ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

David Mayo, 1940-2017: Scientology’s top technical wizard and target of ‘Fair Game’

Discussion in 'Tony Ortega' started by RSS Feed, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. RSS Feed

    RSS Feed RSS Feeder Bot

    There is a new post up at the Underground Bunker

    David Mayo, 1940-2017: Scientology’s top technical wizard and target of ‘Fair Game’

    We have just learned that on October 23, former Scientology figure David Mayo died in his native New Zealand after a short illness. He was 76.

    In the early 1980s Mayo had risen to become Scientology’s Senior Case Supervisor International and founder L. Ron Hubbard’s personal auditor, and Hubbard appeared to be grooming [...]


    We have[.......]

    Continue reading...
  2. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Oh how sad ...

    RIP David.

    afaceinthecrowd and Clay Pigeon like this.
  3. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, very sad. RIP David :rose:
  4. asteroid

    asteroid Patron with Honors

    This aches my heart.

    We loved David (and Julie) as people... not just symbols of something else. A light just went out of the world.

    Happy travels on your next journey, David.
  5. Miss Ellie

    Miss Ellie Miss Ellie

    I am glad they found peace and happiness in their lives. He helped a lot of people at great cost to himself.

    As we "olders" move on to other things and to other places I hope the stories of what happened in the "dark ages" are not lost. You learn from history and try not to repeat the bad. What happened to David and so many others was wrong on so many levels.

    The "younger" group may not appreciate what it once was. It is still a terrible thing but has been so much worse. It is sad that what people go through today seams "better" than what was experience "yesterday". Both are filled with pain and darkness.

    May everyone find the road to total freedom.... and run as far away from the sciobots as fast as they can.

    afaceinthecrowd likes this.
  6. cakemaker

    cakemaker Patron Meritorious

    I know that David posted in ESMB a couple of times but the search function comes up with no results.
    Any idea where to find them?
  7. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    He was the only one who could have restored some semblance of credibility to the C of $ but one would have had to pry lil davy away from the podium by some supernatural means...
    afaceinthecrowd and cakemaker like this.
  8. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    Found his page:

    He occasionally posted but was treated rudely by some folks, as I recall. His posts were innocuous, not especially informative
  9. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    I think David made over 100 postings on just a couple threads.

    Many posts, out of necessity, had to be vague, but overall revealed his
    current mindset about what had occurred. I found a couple posts very
    illuminating and was glad I'd read them. After all, he went from the truest
    of true believers to being what I'd call agnostic about the existence of a
    soul or thetan. He said as much pretty plainly.

    Right now, search is not working properly on this message board. A lot of very
    prolific posters show "no content" when looking for their posting histories.

    Odd, since when the new software was installed, it was all working OK.
    Hopefully, it'll get fixed one day.

    I downloaded all of David's posts and have them . . . as a last resort. But let's
    see if the database search can get fixed soon. Probably the most important reason
    for ESMB's ongoing existence is the wealth of wonderful historical posts by some
    very bright and interesting folks.

    RIP David :rose:
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
    Lurker5 likes this.
  10. cakemaker

    cakemaker Patron Meritorious

    How'd you find it?
    Search isn't working for me.
  11. cakemaker

    cakemaker Patron Meritorious

    I think I have them someplace too but have been having issues with the Search function.
    One of the many backlogged projects is to make an e-book, like what was done with Alan Walter's posts, of some very knowledgeable old timers' posts.
    With all the wealth of first person tales on ESMB, it's hard to sift through and find the gold nuggets.
  12. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    I cheated. I recalled that he posted in my introduction thread so that was fairly easy to find. ;) (Sorry, I accidently replied to your next post which suddenly popped up. This was for the previous post.)
  13. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

  14. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    A few "best of" posts by David Mayo from my archives.

