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Degrees of harm

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Emma, Sep 26, 2007.

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  1. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    Thanks for your replies! :)

    Although it looks like I was too confining in my categories, one thing has become clearer to me.

    Those who got the most "personally & intimately" involved in Scn, for whatever reason, feel the most betrayal. I suppose that is logical in hindsight, but it had never occured to me before.

    Those who were viewing Scientology as just "something interesting" or "something to study" don't feel the same sting as those who made it their lives.

    The other point to this is: Those who made it a part of themselves probably have a harder time recognising or accepting the con. They have too much invested to simply walk away or look at it from a practical viewpoint without the accompanying anger & betrayal. My ex husband falls into this category. He simply refuses to read anything entheta. After 30 years in Scn he can't accept that it might all have been an elaborate scam.
  2. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    There are also individual racists "who are not evangelical and who do not hurt people," and there are individual radical religious fundamentalists adhering to various forms of dogma "who are not evangelical and who do not hurt people," there are individual believers and small groups of believers in the doctrines of eugenics as well as dozens of other doctrines, dogmas, and belief systems "who are not evangelical and who do not hurt people."

    Those "people who study Scn" (either within or away from the CofS) to whom you refer, "who are not evangelical and who do not hurt people" do not now, at this time, comprise a political power based on scientology beliefs.

    Get it?
  3. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    Maybe you should have him clay demo:

    "Cut your losses".

  4. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Geeze Mick, After reading your story about being declared while your wife on the RPF and those two children booted out the front door, I really can understand your anger, and your dissapointment.

    Until I started reading these forums I didn't have a clue what many other people had experienced.

    I don't think the people who are upset, dismayed, dissapointed and angry are wrong. I just think they all have a story .

    Sometimes I am truly shocked at the brutality in the name of "putting ethics in on the planet".

    I hope not to offend anybody by my next statment. but I knew things were not that great when I decided not to be part of that group, but I did not have a clue how things were and how much worse things were going to get.

    If I did have any power in the Church, the first thing I would do is to start reaching out to people like Mick and his family. Pay for the lost wages, the injustice, try to give back or remedy the trauma put on families like that .

    There is no qual in the Church, except for auditors in training.

    But the Church very well could be correcting the injustices and harm inflicted on people and taking responsibility if only they could care about actual people, people that invested in that world.

    We all were investors. The public, the staff from missions on up.

    It seems the people in charge really cannot "Spot a source".

    They think they are the only source, the ones with the uniforms and papers and in baskets. A desk to sit at makes you source.

    The one thing I can say in everyone's favor that is here, is that we had enough integrity or luck or good sense to fall out of that fold when we did. It seems it has become a suppressive group.
  5. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Sorry, too late. Emma has already taken over that position.

    Kidding aside, the answer to suppression of Scientology is simply to practice knowing how to know correctly with full self-determinism. The seeds of that are already sown in the field outside the Church of Scientology.

    This ESMB is an excellent example of that. I believe that out of all those, who are participating on this board, will come the answer to the suppression of knowing how to know.

    The future of Scientology is going to be determined by those on this board.

    LRH's Scientology has simply been a kick in the ass of the lethargy that took over the field of philosophy over past couple of centuries. The field of philosophy is definitely going to be revitalized now.

  6. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    What must have been the purpose toward third and fourth dynamic which was ignited by Scientology in each one of us?

    Can we get back to that purpose outside the Church of Scientology?

  7. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Scientology did not "ignite" a purpose toward "third and fourth dynamic" in me. I already had "purpose" regarding interactions with and hopes for the future of other human beings and other life forms and conditions on earth BEFORE my encounter with scientology.

    One person whose lead I would be likely to follow, and whose ideas I would use as jumping-off points for developing further ideas whether alone or in conjunction with others, in regards to defining "purpose" and direction and practical solutions for bettering life on earth is Buckminster Fuller, whose book Critical Path is a good summary, and is NOT scientology.

    There is another author whose ideas on management (what you would call the "third dynamic") I much admire and believe offer good practical solutions for bettering life on earth -- name escapes me at the moment -- will post later.

    Here we are on the "ex"-scientologist discussion forum -- seems like a good place to bring up some OTHER PRACTICES which might help people retire the lame horse, bring in a fresh one, and move on??
  8. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Strangely enough all purposes are after the fact additives.

