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death by auditing

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by MrNobody, Oct 11, 2010.

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  1. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    Read the whole blog post here:
  2. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    It's bullshit. I did a good deal of auditing, and never surrendered my mind, my perceptions, or my ability to view reality.

    Now, certainly there is a lot of brainwashing that goes on in scientology, but it's not in the auditing room, IMO. It's groupthink. Reinforced by security checks, yes, but auditing, in general, doesn't cause people to become brainwashed. It's subjugation of your will to KSW and becoming "on-source" that is brainwashing.
  3. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Its difficult to isolate specific bits and pieces and state that they are the "heart" of the brainwashing. Its the whole schemozzle. Real blame lies with the dark forces that drove LRH to pour evil into the world.
  4. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    Well, personally I think it's a lot of things combined that make the brainwashing, and Auditing is one of 'em. Groupthink and peer pressure contribute to the brainwashing too.

    Of course, that's just my opinion. :)
  5. Stat

    Stat Gold Meritorious Patron

    I agree.

    True auditing, separated from religion and its politics, is just a form of counseling, that can definitely help one. I know, because I was part of it long enough. Both as a pc and especially an auditor. When I say auditing though, I only imply rudiments, lower Bridge and its rundowns. I have no farther experience. Just Book One, Grades, Rundowns and NED. Some of the Grade's contents I thought was kind of stupid, MU's or not. Most of it is rather cool though. But what really matters, I think, is seeing a being in front of you, caring about him/her, wanting them to do well/better, listening... They probably will feel better just by realizing that you are their real friend, if you really are.
    And that you love him or her the way they are. And that's auditing.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  6. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    I can also offer German quotes which explains, that Auditing is a form of Hypnosis.

    I am having the same opinion.:yes:
  7. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I have to disagree, again. While I would agree that the training and staff experience are efforts to turn people into drones, the auditing doesn't actually do that. I would agree that after auditing sessions, people are probably more suggestible, and this is exploited to get them to sign up for more services.

    In one sense, I would agree that auditing is hypnotic, and that is that there is a heavy focus in auditor training on learning to control the attention of the person being audited. This is a textbook definition of hypnosis, and yet, it also applies to an author writing a book, a director of a movie, or ANY therapy, really. Without controlling the person's attention, none of those things "work". A movie which doesn't capture and direct your attention is a failure. A therapist who cannot gain and control your attention, IMO, is a failure of a therapist. In auditing, a person's personality is not replaced. Instead, they inspect their own personality. It might change, but not in a fashion which is predictable, or towards some plastic personality. Instead, it unearth's what was there, already, but typically repressed.

    There are, of course, exceptions to this. Objectives are easy to abuse, and can easily be highly hypnotic, where the WHOLE point is to get the person comfortable with being controlled by another person. Where the focus is on getting them in contact with present physical reality, I don't think it's hypnotic, but when the focus is on domination, which it often is, then I would agree, it's hypnotic.

    Auditing truly is a two-edged sword. It can be used to help people discover what's holding them back and release them, and then again, it can be used to dominate them. Clearly, Hubbard and his Church often use it for the express purpose of overwhelming their clients, and extracting maximum cash from them, and when that's gone, maximum labor and new recruits, while offering only as much, in terms of "wins" as the client demands to keep going.

    I think that the Church should be dismantled. I think Scientology practitioners should have to be supervised by mental health authorities in the countries that they operate. The religious cloaking that prevents this needs to be stripped away. After all, hypnotists are certainly operating in nearly every country of the world. Hypnosis gets a bad name mostly when people are attempting to abuse and dominate others.
  8. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    John McMaster

  9. Out-Ethics

    Out-Ethics Patron Meritorious

    Auditing by itself is okay and I can see benefits that one could get from it. In any type of therapy there is nothing wrong when used ethically to get a person to look at themselves and then as a result decide how they want to be. This is probably why Scientology has had success because the lower bridge tends to address this. Perhaps auditing may be a light form of hypnosis but I certainly don't see the results of that alone making a person suggestible to going up the bridge. What I do see is that Scientology as a whole is a mind-control or brainwashing entity but this came in later as Hubbard used techniques such as sec checking, SP declares, fair game, lower conditions, KSW etc etc etc because he was convincing people that he had the only game in town.