    Commenting begins just after David had watched the recently
    surfaced and posted Shiona Fox-Ness video [YouTube link]

    Yes, Veda. We were all naive. I was. You must have been too, if you were there, as were the all the others with happy smiles on their faces and looking so alive!​
    Yes, we were so naive. We thought we had "the tech".​
    We were naive about so much, especially me. I am still naive about many things. BUt ...​
    Was that all fake? No way. It was real. Real people, with real smiles.​
    Would I use the same techniques today? Not at all.​
    I have learned so much since then. From experience, from studying psychology --and believe it or not from studying basics of physics and maths. But by far the most I have learned has been from people. I listen to people. I empathize with people, I really like almost all of the people I have known. When I was a toddler I knew almost nothing. But I wanted to learn everything I could. I am not alone. I know so many people on this ESMB who also want to learn all they can, who want to be all they can be. You, perhaps above all, want that too.​
    Watching that [Shiona Fox-Ness] video again yesterday brought tears to my eyes. Not because I lost the AAC. Not because I was squashed. Not because I failed. No, it is because that venture showed what could be done, despite our "false data," despite our indoctrination, because we all wanted to help people.​
    And we did.​
    End of story.​
    Thank you Veda for helping me to see so much more than I had,​

    Believe me, I think it was harder for me to watch [the Shiona Fox-Ness video] than most anyone I know! Can you imagine the shame I felt knowing what I now know of the techniques then being used and who and why came up with them? The embarrassment I felt when I know I could have walked a different path had I gone on to university and become a research physicist? I read a book I had managed to borrow when I was 14 years of age by Moller, a Danish Professor of physics at Copenhagen university, on Einsteins General Theory of Relativity. Yet I abandoned that because ... I was naive and thought I could do more for mankind by joining this New Age group whose leader promised all.​
    But didn't almost everyone here? We dreamed the dream and woke with a headache. Let's move on.​

    Shiona Fox-Ness, now deceased, was a wonderful person in many ways. She was creative, she loved people, she loved life, she loved to help, in short she was one among the best people I have known. Ever.​

    Yes it was great but it was not enough. The worst of it is that we, too, carried on the promise of "higher states" that did not exist, could not be delivered, ever. To my eternal dismay, I believed in and perpetuated that falsity. How does one get over that? Never. What has been, has been. An indelible record in the annals of time.​

    I can't respond to Marty. He sure made sure of that!​

    Having experienced ill will and ill treatment from more than one religion during my life, I finally became utterly jaundiced against them. Of course there are evil belief systems but even for those belief systems that are not so negatively inclined, the harm happens when someone sets out to enforce their ideas, beliefs or opinions on other people.​
    Others have posted similarly enlightening comments on this thread, too and I thank them for their clarifications. I bow to your having "put the icing on the cake" for me,​

    I haven't been keeping up with all the threads and posts. I would like to say that I appreciate more than I can express the appreciation I feel toward all you wonderful people who have remembered me and who have wrtten kind things about me and about Julia.​
    After too many adversities one can feel, even become, downtrodden and IMHO can even become physically sick. Kindness is definately one of the great healers of both the soul and the body.​
    Thank you to all who have cared and who have cared to express their good will toward us!​
    With love, David Mayo

    [re: body thetan question]
    Yes. People sometimes find it easier not to look directly at what is [there] but instead use a via to look at or through. Unfortunately, the more one does this, the more of these "vias" there will appear to be. If you were paying for such a service you could part with a lot of $ and feel that that there is even more to handle than you started with. Does this ring a bell for anyone?​
    Before I take any questions, I would like to move this discussion over to a new thread which I will call Misconceptions.​

    Simply Emma. The person who made so much possible through the ESMB. Never lose sight of that, nor of what you have done and what you can and will do.​
    And if people are desperate to talk to their space cooties, or think that there are space cooties, that would bother me immensely. IT IS NOT WHAT I INTENDED nor what I expected. That is a misconception.​
    David M

    I acknowledge that you are right in that I worked in a cult that was destructive in some ways but I don't agree that it was only destructive. It was also constructive in some ways. While it is true that I worked in it, it is not true that I 'helped create the cult ...' But tell me how you think I may have done that? and what you think I should have done?​
    I am willing to listen to what you have to say. And I may learn from it.​

