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Dean Wilbur Rhetoric Hubbard dianetics sicientology

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by Gib, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. Little David

    Little David Gold Meritorious Patron

    There may be photos at the same site that LRH sent to Heinlein in letters. This one of Sara holding their new daughter Alexis may be from there, "uncover" spotted the Heinlein watermark on it and wrote "Obviously a watermark from the Heinlein-archive. This leads me to the conclusion, that this picture was probably attached to one of El Cons letters.":

    This one shown in the Going Clear HBO documentary may also be from there:

    I'm still looking for a mention of Hubbard in the photo descriptions before I buy and look at any of the photos. These photos of Sara and Alexis with LRH in Bay Head NJ are evidence of LRH's second wife and their child that I'm sure Scientology would prefer to have never been found.
  2. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    there is a post card thingie Hubbard sends to Heinlein announcing the birth of Alexis and it being a dianetic birth with great success and further letters explaining on Alexis is doing great.

    But this tread isn't about that, it's about what books did Hubbard read that influenced him, for a fact, and not speculation.

    You can get the Heinlein letters and start your tread and expose that aspect, I wish you do so, for that is more of the truth. There is so much data in these letters that can be examined. You know what I mean. :thumbsup:
  3. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    In researching for the first book Hubbard mentions in his letter to Heinlein, I find it online:


    so I start reading it and the author mentions his earlier work as reference for his later book THE PSYCHOLOGY OF REVOLUTION.

    So I search for that book and find it:

    The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind by Gustave Le Bon

    So I start reading it.

    So what the hell is a "crowd"? And remember I'm reading this stuff since Hubbard read it and I'm looking for things he may have used to create a crowd, a cult......a scientologist.

    Here it is:

    What constitutes a crowd from the psychological point of view--A numerically strong agglomeration of individuals does not suffice
    to form a crowd--Special characteristics of psychological
    crowds--The turning in a fixed direction of the ideas and
    sentiments of individuals composing such a crowd, and the
    disappearance of their personality--The crowd is always dominated
    by considerations of which it is unconscious-
    -The disappearance
    of brain activity and the predominance of medullar activity--The
    lowering of the intelligence and the complete transformation of
    the sentiments--The transformed sentiments may be better or worse
    than those of the individuals of which the crowd is composed--A
    crowd is as easily heroic as criminal.

    In its ordinary sense the word "crowd" means a gathering of
    individuals of whatever nationality, profession, or sex, and
    whatever be the chances that have brought them together. From
    the psychological point of view the expression "crowd" assumes
    quite a different signification
    . Under certain given
    circumstances, and only under those circumstances, an
    agglomeration of men presents new characteristics very different
    from those of the individuals composing it. The sentiments and
    ideas of all the persons in the gathering take one and the same
    direction, and their conscious personality vanishes. A
    collective mind is formed, doubtless transitory, but presenting
    very clearly defined characteristics.
    The gathering has thus
    become what, in the absence of a better expression, I will call
    an organised crowd, or, if the term is considered preferable, a
    psychological crowd. It forms a single being, and is subjected

    "The disappearance of conscious personality and the turning of
    feelings and thoughts in a definite direction, which are the
    primary characteristics of a crowd about to become organised, do
    not always involve the simultaneous presence of a number of
    individuals on one spot. Thousands of isolated individuals may
    acquire at certain moments, and under the influence of certain
    violent emotions--such, for example, as a great national
    event--the characteristics of a psychological crowd. It will be
    sufficient in that case that a mere chance should bring them
    together for their acts to at once assume the characteristics
    peculiar to the acts of a crowd. At certain moments half a dozen
    men might constitute a psychological crowd, which may not happen
    in the case of hundreds of men gathered together by accident. On
    the other hand, an entire nation, though there may be no visible
    agglomeration, may become a crowd under the action of certain

    "All feelings and thoughts are bent in the direction determined bythe hypnotiser."


    The above are just snips from the "Introduction. The Era of Crowds".

    If there ever was a blueprint or roadmap on how to create a religion or cult, I'm afraid these two books are it. They are dangerous if a psychopath gets a hold of them, but enlightening to protect oneself from a psychological crowd.

    Want to know why Hubbard started the Sea Org with it's Navy uniforms and military mock-up? Sure the shore story is to "get ethics in on the planet", sounds very heroic, but the reason is different.

    Want to know why Letters Out = Inflow, why number of times over = certaintly? Why Hubbard said that? Sure he gave a shore story, but the reason is different.

    Much, much more is explained in these two books.

