the walking stick at SHUK?
  19. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Google him. There are pix online.

  20. Not Anonymous

    Not Anonymous Patron


    A long time ago... Hope his family are OK. NA