ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Did Scientology have a positive impact on their lives?

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Isene, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    I took a step back and looked at the impact Scientology has had on 50 close friends and connections. I grouped them into positive/neutral/negative impact, got help from Anette in beutifying the charts and did a blog post on the results. Since the charts are essential, I didn't just copy the blog text here and started adding the pics and such. And being a lazy, self-promoting blogger on the fringe of the Internet, I simply provide a link:

    http://isene.me/2013/07/28/scientology-positive-negative/
     
  2. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Hummm. Well Geir, without knowing the values you used to assign these categories it is hard to say that you have done much more than graphed an opinion. I think you should do a phase II wherein you have a survey with the same questions you asked your self. If you could get Mike Rinder and Marty to include it on their blogs as well as here, at the Entheta Slingers Message Board you might have an interesting graph to show. Jeff Hawkins did something similar on his board a few years ago - it got a lot of responses.

    Mimsey
     
  3. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    I have found that as time and psychological work/therapy heals wounds, that people tend to remember the good times, and to take whatever good there is to be had, out of terrible experiences. When someone reaches that point in recovery, they realize they have turned a corner, or brought the slow lumbering ship 'about'. That never excuses the evil done - the evil continuing. It is just human nature to survive, learn, adapt, and move on. And to be free.

    Scno/co$ is not free. It is inherent in the system/tech, to enslave minds and souls. :scnsucks:
     
  4. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Maybe a 'graphed opinion', but I largely agree.. That's close to the 'impression' I get when I do what Geir did in my head.. But those 20% that had improvements? - Well, I think that percentage is about 20% too optimistic..

    But I agree that about 20% would 'claim' improvement. (They would also still be scientologists..)

    :unsure:
     
  5. anonomog

    anonomog Gold Meritorious Patron

    In a nutshell.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Don't look for something that might be broken someday and should be fixed now.

    If you've hit rock bottom and the only way is up, Scientology will help you. (But so will howling at the full moon while wearing polka dot underwear. The people around you will still think you are nuts, but polka dot underwear is waaaay cheaper.)
     
  6. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Bullshit. I got improvement, ( When you are at the bottom, most anything is up), and I sure as hell am not still a Scn'ist.


    phenomanon aka Challenge
     
  7. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    I would say this "survey" is more subjective than anything else.

    A completely objective evaluation may not be possible. What criteria do you use? Increase in income vs. cost of doing Scientology? Who's to say their income wouldn't have increased anyway, especially as most people's do as they move on in their careers?

    I came into Scientology a mess. They helped me get through it, but who's to say some other practice wouldn't have done so too, perhaps even better? The last big gain I had was from OT 3 (and yes, I do believe it to be literally true). After that it was all downhill, until I got out and into the Freezone.

    And I suppose many people still have the habit of shouting their wins but keeping their loses to themselves. I know I do.

    As far as 14% having their lives ruined -- I can believe this. The cult will never tell someone that maybe they'd be better off taking a break and getting their lives in order -- it's always the next level will fix it, mortgage your home and sign up today! The only way out is to simply walk away, or if need be, blow.

    Just sayin'

    Helena
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  8. Bill

    Bill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Interesting. I think it would be fascinating if you looked at 50 close friends and connections who were never Scientologists and evaluated them using whatever standards you used for the Scientologists. How many experienced improvements in life, how many remained the same and how many were worse off now. The analysis would be valuable as a comparison.

    Bill
     
  9. Freeminds

    Freeminds Bitter defrocked apostate

    For a simple test that isn't subjective, maybe we should contrast the lifespan of Scientology victims with the average lifespan for the region. People who get involved with the Scientology UFO cult seem to have a depressing habit of dying young. I know that they're told to believe that they'll come back, but... well, nobody has yet so it seems kind of dumb to waste your life on Hubbard and his fantasies.
     
  10. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    I don't personally think I even know an ex who has not had to completely rebuild their life after leaving - usually decades after their peers have already had a head start. Most exes I know are relatively poor as a result. I guess Geir just moves in different circles.

    :notworthy:
     
  11. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Helena, having a break is such an unscientological concept. I'm going to have a holiday one of these days. I've had time off work to catch up on paperwork or to clean and sort things out, but never really to have a holiday just as that. One day I'll sit on a beach again!
     
  12. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors



    That is all it was meant to be - a nice graphing of my opinion :hattip:

    Including the missing volcanos?
     
  13. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging

    There is always a subjective element in surveys, this type is by its very nature samplings of opinions. It is in fact a very useful tool, it takes individual subjective reflections of the the effect and the affects the cult had on them and provides an objective graphic. It speaks reams in my opinion.