    Once you became a member of the crowd aka scientologist, what did Hubbard actually use and use to get you to become a scientologist?

    Why did Hubbard write KSW and become "source"?

    We are all looking at it from a critical thinking or rational logic POV once out, but that is not the logic Hubbard used although he said he did? There are a few other logics such as mystic logic, all explained.

    It's all in these two books.

    All men are my slaves.

    Men will grovel at my feet and not know why.
    I now know why. Tendered as a humble gift to mankind, this work is free so keep it so. LOL, a pun using hubbard's words..

    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  4. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  5. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron


    Gadfly's stuff is GREAT!:thumbsup::clap::yes:

    I've made some posts over the years re: Le Bon's works and Scn. Here's the first 2 from 4-5 years ago.

  6. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    Anybody know where Gadfly went? He's been gone about a year now.
    I know people do "EP" the message board after a bit and just slip away. :shrug:
    I'm curious and I care. :rose:
  7. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    He pops in every now and then. Less and less as time goes by. I love his stuff. :)
  8. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Some of the BEST ALL TIME stuff re: Scn (and a buncha other stuff) ever Posted on ESMB or anywhere, IMHO. :yes:
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2015
  9. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Way cool!, Face. :yes:

    I had no idea you wrote those two posts. I also decided to read the treads over the last day or so. Good stuff there. :thumbsup:

    I'll give more specifics on your two posts, from L Ron's use of Le Bon's works.

    Hey, if you want to catch a criminal, you just have to think like a criminal (Hubbard), and in Hubbards words a criminal is somebody who gets something for nothing (think Hubbard, LOL). So, if we know what Hubbard implemented by his influences of what he read and employed, why we can catch the criminal, LRH, and know why. For he said the only thing you can be upbraided for is "no results".

    no results - any clears have perfect memory, any OT's have whole track recall? Or are these imagined states, concepts?
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
  10. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    regards your first post mentioned :thumbsup: and the tread you posted at:

    From Le Bon's works that LRH implemented


    Book II Chapter 3


    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  11. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Book II Chapter 3


    Here it is, a summary given by Le Bon, then he explains further each point:

    Consider Affirmation. Those are success stories, the original Dianetics book had affirmation from Dr. Winter which helped to create the "books make booms" line Hubbard used later on, there are many affirmations Hubbard presents and w/o proof and Le Bon explains that as well.

    Consider Repetition. Number of times over = certainty. Constant TR's are done by staff members. KSW at the beginning of every course, the quantity of letters out is what matters, not the quality, there are many more.

    Consider Contagion. The two above reinforce contagion and propagate it. A perfect example is Terril Park unbeknownst to hisself.

    Consider Prestige. The whole bridge to total freedom is one of prestige, status. Hubbard creates prestige from the get go in Dianetics, a clear is homo novis, and then OT is mystical being with powers, the Sea Org members are the elite of the elite, what do I think of auditors as the top smartest people on earth, on and on, Hubbard establishes Prestige along with the Affirmation, Repetition, and Contagion to create a crowd, a following, as delineated by Le Bon.
  12. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    3. PRESTIGE. Definition of prestige and classification of its
    different kinds--Acquired prestige and personal prestige--Various
    The way in which prestige is destroyed."

    For Le Bon further explanation:

    And this is why Hubbard implemented

    no talking about case
    no verbal data
    Safeguarding technology
    no case on post
    the course supervisor doesn't explain, but points to the materials, (got an M/U?)

    Which is the reason for PTS/SP and Fair Game, and why Gerry Armstrong, Arnie Lerma, Paulette, etc where targets for they started to discuss and expose Prestige.

    And the solution in Hubbards mind is to stop the exposers by Character Assassination to keep "the crowd".
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2015
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I don't know if anybody has read the links I provided above regarding Le Bon's works. :confused2:

    I surely hope people do other than me and Face.

    Nor do I know if folks here have read the Heinlein letters between Hubbard and Robert Heinlein. I surely hope folks do.

    BUT, since the Heinlein letters between Hubbard give an insight, I thought to check out the John Campbell letters between himself and Heinlein.

    Here's the link on the file:

    It costs two bucks to get it.

    In reading that file of letters today between Campbell & Heinlein, you'll eyes will be even more opened. And I hope somebody with a better brain than me will read those letters between Campbell & Heinlein. While the Heinlein letters to Hubbard are important, these letters back and forth between Heinlein & Campbell are even more important, much more so. Just about every letter is about dianetics and more insightful. Campbell is a talking festival.