    I agree with Uniquemand that the Church should be dismantled because it is evil and they do very destructive acts towards it's own members and anyone who opposes them. It is not a Church deserving reform as they had long since gone over to the dark side. As far as FZers or Indies go I have no problem with them provided that people can come and go as they please.
  10. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I had a lot of auditing. I liked it. It covered things like how I felt about various areas of my life. Nothing wrong with that. Not saying that there aren't other methodologies out there just as good, but there was nothing evil about my auditing.

    Just sayin'.
  11. He-man

    He-man Hero extraordinary

    I think the real danger of auditing isn't the process itself, its the promise that goes with it that it will help you with whatever you have a problem with, thinking of pre-OT levels here.

    The idea that auditing can help you, put in a mentally unstable persons mind, where it doesn't help, can be real dangerous.
    Add to that the fact that scientologists are taught to distrust anyone coming from the real experts on the field.

    I don't think it's a good idea to take one thing out of the big picture of scientology and try to measure if it's good or bad. It has to be looked at as a whole.

    Is auditing evil? Who cares? Scientology is abusive. Isn't that enough?
    Does it matter if auditing has helped people? Not really if you ask me. It has played its part in destroying so many peoples life that it doesn't really matter to me.

    At the end of the day, auditing is just a tool. The important thing to look at is how people use that tool.
  12. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron


    Auditing is one gear wheel.

    The Auditing that is describe in the OP and at antidianetics is from Norbert Porthoff, he wrotes in his book "Im Labyrinth der Scientology" very good how the Scientology system works. His end of the Drama was the RPF and he blow from there.

    But Auditing is a form of Hypnosis and in CO$ hands it is a very big risk and for people that are for example psychologically disturbed could it be a big risk.

    Imo because it is a form of hypnosis it could help, persons feel good and they like it. Norbert Potthoff liked it too, I remember he wrote he felt relaxed after his "Death Auditing".
    Auditing makes "addicted" and it makes depend on CO$.

    It is a big gear and a dangerous gear in the "Scientology Trap"!
  13. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    I disagree. In my opinion, the process itself is dangerous, in that it makes people dig deeper into their own minds, than sanity permits. So in a desperate search for the requested answer, the mind comes up with all kinds of pseudo-explanations, made up from a pile of random informational snippets it has in store. Result: Stories from past lives, life on other planets, having been the REAL father of Jesus, and whatnot. All this leads to a... well... not-so-sane brain, IMO, although it (the brain) might still work reasonably well in everyday situations.


    Here's another interesting article from that blog: Defence against Manipulation
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  14. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    He's writing about his experience as a Dianetics Book 1 pc. Who is to say that the session didn't go that way? If it did, then I can certainly understand why he feels theway he does about Dianetics.

    Book 1 auditing is the most dangerous and apt to be 'squirreled' because it's dependent on the presumption that the person auditing you knows what he or she is doing. People are co-audited under minimal supervision if any and there is no c/sing. Once a person is trained, they can go out and audit whoever they want. The book tells them so.

    I knew of a woman who went psychotic on Book 1- stuck in something and unable to get out. After knowing about this, it as clear to me that it could happen to anyone.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  15. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent Silver Meritorious Patron

  16. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Auditing conditions, makes you believe, that what you seem to 'recall' in session is real.. Ie.. Past lives.. A plethora of nifty hubbardian 'mind mechanisms' like 'facximlie one', 'demon cirquits' and 'identities'.

    This could be.. whatever.. But since you likely 'believe' in auditing, Hubbard and Dianetics when you are in a 'session., you probably also 'believe' that your mind cannot be trusted.. There's all that crap in there. Engrams and Implants..

    This makes you VERY suggestible!

    So in that sense there IS hypnosis going on. Or brainwashing.. Auditing prepares you for all the other crap that was mentioned..

  17. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    I am thinking about a child that got audited. That child could recall and remember lots of "imaginary" previous lives. Later after the family left Co$, that child had big fear, because of the "previous lives".That child could go nowhere alone. Even to school. It couldn't sleep with 12 years alone in a room. It needed a therapy and it had to go to a Psychologist.

    Auditing is damaging, especially for a childs soul and mind.
  18. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    yeah, well, while that's a popular thing to say, there's no real proof of that, just as there is no proof that it generates a state called Clear.

    it comes down to anecdote, and most of the anecdotes I know of show that it's of good value to the individual, though it is exploited by the organization
  19. The Clam

    The Clam Patron with Honors

    Auditing is the carrot that leads you into the dark maze of the cult. Ethics is the tool that is used to condition you to stay. Observation and evaluation are the tools to set you free.
  20. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    carrots are good for you