    The point is that the old organization was promising heights that could not be delivered, taking money for them and disappointing people. We (you and I and many others) were not. Huge difference.​

    Despite not having read the blog/spot etc., I question the combination of words; 'Scientology Ethics Technology'. Is that not one of the greatest misnomers since time began? Methinks so.​

    Are you asserting that I am still a true believer – distinctly got that impression. If that is what you are doing you are mistaken.​

    My opinion, often if not always religions promise something they can't deliver in order to attract, and to keep, adherents.​

    So true. My attitude when I first got out was "Tech" good, management bad.​

    (“still couldn't get it”) Trying to get something when there is nothing to get! That's the problem.​

    Karen started this thread based on the premise that RTC was Miscavige's RTC as evidenced in the title of this thread. Would it not be more profitable to look at whether it was Misc's RTC or LRH's RTC that resulted in the deplorable matters Karen mentioned such as the situation with her and her son? Or the somewhat controversial, yet very on topic, incident of The President's Wife?​

    IMHO, whether man is a "spiritual being" is definitely worth thinking about but it is definitely not wise to come to any conclusion about. And disastrous to accept any one's assertions about.​
    PS See my Sig. for what I consider to be nearer to the truth on this subject.​
    Religion is an insult to human dignity.
    With or without it you would have
    good people doing good things
    and evil people doing evil things.
    But for good people to do evil things,
    that takes religion.
    Steven Weinberg
    Nobel Laureate in physics

    The punch line: In my life long pursuit of what is it in belief systems or therapies that makes a person better or worse I have concluded that helpful (definitely non harmful) techniques and the empathy of the practitioner are paramount. I wish to emphasize, the empathy of the practitioner.​
    Goodbye and good luck,​

    Now here's something I will comment on.​
    I started windsurfing 10 years before Rin's pontifical pronouncement suggests, in about 1984. No payoff from any of the 3M's required. Just a love of nature (sailing among turtles, blue Flying Fish and sometimes a Tiger shark). This followed a recognition that exercise is an invaluable part of becoming/remaining healthy.​
    I also realized that three of the factors to a good life are: exercise, a healthy diet and reduction of stress. My wife and I practiced and promoted those with, dare I say, astounding results!​
    And a new life, not entangled in "knots" (wink, wink, say no more) began!​
    "Mr. Squirrel"​

    After I got out I took a psychology class which I enjoyed. And I've sometimes had dinner with a practicing psychiatrist. Among other things we discussed the power of empathy as a healing agent. It would be nice to spread that idea around more on ESMB.​
    Thank you for your kindness,​

    Since you asked:​
    1. No, I did not KR people, neither before I left, nor after I left. I loathed that and similar "Ethics" practices. Always did, always will.​
    2. I believe you do have a right to '...question you (Julie), Karen, David or anyone else.' Question away. And I will tell you what I think, wherever I can.​
    3. It does NOT seem to me that 'Caroline's post had the purpose of discrediting Karen.' Show me if you can (even PM me if you can't do it publicly). I have known Karen since the 1970s. I have known Caroline for a much shorter period of time and was impressed with how forthcoming and honest she was. In my opinion Caroline rates among these people I admire: Gerry, Veda, Arnie, Alanzo --and several others you wouldn't have heard of as they were before your time.​
    4. How many times have you had threats against your life? Who stood up for you then? Who would have turned you in in a flash to save their own arse?​

    Veda, I hold your posts in the highest of regard both as to their accuracy and your courage in posting them!​

