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death by auditing

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by MrNobody, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    At various times, I was a Comm Course sup, HQS sup, and HSDC sup.

    According to my staff experience, you are correct. (However, TRs above TR4 were on the Comm Course.)

    I left in Spring 1976 and it was still the same at that time.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2010
  2. looker

    looker Patron Meritorious

    I did Opening Procedures by Duplication in life repair, circa 1969.

    I thought it was mind control, stupid, boring and went mind numb and got irritable for what seemed like 15 minutes. I thought I'm just not getting it, until I thought of it as a Zen Buddhist consciousness raising lesson. Like in the TV show Kung-Fu.

    Then each time I touched the book in a new unit of time noticed its temperature color or weight, it was better and better until I touched the trim on the door and was asked to notice the temp. Boing! I blew out!!!

    It was like, I touched the trim, I Noticed the cream color and smooth texture and I felt shocked (as in amazed). I zoomed backed out of my body 10 feet to feel the temperature and I couldn't. I felt the sun's warmth and light through the window 5 feet to the left of me, smelled the coffee out in the lobby, saw the green plants outside waving in the breeze, smelled the new paint in the room new carpet, and all my senses were greatly enhanced and a fizzy, tickle, giggly sensation was coming into my body.

    I thought I was exterior for 20 minutes. I just wanted to leave session and drift down the street feeling the trees and the warmth of the sunshine feeling 30 feet wide 20 feet tall. My auditor asked with a giggle how I was doing. I almost couldn't talk. I was just saying WOW and making floating gestures with my arms like wings. This was way better than pot, and I felt ultra awake. I thought this is the way a Zen Bhuddist monk must feel after hours of meditation. I liked it, I wanted it.

    Even my auditor went VVGIs with me. Because her eyes were watching my eyes when I touched the door trim when I jerked away and said Holy Shit!! , her eyes went Holy Shit too. Both of us were laughing with grins so big it hurt.

    She could hardly end session it was so fun. She would struggle to say "is there anything you want to say or ask before I end session" I would point back to the door jamb with the cans in my hands, and just laugh with tears streaming down my face, and choke out " WOW". Then she would start laughing, and I would laugh at her laughing at me. Oh god... funny, Her name was Jeannine Clarke, Garrison Clarke's wife.

    It was one of my first and best wins other than "hard TRs" (or "TRs done the hard way", (not pro TRs)) which had much the same effect but lasted for 3 or 4 months.

    say what you will I was young and impressionable all that came after was never quite as fun. I was out by early 1977.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2010
  3. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    You might could get the same mental effects by
    1. hyperventilating
    2. chanting "Oohmmm" for hours in an eastern buddhist monastery
    3. hypnosis
    4. having powerful magnets attached to your head.
  4. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    You know, every time I see this heading I get images of "capital punishment".
  5. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    This explains the joy of a good auditing session.

    I had many like this.
  6. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I think you've got the idea. :)
  7. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Just understand that this is a cult pseudo-science.

    At the bottom of Dianetics is the notion of an "engram".
    This has been debunked a long time ago.
  8. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Yeah, all of the techniques can be done without a meter, with the exception probably of assessments or correction lists, though they CAN be done without a meter.

    There was a time, in the early sixties, where meters were illegal to use. So Scientology went ahead and audited without them. They are interesting biofeedback machines, but they are only a supplement. One can audit any of the Dianetics or Scientology major grades without them. OT Levels, probably not so much. Those are mostly following ghost reads on fantasy anyway, though, IMO. The grades and dianetics stuff can be okay with people who have the intention to help outside of an organization dedicated to enslaving you, but I'd steer clear unless you really know what you're about, and what the pitfalls that Ron doesn't tell you about (but old-school Freudian analysts are hip to) are, and how to avoid them. It's not a science. It's an art-form.
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    From my reading:
    And I also knew about this when I was on staff in the 1970s.
  10. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I don't understand why you preceded this with "No". Sounds like it agreed with what I wrote. In the fifties, it might have been about Mathison. In the early sixties, it was about the FDA seizing all the meters with longshoremen, and forbidding their further use.

    "On January 4, 1963, more than one hundred E-meters were seized by US marshals at the "Founding Church of Scientology" building, now known as the L. Ron Hubbard House, located in Washington, D.C. The church was accused of making false claims that the devices effectively treated some 70 percent of all physical and mental illness. The FDA also charged that the devices did not bear adequate directions for treating the conditions for which they were recommended.[13][14]"
  11. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Because most of the auditing that I can think of was done metered, or at least meter checked afterward, like objectives. Thinking that the e-meter was not needed is not historically correct, in ACTUAL practice, EXCEPT for the period of time when Hubbard had the e-meter ownership fight with Mathison. I wanted to make this clear to anyone reading this thread.
  12. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Oh: well, I can tell you that after I left the Church, I audited several people, and was audited by several, with no meter. While the Church will insist upon it, as it adds to the "con" by investing magic in the meter, and also lengthens the runway to actually doing any auditing, thereby extracting more money from the mark before they ever go in session and either "experience the magic", or leave because they think it's bunk.