    There is a divine attraction force - that is to be fully present - and fully be self - connected to others who are fully present and fully themselves.:omg:
  9. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    That's true, Vinaire. It stirs up a lot of emotion.
  10. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    I think that underneath anything and everything there is the desire to complete incomplete cycles of action that were started eons ago.

    Third and fourth dynamic purposes may come from those natural tensions.

    After all, we all are part of an ancient brotherhood.

  11. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hah! That is a very good question Vinny! If I answer it I will really look like an asshole, but here I go.

    I was a ward of the state, the state owned me.

    I wanted to become an imancipated minor but I had to get my mother to agree to take me back, then sign the papers for me to become imancipated.

    I was very good with logistics, even at 15.

    I was in a private school by scholarship because of my high IQ and a scholarship, transported straight from juvinile hall in the South Bronx in a limosine to the boarding school financed by the Jewish Board of Guardians. They thought I was going to be a rocket scientist or something if only I could be saved. They couldn't stand to see a fourteen year old skipped three grades with an IQ close to 200 nodding on heroin on the street corner.

    By then I really did not give a fuck about anything on planet earth or beyond. I had a romance going on with heroin.

    Anyway, I was in the private school for some months and the poster child for all the contributors of my scholarship.

    I stayed straight for those months but only because I didn't have any other options.

    I really wasn't dangerous and I couldn't stand to be locked up again in a facility just outside of Harlem where I was the only white person and had to beat the hell out of someone at least once a day to make it to the cafeteria to eat.

    You may ask yourself, "Where do these Sea Org members come from?"

    I came from the ghetto and yet, years later was one of the only people out of hundreds that could really have a conversation with someone wealthy involved with Scientology.


    At 15 I knew I was elligable to become an imancipated minor, yet I was owned by the State (my mother signed me over).

    I had to go back on to my mother, to sign the papers to take back custody, to sign my imancipation papers to get me out of this whole juvinile ownership thing. I didn't even know my mother at that time as I had grown up in foster homes with remote relatives.

    So I called my mother and at the time she was involved with Scientology.

    She agreed to take me out if I would complete the HQS course.

    At that time I was totally anti Scientology.

    This is why I never tell my story...wherever I start from there is always something far more scandalous right before.

    Anyway, to make a long story short, I agreed to do HQS for legal papers.

    It just happened that I started on the tr's and went exterior.

    And that is when I became interested.

    My purpose was to get high at the time.

    The tr's and auditing saved my life.

    To tell you the truth I got a lot higher than I ever dreamed possible.

    I still don't have any third and fourth dynamic purposes.

    I don't think I ever did.

    I've never been a groupie.

    I am still at "It's every man for himself".

    And I think I totally estimate the correct estimate of reason for the condition this planet is in.

    I mean, the ship really is sinking.

    The fifth reason people get involved are people like me who are just experience junkies.

    And is pretty much all I am in this game yet, I managed to get through the whole experience so I don't put myself down.

    I've helped a lot of people since then, and raised some kids.

    I wouldn't be here today if it were not for those people who helped me, either my kids.

    So for those of you that feel it meant nothing the work you did, the money you paid, the time you spent, it saved my life.

    If nobody thanked you yet, I do, with all of my heart.

    The only reason I keep posting on these forums is to encourage other people to keep on.

    I just don't understand why a fuck up like me can do it all the way when the rest are so godanmed deserving.

    If I am not 3rd or 4rth dynamic orientated,....I still care to repay my debts and care about the person in front of me.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2007
  12. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    That was a beautiful confront, TI.

    Probably, I should broaden my questions as follows:

    What purpose got awaken, was facilitated, or became possible to be accomplished because one encountered Scientology?

    Is it possible to accomplish that purpose, if not already accomplished?

  13. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I've seen you demonstrate these in spades. You even say so in this post.

    Makes me even more proud that part of my bloodline is jewish. :)
  14. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Please run the dichotomy!

    What purpose that you had awaken, and was in action before it became stopped, slowed or nullified because one encountered Scientology?

    Is it now possible to rehabilitate and accomplish that purpose?
  15. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    TI, your posts are ALWAYS so touching and cool. I love it. makes me proud to be your sis!!!

    :coolwink: :coolwink: :coolwink:
  16. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    I am just so proud of my daughters. They hard as steel inside but soft as silk outside... just like my wife.

    They don't take after me, I suppose. :D

  17. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    I should probably be on some forum where people address survivors guilt.

  18. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Only insofar as I think that's purely in the eye of the beholder. It's also another generalization and, as such, is imprecise.