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death by auditing

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by MrNobody, Oct 11, 2010.

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  1. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    The experiment (I know of only one) only tested Hubbard's hyperbolic claims about memory, rather than testing whether or not there was a therapeutic effect of any kind. It was very small sample-size, IMO, as well.
     
  2. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    There are a few academic studies available, just a google search away if you can bring yourself to look. Here's one from 1951 - nothing much has changed, really:
    This one is a report on an actual experiment should academic papers not be specifically acceptable in this particular conversation.

     
  3. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Academic study is not the same thing as an experiment. I've looked rather extensively, thanks. Yes, Hubbard was a predator on people's times of broken spirit. Nothing new there.
     
  4. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    Yep, true. I can understand Hubbard's reluctance in regard to scientific experiments to measure results, but what about the FZ/Indie movement - do you know? A successful outcome would do them a power of good and needn't involve too much. An independent IQ test prior to a sustained period of auditing and then a follow-up independent IQ test to measure the difference could certainly lend much needed credibility, not to mention PR/marketing possibilities.
     
  5. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I don't think IQ actually changes, except incidentally, due to auditing. I think people's IQs DO change, in other words, but not because of auditing.

    I think the things that should be tested (and testable) and that would be worthwhile investigating would be applicability to emotional distress regarding a topic, or depression scales, anxiety scales, etc. I do think that auditing can decrease depression and anxiety, in other words, though the Church probably wouldn't use those words.

    I would not expect FZ scios to do scientific testing, simply because they are not learning institutions, they don't hold PhDs themselves, and in order for it to be considered valid, it would have to be "peer reviewed". Who is their peer? Other FZ scios? Would you trust their outcome studies?
     
  6. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on


    Same mofo R-factor as Scientology...
    (2:45)

    "Yo know yo ass is doomed!"
     
  7. pleasant chatting with you olska

    Cute?
    You think I’m kidding?
    Live right and even your small crimes can generate good copy.
    Here’s a good example:
    “Cowboy Bob” no longer walks among us and not only was the incident in question in the papers, the New York tabloids had something of a field day with it so I’m only slightly bending The Code to write this up.
    He spent a couple years in The Tombs for it and after some legal maneuvering did a plea bargain and got out on time served.
    Cowboy was an American Original, A colorful character of the old west. I knew him in the Haight where he spent the last ten years of his life hiding out from the warrant Arizona had on him for the two tons of pot he’d been storing for the Mexican mafia back in the 90’s. When he was 16 his stepfather took him to the carnival one day and come evening he told him he could come home or stay there and it was off to the races.
    He’d had his finger in on carving a little piece if history. Most of you know the Buffalo Springfield hit that starts out “There’s something happening here. What it is ain’t exactly clear… “ that was inspired by the L.A. hippie riots of 1965 which were a fairly peaceful protest about police brutality until some genius asked Bob for advice. He was standing outside a Sunset Strip nightclub called Pandora’s Box sipping a beer watching some goofy longhairs out in the street and he asked what they were doing. One of them came over and said they were trying to stop traffic. He told them they weren’t going to stop anyone like that so the kid asked “well what should we do?” Cowboy said “you see the bus over there?” kid said “yeah” Cowboy said” you see that big metal flap in the back?” kid said “yeah” Cowboy said “go open up that flap and in the left hand corner you’ll see a black runner hose. Take a knife and cut that hose out. That will disable the hydraulics and it won’t go nowhere.” Kid runs off, does it, comes running back with the hose in his hand and says “now what?” Cowboy says” you see that cop car over there?” Kid says “yeah” “ well take that hose and siphon some gas out of one of these parked cars, pour it in the window and light it up” Kid runs off and does it, runs back grinning and says “now what?” Cowboy drains his bottle and says “I’m done with my beer. It’s your riot. Have fun,” and walks off. Cowboy never was much into politics.
    I used to give him shelter in my van sometimes when it would rain and we’d talk and of course I’m an auditor so mostly I’d listen. I’m awfully good about staying away from inval and eval but this was one time I got judgmental.
    When Cowboy’s cousin went off to Vietnam he kicked down his Harley and he was soon riding with the Pagans. They had a clubhouse over in the East Village a couple blocks north of the Angels clubhouse. He was alone on the second floor one day when the Nomads staged a raid. They stormed in guns drawn and got the drop on the boys downstairs. They bagged up their guns and their money and their dope and their dynamite and as they were leaving set the place on fire. Cowboy rushed down put out the fire and unhooked his pals.
    He knew where to find the leader of the raid. The guy was training to be a hairdresser and the next day Cowboy walked into his school and hauled him out. He took him to an abandoned building nearby and tied him up with the same cord he had cut off his amigos the day before. Then he took an industrial size can of lighter fluid and poured it on him, took out his Zippo, gave it a flick and tossed it in.
    That was too much for me and I told him so. “No, Cowboy,” I said softly. “that’s wrong and you should know better. You don’t toss in your Zippo, man. You take a rag, dip it in the lighter fluid, light the rag and toss it in. Then you put the Zippo back in your pocket.”
     
  8. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Tsk tsk tsk -- isn't there something in the tech about getting off others' overts and withholds? :coolwink:
     
  9. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    No, of course not.

    Increased intelligence is one of the benefits claimed and would be easy to test. There are a range of other cognifitive function testing regimes and psychometric measures which could be applied by an indepent authority before and after auditing. I suspect the results would indicate little if any improvement. But, if the FZ/Indie movement are going to persist in meddling with the minds of innocents, the least they could do is make some sort of effort to prove they are doing no harm.
     
  10. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Actually, I suspect that if people were getting auditing regularly, on the LOWER BRIDGE stuff, that the psychometrics would show steady improvement, given that they were not also members of the Church of Scientology (which actively cuts them off from society, from real feedback, etc.), though I don't think they would necessarily change in a uniform manner. The test would be difficult, I think, because different people will change in different ways, depending on what sorts of charge they have, if they have any.
     
  11. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    At an individual level, for sure. But aggregated results show trending and after a study it would be immediately apparent whether or not auditing as a therapeutic tool has a positive, neutral or detrimental effect. I wouldn't be on this bandwagon if auditors were clear in their relations with the public that their activities were entirely spiritual, that would be fine. Instead, we have all sorts of false and outlandish claims desperate people might take at face value and end up in greater suffering.
     
  12. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    Both links provided interesting reading, and while I am now somewhat loathe to defend "the tech", the experiment as conducted only involved one subject, and also involved "digging" for something that may have proven completely irrelevant to the life of the pc.

    While the actual physics passage that was used was not revealed, I really don't think that having E=m*c^2 engramatically implanted in my brain is going to have either a positive nor negative effect on my thinking, and if during auditing I had discovered someone "reciting" a physics text I would have seriously wondered WFT was going on!