    You are right, in the Church, and in most "formal scientology" freezone application, the meter is considered something you simply wouldn't do without: it's part of "Standard Tech" (however Ron or the Church is defining that at any given instant).

    However, the "end phenomena", absent a meter, for a process, remain the same: cognition, improvement of "emotional tone", and "exteriorization" (to use psychology terms, realization/intuitions, positive emotional affect, and extroversion of attention). The meter is interesting, maybe helpful when it's not a distraction, but not necessary to "do Scientology". In fact, Hubbard went on at great length about avoiding "meter-dependence". Early official scientology courses go to some lengths to make sure that you can "audit" basic procedures without a meter present prior to including one, as including a meter is considered added complexity, or "a steeper gradient". Anyone who does an HQS (Hubbard Qualified Scientologist) Course will have audited ARC Straightwire (looking at positive experiences with high affinity, good communication, or strong sense of shared reality) without a meter, along with locationals, and a variety of "assist" procedures.

    I maintain that any of the procedures not specifically designed for meter use (assessments, "canned lists", etc.) could be done without the meter, if one wanted to.
  13. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    Thank you ! It is a very good link.

    A while ago I wrote an article about how people can leave a cult. I think it is a difference to leave Scientology. Now I think, that the Auditing can make Scientologist addicted to Scientology. I want to understand why. Imo the Auditing and it's positive felt results is a big reason not to leave Scientology.

    Normaly the "dependence" in a cult is based e.g. on these things. You have friends and family in a cult, you get seperated from the "rest of the World", it exists a Black and white thinking, the "normal" world is evil, there is group pressure and a form of mind control, you are anything better than the rest of the world, you have to rescue the world etc.. That exists in Scientology too.

    Imo in Scientology it is more than that and now I think it is the Auditing and I want to understand why. Why it is so difficult to leave the Auditings and Scientology. Is it really hypnosis or is it the positive effect based on endorphines....

    I think this thread open a view of this topic from different attitudes. It is very interesting to read this and it helps to understand some things better.
  14. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Well, in order for you to understand this, you have to understand this part of it too: Scientology can help a person turn his life around.

    It is like going into the army to get your education paid for because your family can't afford it. You join up and are given discipline, healthy exercise, good nutrition and training that you can use to get a good job afterward.

    But then, they send you into war, make it illegal for you to refuse orders, make you breathe Agent Orange, step on landmines, and make you swallow a howitzer.

    Scientology always has TWO sides: The constructive and the destructive.

    Its when the destructive side breaks the halfway mark and starts to become 70% and 80% of the experience that is the real problem.

    I think it is possible to have a Scientology experience that is 90% constructive, and 10% destructive.

    You would have to have no church that had income demands, no Sea Org, and no ethics officers. You would also have to have open accounting and state licensing of auditors.

    Then you would have a sustainable Scientology that was more helpful than it was destructive, and likely to stay that way.
  15. nexus100

    nexus100 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Constructive and destructive in what way?
  16. Nicole

    Nicole Silver Meritorious Patron

    Is it really possible to take only the constructive part from Scientology? For taking only the constructive part of Scientology you have to define what is constructive and what is destructive. Imo it is really difficult to define it.

    E.g the constructive part could be more self respect, a self-confident manner, the destructive part could be loosing the own identity.

    I am not really sure, that the postive and the negative part of Scientology could get seperate. But I understand that both parts exists.
  17. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Yes, it really is possible. :) Some of us have been doing it for decades.

    I understand what you mean about some people being addicted to Scientology. This is a real danger. There can be a euphoria involved, and if people aim for the euphoria, rather than for steady improvement of their lives, then they can become "addicted" in the manner that you seem to be envisioning.

    Also, anyone who is looking into Scientology in hopes of obtaining Jedi mind powers, IMO, is delusional. There is a difference between wanting to improve "personal power", feel and do better in life, and then the people who are interested in mind-bending occult power (like LaFayette hisself).
  18. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One


    There are probably many scientologists and Ex-scientologists, both past and present, who think of their time in scientology as mainly constructive.

    They may have experienced some bad times and harmful actions too and it's the harmful aspects which always seem to get the most airplay here.

    Anyone daring to suggest a positive view of scientology is usually shouted down and either learns to keep these ideas to him/herself or departs for more tolerant pastures. That's possibly fair enough given the dreadful nature of the experiences of some who post here. It is, after all, the Ex Scientologists Message Board and we're *mostly* done with anything scientological and have no interest in furthering its cause.

    That being said, there are probably many who took what was constructive in scientology and made the most of it. They either didn't buy into the destructive identity molding or else quickly regained their own sense of self once they'd decided to cease buying into it.

    For whatever reason some seem to find this very hard to believe.
  19. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    It's possible, but then it wouldn't be Scientology anymore; it would be another subject.

    Scientology has always presented the constructive part as the true Scientology, and has always had, and used, a collection of people who honestly believed that to be so.
  20. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    This whole idea to only apply the constructive parts of Scientology could actually work.

    If that was done, only wins would result.

    Anyone not having wins would simply be declared so the constructive scientologists could live in total arc and theta....