    I don't agree that the human brain cannot imagine non-existence. I have. Including when my life has been threatened.​
    I agree that the human brain (usually) makes up stuff that is imaginary --when desperate to believe in a hereafter. I have done that, too.​
    Yes, this may be 'just pondering' but believing in past or future lives are both just pondering, too. My final conclusion is agnostic --I don't know but I lean (strongly) toward the belief that I have not had any past lives, nor will I have any future lives. I can now, reasonably happily, live with this for as long as do I live.​
    As far as I know, every religion (belief system) has asserted that if one behaves as they prescribe one will enjoy some form or after life but if one does not so conform one will suffer (in death? even if dead?). My opinion here is that any belief system is an attempt to control those it can latch onto.​
    My advice to myself and to anyone who thinks similarly, is to live life as best you can for yourself and for others --which I have found to make my life more enjoyable most of the time and despite adversities. As for the hereafter, if there is one, "come what may".​
    This may offend some but truth is better than fiction.​
    My best wishes,​
    David Mayo

    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  15. The_Fixer

    The_Fixer Class Clown

    Wasn't he under a legal gag order and consequently not able to say much, severely limiting his participation here?
    Enthetan likes this.
  16. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    Yes, alludes to it here:

    I can't respond to Marty. He sure made sure of that!

    Like a few people, I was a touch skeptical when David arrived
    at the message board, knowing he was severely limited by an
    existing gag order. I made phone calls to my back channel
    ex-SO contacts and confirmed his identity.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  17. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    A very poignant back and forth between HelluvaHoax and
    David Mayo in 2011 about the Shiona Fox-Ness video . . .

    HelluvaHoax says:
    Watched the video...​
    Earnest people.​
    Good intentions.​
    A question continually floated in the back of my mind while viewing it.​
    What went wrong? Or maybe, more correctly, what was wrong with this whole scene of good folks working in harmony to do good in the world?​
    Viewed from 2011, we have the eerie benefit of knowing not only what they were thinking & feeling, but what was just ahead if the film could have been fast-forwarded.​
    Giving them much credit for what they did know, what they did not know was rather staggering, to be honest.​
    They did not know that a train was coming down the track and headed directly for them in what would be a rather spectacular collision. That train was, remarkably, the same thing they were so fondly and ambitiously giving every ounce of their reasoned and unwavering support to...​
    The tech.​
    Ron's tech.​
    His tech that included willful and knowing attack, coercion, lies, fraud, terrorism, criminality and fair game.​
    They didn't see that coming.​
    A blind spot extraordinaire.​
    It was steaming down the track and zeroing in them, their precious tech, their ARC and their trusting belief that Ron and his tech were good and worked.​
    Although it is easy to joke about it, there is real pathos embedded in this time capsule.​
    Had but the vaunted tech actually worked, the world (and these fine people's lots in life) would have fared far better.​
    It felt, however, like a latter-day Woodstock where some of the glowy-eyed celebrants were, quiet uknowingly, soon to be shipped off to Vietnam to meet their own doomed immortality.​
    In my own military service to Scientology, I shared foxholes with these fine people. It is still bewildering to me, having seen the horrors of Scientology wars that we all witnessed up close, that so many of them volunteered for additional tour of duties and continue to this very day!​

    You [HH] have pin pointed here much of the essence of what we all, I in particular, did not know. In that you are right.
    I can't pass this by without stating that there was a lot more that I neither I nor anyone else involved did not know. Not related to the "tech" but related to completely external factors, that I had not a clue of back then.
    Perhaps M&M [Marty & Mike] could help here ... if they realized that I do not continue to bear rancour/rancor against what they (and others) did. I don't have their addresses but perhaps someone who does could pass that on.
    Yes it was mainly Ron, but as they ruled at Nuremborg, 'I was just following orders.' is not an extenuating excuse. Not even for US$35,000.
    Despite all that, I would be willing to let bygones be bygones.​

  18. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    It's depressing to me that I find neither searches available as a standard feature on his profile page lead to any of his posts at all.
    Does this mean that all of our posts will at some point become irretrievable and lost for all time?
    Then I wonder what we've been posting for?
    I always thought we were all part of building one heck of a database but it would seem that it all dissolves in cyberspace after a while.
    These are the links that yield nary a shred of a post:
    Find all content by David Mayo
    Find all threads by David Mayo
  19. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

  20. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    David looks so happy in this pic.
    RIP , David.
    You are gone, but not forgotten.