    Thanks for taking the time to provide this Gier and Annette. More, please.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013
  14. Sidney18511

    Sidney18511 Patron with Honors

    I have found many "things" that will expand, improve, bring happiness or add comfort to an individuals life are not some mysterious secrets known only by a "special" group who have all the answers for sale, but common sense activities that people just normally drift to. There's no real need for digging and searching and studying the works of some "enlightened more knowledgeable human" in order to live a satisfied happy life.

    Some examples: higher education, owning a home, raising children, getting a well paying job, finding someone to love who loves you back, going to a church, taking a vacation, buying a new car, laughing, loving and even crying.

    In my opinion, spending so much time and money searching for "something" more (although not a bad thing) is just not necessary to live a full, happy, satisfied life.

    The secrets of life? I'll tell you the secrets of life.
    Get up in the morning and go to work, come home and eat dinner and spend time with your family then go to bed.
    Get up the next morning. Rinse. Repeat.

    Ps. I don't mean to insult any "seekers of spiritual knowledge" so please don't take it that way..
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  15. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Marty says the same. No longer Scn. I don't.

    You at the bottom is hard to grok. :)

    love
     
  16. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    I include here an answer I gave on my blog:

    It is easy enough to see if a person fares better or worse in life. Just like it was so easy to rank your fellow students in your class in the various subjects when you were 10. I remember it very well – when I was 10, Tom and Tore was best in physical sports, Stine was the best in Norwegian, myself best in maths, etc. And I could easily have ranked the whole class from to to bottom in any subject. And then when we get older, we’d like to think such evaluations are so much more complex, etc. But it is not.

    Scientology is there to “make the able more able”, remember?

    Well, from my experience as related in this OP, I can say that if you are “able” when you get into Scientology, you stand a greater chance of getting your life ruined than become significantly more able through it.

    Some more details:

    When I report people having gotten Awesome results, I can see that they are doing much better in life. Of the five I have seen, two came in as drug addicts, one in danger of losing his life – and they ended up with decent, normal lives. One was on the verge of mental break-down and is now doing great. Another was in serious mental trouble and is now leading a normal life. The last one was leading a good life and is now doing great.

    When I report people having been ruined in Scientology, I see people whose life is in shambles. One came in doing great and is now in financial ruin and with little spiritual or mental gains. One was quite successful and ended up homeless and as a drug addict. Another was doing good and ended up in a mental institution. Yet another was leading a normal life and is now a wreck and has also been treated in a mental institution. Another was leading a normal life and got financially ruined almost living on the street. Another attempted suicide. And the last one ending up with serious mental and physical issues.

    When I report having seen negative results, they range from financial troubles to mental issues to having difficulties leading a normal life.

    When I report people with neutral impact from Scientology, I see both good and bad results in the person’s life – like the person report being more happy but struggling financially, or earning more and living better while being sad or troubled mentally, etc.

    When I report people with positive impact from Scientology, I see people who are doing clearly better in life – being more happy, more spiritual, doing well in their families, enjoying the life they want to enjoy, etc.

    It is actually not that difficult to see if a person has had gains or losses in Scientology. If you let yourself look honestly at the people you know well.
     
  17. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    I believe the reason why almost every person that gets into Scientology leaves, or why no amazing people seem to emerge from Scientology or why Scientology doesn’t seem to able to produce much visible results, is that Scientology usually doesn’t handle what the person wants handled, it handles what it thinks the person should handle.
     
  18. Mike Laws

    Mike Laws Patron Meritorious

    Gier,

    This is a fascinating concept, how about putting it into a more scientific form, rather than your personal analysis of 50 people. Actual questions that people can answer, perhaps with a numerical value that show how they feel, but also captures survival skills.

    I say this like it is easy, LOL. Thinking about it the questions would have to be very well designed to be able to capture things like kids born in who knew nothing else and had no other experiences, or simply people growing up and maturing; the world at large is full of people screw ups as kids that did great as they matured, and super star kids who failed later in life.

    The same survey would probably need a control of "real world" statistics to be meaningful.
     
  19. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'd be willing to help. My MBA concentration was in Market Research.
     
  20. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    This is a good idea. But to do this requires some heavy-duty questionnaire/survey science done by some heavy weight personae in that science - or lest we run into the usual bickering about the method used and the results gets discredited.

    I can't muster enough interest in this to go beyond a mere graphing of my own observations and turning that into a blog post and the subsequent link whoring here.

    If this is enough to inspire someone with more interest in this, then that's neat :)

    BTW; How does your own observations compare to mine?