    This is a personal appeal to Veda, Gadfly, Face, HH, JustSheila, Panda, DB, Jason Beghe, Tony Ortega, Scooter, LeLand, DB, Mike Rinder, Marty Rathbun, Jesse Price, Karen #1, Jeffery Ausgtine, Headleys, Mockingbird, etc etc and everybody here to read those letters.

    Yes, Veda, in one of the letters, Campbell mentions the Commies taking over Dianetics.

    As far as Arnie is concerned, Heinlein says to Campbell: Have you read Salter: What is Hypnotism? It sheds light on the phenomenon you (Campbell) and Ron are investigating.

    Heinlein asks very pointed questions of Campbell throughout these letters all the while saying he's interested but wants more specific data.

    If you folks do not read these letters, I'm gonna have to do this and repeat it endlessly, put on the Sunglasses( or read the Heinlein letters):
  14. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Ok, found more data. I was wondering about Excalibur. What's in it, what's it about?

    I found this today.

    So I read that story by Arthur J Burks who read Excalibur. And lo and behold, Burks talks about Hubbards idea of "crowds" (lynch mobs) which totally align with Le Bons works on the psychology of crowds, ergo Hubbard did indeed read Le Bons work and stole his ideas to create a "crowd", ie religion or following. But, here's the kicker, Le Bon was trying to help by explaining how "crowds" get formed and people become fanatic, while Hubbard used his discoveries to create a "crowd", biggest example is 1965 KSW.

    I'm just trying to put some pieces together that Jon Atack and Miller and even Wright missed, even Tony O. And I understand since they did not have the data in the Heinlein letters between Heinlein and Hubbard, and more importantly between Heinlein and John Campbell. You have got to read those letters. :yes: to also get the big picture.

    I believe w/o John Campbell, since he totally fell for Hubbards trap, Dianetics in 1950 would never have seen the light of day. Campbell & Hubbard both tryed to get Heinlein on the bandwagon, but Heinlein was of the I want to see the research data, which neither Hubbard nor Campbell provided but just provided very convincing stories which Heinlein didn't fall for, although he told them he was interested. In the end, Campbell was actually the very first squirrel, LOL.
  15. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Since Hubbard read Le Bon, one has to look at this video from the viewpoint of how did Hubbard get you to join Scientology. Many here have done so, but here is a condensed version, if you will.

    Le Bon even tells in his book what breaks the spell, which has been mentioned here and elsewhere, just giving confirmation.:thumbsup:
  16. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Excellent 8 minute audio on Le Bon! Thankyou. :yes:
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  17. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Edward Bernays. I'm sure his books are in the WH press room.

    Full book Propoaganda.

  18. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Thanks for the link, Hats. Bernay too read Le Bon.

    But I don't know if Hubbard read Bernay. I do know he read Le Bon as I mentioned above

    and I'm looking and reporting my investigations of who influenced Hubbard and his usage of such influence. While there have been other studies such as Crowley, I don't think there has been any on Dean Wilbur and now Le Bon

    For instance, it has been said Ron is a pathological lier, by the Judge in the Armstrong case IIRC. Well, ok, he lied about his past and lots of things. The reason why is because
    " In making up its mind its first impulse is usually to follow the example of a trusted leader."

    Ron lied about being a nuclear engineer, etc to establish prestige as Le Bon notes, to be a trusted leader, mankinds greatest friend. I'm not saying this is right, I'm saying that's why he lied. And for another example, the good image of Ron must be maintained, same thing. It's why there are Ron's offices in the orgs, pictures of him, etc. Ron was a clever boy to hide all this in his use of rhetoric as well. He got Campbell, and the both of them could not get Heinlein. Heinlein stood his ground and wanted to see real proof.

    Well, Ron got me and thousands of others, amazing. But now I know why for sure.

  19. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Great post by Mike Rinder today entitled "Successes":

    From Mike, beautifully said IMHO:

    Hubbard incorporated Le Bons discoveries of the "crowd", what a self perpetuating hamster wheel.
  20. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    If you ever get the chance, read up on Hugh Blair: and belles lettres&f=false

    If you are a writer, a artist, a creative type of person, which I am not, I'm a nuts and bolts type of guy, get your wits around the sublime to forward good in the world as opposed to hubbard's use to entrap us, just my humble opinion. And his essay entitled "My Purpose" is a perfect example of his use of the sublime. As well as KSW.

    Very lofty ideas of the state of clear and OT, if it were only true?

    One may wish to do the exercises in and belles lettres&f=false

    to verify for themselves.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015